The Forgotten Part Of Normandy

[Stryder50]

Well I guess she is a rhino now since she doesn't like trump, so maybe she'll stop parroting absolute idiocy these days. Good for her.

I don't recall her ever being a Democrat or parroting the idiocy of the Democrat platform and agenda. Nor did she ever parrot the idiocy of the Clinton's, Obama's, or Biden's.

 

[Stryder50]

Every professor, author, 'historian'.....fears authoring anything that contradicts the Liberal orthodoxy.
Their careers and status would be in jeopardy.

And you swallow every lie because you are too lazy and too stupid to do your own research.



In an insightful analysis, John A. Garraty compared Roosevelt’s New Deal with aspects of the Third Reich: a strong leader; an ideology stressing the nation, the people and the land; state control of economic and social affairs; and the quality and quantity of government propaganda. Garraty, “The New Deal, National Socialism, and the Great Depression,” American Historical Review, vol. 78 (1973) p. 907ff.

1. Garraty reminds that to compare is not the same as to equate. Yet, many still find Garraty’s analysis too hot to handle.

Victor Davis Hansen is a notable exception. Light years above the libturd crud our acadamia is filled with.

Victor Davis Hanson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

MSN

www.msn.com

Thomas Sowell is another notable exception. However, since he is Black and a Conservative, he is what the Libturds and Leftist call an OREO.

Thomas Sowell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stryder50]

You're the one parotting propaganda lol, I have a Masters in History based on this stuff, with a French twist...Vive la France! lol

And a HUGE pseudo-liberal Leftist (socialist) as well. Hardly objective at all.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Victor Davis Hansen is a notable exception. Light years above the libturd crud our acadamia is filled with.

Victor Davis Hanson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

MSN

www.msn.com

Thomas Sowell is another notable exception. However, since he is Black and a Conservative, he is what the Libturds and Leftist call an OREO.

Thomas Sowell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Absolutely!

He's on the short list with the man I mentioned, John A. Garraty.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You're the one parotting propaganda lol, I have a Masters in History based on this stuff, with a French twist...Vive la France! lol

Soooo......why is it that you are jejune when it comes to understanding history and politics????


Could it be that you are worthless in judging what your mentors shoved down your throat?????


Everything I post is linked, sourced and documented,......and I am never wrong.


Here, watch me prove it: you are a dunce.

See.....never wrong.

 

[Stryder50]

Mainly because he was elected to do what he did, it is always tough for the Democrats when they get in to fix all the crap that stupid greedy lying Republicans have caused.... They are always good for a corrupt bubble and bust every damn time. Eisenhower was a Democrat as much as he was a republican.... Democracy is the difference. Democracy is good, what you want is crap, BFM.

Correction:
'...it is always tough for the Democrats when they get in to fix all the crap that stupid greedy lying Republicans have caused.... They are always good for a corrupt bubble and bust every damn time. '

Witness the past three Democrat POTUSs as clear examples.
All three enter "politics" immediate after finishing college. Have no real world, free-enterprise, private sector business experience. As for "greedy", each seems to have amassed a personal fortune far beyond what the salaries of those positions could have provided.

It's hard to believe such stupid and lying scum could be worth the "speaker's fees" they frequently get. But then that's a ruse and scam to evade things like campaign contribution limits or outright bribes/payola.

Democracy is too often mob rule with NO respect for minority rights. Be those rights of personal liberty, economy freedom, or any others in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Democracy made slavery, segregation, Tom Crow laws, and many other infringements possible. Democracy as handled by the Democrats and libturd Leftists is crap.

The American Form Of Government​

 

[Stryder50]

Thank God for the Italians delaying the Germans in the Balkans and North Africa LOL. The Germans beat the Russians but not Winter. I'll tell you when you tell me something factual I don't know about the 20th century in Europe....

North Africa only involved a couple of divisions initially and though a couple of months before the attack on Russia, was barely 2% of the German Army at the time.

The Balkans again involved on a small fraction of the Wehrmacht and proved essential securing of the South flank for the Russian attack. Where Germany really botched things was the attack on Crete.

