The Founders Anticipated the Threat of Trump

[Tom Paine 1949]

it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another

Who are you “dissolving your political bands” with? Are you for your state seceding from the U.S.A.? Your County? What about Liberals or Democrats in your own state? … or extended family? What the fuck are you really saying here — besides that you evidently have … “evil cat breath”?

 

[Mac1958]

Authoritarian demagogues like Trump are who The Founding Fathers had in mind when they designed our system. Thankfully, it held, even though MAGA and other craven Republicans tried to subvert it. They'll try another time in 2024 if/when they lose again.

The allegations in the indictment of Donald Trump for conspiring to overturn the election of 2020 represent the American Founders’ nightmare. A key concern of James Madison and Alexander Hamilton was that demagogues would incite mobs and factions to defy the rule of law, overturn free and fair elections and undermine American democracy. “The only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion,” Alexander Hamilton wrote in 1790. “When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper…is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity,” Hamilton warned, “he may ‘ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.’”​

​

The Founders designed a constitutional system to prevent demagogues from sowing confusion and mob violence in precisely this way. The vast extent of the country, Madison said, would make it hard for local factions to coordinate any kind of mass mobilization. The horizontal separation of powers among the three branches of government would ensure that the House impeached and the Senate convicted corrupt presidents. The vertical division of powers between the states and the federal government would ensure that local officials ensured election integrity.​

​

And norms about the peaceful transfer of power, strengthened by George Washington’s towering example of voluntarily stepping down from office after two terms, would ensure that no elected president could convert himself, like Caesar, into an unelected dictator. “The idea of introducing a monarchy or aristocracy into this Country,” Hamilton wrote, “is one of those visionary things, that none but madmen could meditate,” as long as the American people resisted “convulsions and disorders in consequence of the acts of popular demagogues.”​

​

According to the federal indictment issued this week, President Trump attempted to overturn the results of the 2020 election by conspiring to spread such “convulsions and disorders” through a series of knowing lies. The indictment alleges that soon after election day, Trump “pursued unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results,” perpetuating three separate criminal conspiracies: to impede the collection and counting of the ballots, Congress’s certification of the results on Jan. 6, 2021, and the right to vote itself.​

​

The indictment alleges that all three conspiracies involved a concerted effort by Trump and his co-conspirators to subvert the election results using “knowingly false claims of election fraud.” In particular, Trump allegedly “organized fraudulent slates of electors in seven targeted states”