 

[Stryder50]

Another giant conspiracy? You are out of your mind....Arrest the criminals, they aren't Dems duh....

Most criminals are Democrats and vote Democratic.
Or is it most Democrats are criminals.
Hard to tell at times.

 

[Stryder50]

Everytime you post your hatred of America you make me want to vomit.

Many of us could say the same about your socialist/communist spin on hating America as founded and wanting to make it another failed Cuba like country.

 

[westwall]

1. That was that there didn't have to be a Normandy. It was at the insistence of Joseph Stalin, and Franklin Roosevelt's constant grabbing-the-ankles, that there was a Normandy.
"The estimated total battle casualties for the United States were 135,000, including 29,000 killed and 106,000 wounded and missing. United States casualties are taken from Office of the Adjutant General, Army Battle Casualties and Nonbattle Deaths in World War II: Final Report, 7 December 1941–31 December 1946, page 92.
Estimated Battle Casualties during the Normandy Invasion on ...
https://www.britannica.com › story › estimated-battle-casu...



2. Stalin ordered his vassal, FDR, to make the attack on Fortress Europa as far West as possible so that the Red Army could occupy fully half of Europe post war.
We already owned Italy, and the correct strategy would have been straight up into Germany.




3. Stalin insisted on a 'second front,' the assumption being that Hitler's attack on the Soviet homeland, June 21, 1941, was the 'first front.'

Further, Stalin insisted....demanded .....that the second front be as far west in Europe as possible....so that at war's end, the Red Army could occupy and control all of Eastern Europe.

This meant that, although the Allies had control of Italy and could advance north into Germany, the Adriatic second front was not acceptable to Stalin....only Normandy, France, was.






4. Now....what could have made him change his mind, and agree with Stalin/Roosevelt?

" In December1943, it was announced that Eisenhower would be Supreme Allied Commander in Europe."Military career of Dwight D. Eisenhower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suddenly, the Roosevelt/Stalin choice, Normandy, became exemplary.





5. How about Eisenhower's assessment at the time?

....until FDR bribed him with another star, Eisenhower disagreed with the Stalin/FDR plan to attack from the far West, Normandy.

"Italy was the correct place in which to deploy our main forces and the objective should be the Valle of the PO.In no other area could we so well threaten the whole German structure including France, the Balkans and the Reich itself. Here also our air would becloser to vital objectives in Germany."
FRUS: The conferences at Cairo and Tehran, 1943, p.359-361
That report was published in "Foreign Relations of the United States" in 1961
Eisenhower's statement was to an audience in November 26, 1943....



Franklin Roosevelt and his Democrats......the greatest friend the Bolsheviks had........and have.

Just ask Hillary were she got that dossier.

Normandy was a much better avenue of attack than Italy. Northern Italy is particulary good for defensive operations.

France, on the other hand, is wide open field running.

As was shown when Patton started his run.

 

[Stryder50]

1. That was that there didn't have to be a Normandy. It was at the insistence of Joseph Stalin, and Franklin Roosevelt's constant grabbing-the-ankles, that there was a Normandy.
"The estimated total battle casualties for the United States were 135,000, including 29,000 killed and 106,000 wounded and missing. United States casualties are taken from Office of the Adjutant General, Army Battle Casualties and Nonbattle Deaths in World War II: Final Report, 7 December 1941–31 December 1946, page 92.
Estimated Battle Casualties during the Normandy Invasion on ...
https://www.britannica.com › story › estimated-battle-casu...



2. Stalin ordered his vassal, FDR, to make the attack on Fortress Europa as far West as possible so that the Red Army could occupy fully half of Europe post war.
We already owned Italy, and the correct strategy would have been straight up into Germany.




3. Stalin insisted on a 'second front,' the assumption being that Hitler's attack on the Soviet homeland, June 21, 1941, was the 'first front.'

Further, Stalin insisted....demanded .....that the second front be as far west in Europe as possible....so that at war's end, the Red Army could occupy and control all of Eastern Europe.

This meant that, although the Allies had control of Italy and could advance north into Germany, the Adriatic second front was not acceptable to Stalin....only Normandy, France, was.






4. Now....what could have made him change his mind, and agree with Stalin/Roosevelt?

" In December1943, it was announced that Eisenhower would be Supreme Allied Commander in Europe."Military career of Dwight D. Eisenhower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suddenly, the Roosevelt/Stalin choice, Normandy, became exemplary.





5. How about Eisenhower's assessment at the time?

....until FDR bribed him with another star, Eisenhower disagreed with the Stalin/FDR plan to attack from the far West, Normandy.

"Italy was the correct place in which to deploy our main forces and the objective should be the Valle of the PO.In no other area could we so well threaten the whole German structure including France, the Balkans and the Reich itself. Here also our air would becloser to vital objectives in Germany."
FRUS: The conferences at Cairo and Tehran, 1943, p.359-361
That report was published in "Foreign Relations of the United States" in 1961
Eisenhower's statement was to an audience in November 26, 1943....



Franklin Roosevelt and his Democrats......the greatest friend the Bolsheviks had........and have.

Just ask Hillary were she got that dossier.

From another and similar thread;
The marines at Normandy
EXCERPT Post #25
...
After subduing Sicily, "toe" of Italy was right there and another "hop" over to go for. Alas, the Italian mainland is a narrow and long peninsula with a mountainous core and thin bands of coastal low, flat lands on West and East side. Not much room to engage maneuver warfare tactics for flanking thrusts, the campaign up the 'leg' of Italy was terrain favoring the defender and quickly degenerated into a replay of WWOne trench warfare tactics. A literal 'meat-grinder' for the US and UK troops.

Fighting overland northward up Italy would be slow and costly, so by January 1944 an amphibious flank move was tried with a landing at Anzio. Unfortunately, this "end pass" move was too short beyond the main German line of resistance and quickly blocked by German forces seizing the high-ground around the Allied beach-head, aided by the slow advance of the Allies off the beaches and inland. A might have worked plan that was poorly executed, resulting in major forces trapped for months before being able to break out.

For the most part, Western Allied(USA & UK) campaigning in the Mediterranean ~Italy-Balkans-Greece-(Eastern Europe) was a slow and costly way to attack Axis and Nazi Germany's "soft underbelly".

One option that might have had a major effect at this point in the war would have been to reduce forces on the Italian mainland to a defensive "hold" line of a handful of divisions and instead of a landing at Anzio, do one to the south of France. This would not be the quick drive landing into Paris or Germany, but would have bypassed the gridlock of the Italian geography and been the sort of "deep pass" drive that would be a serious and major distraction to the Axis ~ Germany. It might even have drawn off forces that would be used in Northern France a few months later when Overlord~Normandy landings would have been held.


As for the major/main plan of landing in France, northern coastlines were desired for closeness to Germany and also the prospect of short shipping supply lines and closeness to land air bases to provide air cover. An essential to any large scale amphibious landing operation is the ability to seize and provide major port facilities to offload supplies and reinforcements. Also closeness to land airbases for effective overhead air cover helps, especially since most of the large fleet aircraft carriers are involve in the Pacific part of the war.

While Calais would seem a good place given it being the closest to England, that also made it too obvious and an area of some of the largest German defense efforts/entrenchments. Normandy stuck a balance of being one of the slightly further away locations yet not too far to make a good strike out point for liberating France and driving towards Germany.

While Stalin was pressuring the West ~USA and UK~ to "open a second" front closer to Germany, the main West incentive was to take pressure off the threats to England while liberating as much of Europe as possible and prevent too much from falling into Soviet hands. While FDR and Churchill wanted to work "with" Stalin, they also had their own agendas at odds with Stalin and the goals of international Communism, so it's not quite accurate to say they were Stalin's puppets.

 

[Stryder50]

^^^^
Probably should include this excerpt as well;
...
After Germany's attack into Poland, FDR and some of the USA leadership could see where global war may be on the horizon and the USA needed to build up it's military strength. Japan's conquest and expansions in Eastern Asia also underscored this urgent need. Hence some of the first efforts at "Lend-Lease" as FDR sought to transform the USA into the "Arsenal of Democracy" against Axis Fascism/Tyranny.

By May-June of 1940 with the fall of France the need gained greater urgency and the UK/Britain was a main focus of USA military equipment and supply production to future Allies. Germany's June 1941 attack~invasion upon Russia soon brought the Soviet Union also into the sphere of American(USA) industrial productions of food, weapons, and equipment to aid in resistance to Axis aggressions.

Shortly after Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor in Dec. 1941 and the USA now at war with Japan, Germany, and Italy; FDR and General Marshall, along with many of the USA Joint Staff were eager to attack Germany ASAP, with plans for a hasty landing in France, likely on it's Western coast. Fortunately Churchill and the UK General Staff talked sense into the USA leadership in pointing out it would be some time before the USA had the ground and air forces for such a venture, or the transport shipping and landing craft needed. Among other issues such as lack of training or actual combat experience for USA forces.

Settling upon an initial attack on the fringe of Axis expansion via North Africa landings/invasion turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the USA quickly learned in the next few month it's many shortfalls in training, organization, and combat experience. Not a few set ot lessons, that would take many months ~ year plus to sink in. But enough to realize that a late 1942 landing on mainland Europe would have been a large scale disaster.

Still, as the campaigns of North Africa showed a resolution on the future, there recurred talk of landing in Western-Central Europe sometime in 1943. Again our British allies counseled caution and "not yet" which was begrudgingly accepted by the USA leadership.

With Sicily a "short" hop from Tunisia, the Allies/USA settled on that as the next objective. Following the Axis evacuation of North Africa/Tunisia and as a measure to further clear passage for shipping between Gibraltar and Suez.

 

[Moonglow]

Many of us could say the same about your socialist/communist spin on hating America as founded and wanting to make it another failed Cuba like country.

Hardly but lies are all you and Polivynil Slick deliver.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Normandy was a much better avenue of attack than Italy. Northern Italy is particulary good for defensive operations.

France, on the other hand, is wide open field running.

As was shown when Patton started his run.

Eisenhower said that Italy, straight North was the correct strategy......until he was given another star.


In 1943, before he was offered another star:
"Italy was the correct place in which to deploy our main forces and the objective should be the Valle of the PO. In no other area could we so well threaten the whole German structure including France, the Balkans and the Reich itself. Here also our air would be closer to vital objectives in Germany."
FRUS: The conferences at Cairo and Tehran, 1943, p.359-361
That report was published in "Foreign Relations of the United States" in 1961

Eisenhower's statement was to an audience in November 26, 1943....

" In December 1943, it was announced that Eisenhower would be Supreme Allied Commander in Europe." Military career of Dwight D. Eisenhower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He received his fifth star December 20, 1944....four days after Marshall received his.

 

[westwall]

Eisenhower said that Italy, straight North was the correct strategy......until he was given another star.


In 1943, before he was offered another star:
"Italy was the correct place in which to deploy our main forces and the objective should be the Valle of the PO. In no other area could we so well threaten the whole German structure including France, the Balkans and the Reich itself. Here also our air would be closer to vital objectives in Germany."
FRUS: The conferences at Cairo and Tehran, 1943, p.359-361
That report was published in "Foreign Relations of the United States" in 1961

Eisenhower's statement was to an audience in November 26, 1943....

" In December 1943, it was announced that Eisenhower would be Supreme Allied Commander in Europe." Military career of Dwight D. Eisenhower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He received his fifth star December 20, 1944....four days after Marshall received his.

I have talked to soldiers from both sides. I have walked those battlefields. Italy is horrible.

Take a look at how much we lost just taking Cassino. Repeat that 100 times.

There is ALWAYS another mountain to fight for. There is NEVER a free run to the border.

Italy would have cost us ten times more than Normandy did.

 

[Stryder50]

Some context on Italian Campaign in WWII. (More later after some errands and chores)
...
On 10 July 1943, a combined force of American and British Commonwealth troops invaded Sicily. German generals again took the lead in the defence and, although they lost the island after weeks of bitter fighting, they succeeded in ferrying large numbers of German and Italian forces safely off Sicily to the Italian mainland. On 19 July, an Allied air raid on Rome destroyed both military and collateral civilian structures. With these two events, popular support for the war diminished in Italy.[92]

On 25 July, the Grand Council of Fascism voted to limit the power of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini and handed control of the Italian armed forces over to King Victor Emmanuel III. The next day, Mussolini met with the King, was dismissed as prime minister, and then imprisoned. A new Italian government, led by General Pietro Badoglio and Victor Emmanuel III, took over in Italy. Although they publicly declared that they would keep fighting alongside the Germans, the new Italian government began secret negotiations with the Allies to come over to the Allied side.[93] On 3 September, a secret armistice was signed with the Allies at Fairfield Camp in Sicily. The armistice was publicly announced on 8 September. By then, the Allies were on the Italian mainland.

On 3 September, British troops crossed the short distance from Sicily to the 'toe' of Italy in Operation Baytown. Two more Allied landings took place on 9 September at Salerno (Operation Avalanche) and at Taranto (Operation Slapstick). The Italian surrender meant that the Allied landings at Taranto took place unopposed, with the troops simply disembarking from warships at the docks rather than assaulting the coastline.

Because of the time it took for the new Italian government to negotiate the armistice, the Germans had time to reinforce their presence in Italy and prepare for their defection. In the first weeks of August, they increased the number of divisions in Italy from two to seven and took control of vital infrastructure.[94] Once the signing of the armistice was announced on 8 September, German troops quickly disarmed the Italian forces and took over critical defensive positions in Operation Achse. This included Italian-occupied southeastern France and the Italian-controlled areas in the Balkans. Only in Sardinia, Corsica, and in part of Apulia and Calabria were Italian troops able to hold their positions until the arrival of Allied forces. In the area of Rome, only one infantry division—the Granatieri di Sardegna—and some small armoured units fought with commitment, but by 11 September were overwhelmed by superior German forces.
...

Military history of Italy during World War II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[francoHFW]

Hitler did.


The world has benefitted several times from ideological fanatics overplaying their hand.


Have you noticed the same from the Democrats?


View attachment 676963

Most criminals are Democrats and vote Democratic.
Or is it most Democrats are criminals.
Hard to tell at times.

What do you are trying to say is that blacks who are not Democrats rioted..... Or poverty causes crime and thanks to the GOP mainly minorities are by far the poorest... And get stops four times as often as whites at cetera etcetera. The crime rate is no higher among blacks than whites, just how many are put in prison because they don't have any money. Try taxing the rich etcetera and cheap college and training like every other modern country.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What do you are trying to say is that blacks who are not Democrats rioted..... Or poverty causes crime and thanks to the GOP mainly minorities are by far the poorest... And get stops four times as often as whites at cetera etcetera. The crime rate is no higher among blacks than whites, just how many are put in prison because they don't have any money. Try taxing the rich etcetera and cheap college and training like every other modern country.

This one of the stupidest posts you have ever penned.

And this is in a constellation of truly inane, uneducated and posts rife with prevarication.

You have set a new record, you buffoon.

 

[francoHFW]

This one of the stupidest posts you have ever penned.

And this is in a constellation of truly inane, uneducated and posts rife with prevarication.

You have set a new record, you buffoon.

Sorry about reality. Change the channel and check it out sometime....

 

[francoHFW]

North Africa only involved a couple of divisions initially and though a couple of months before the attack on Russia, was barely 2% of the German Army at the time.

The Balkans again involved on a small fraction of the Wehrmacht and proved essential securing of the South flank for the Russian attack. Where Germany really botched things was the attack on Crete.

2% attacked RUSSIA? Check your figures... The Balkans include Greece and thus Crete..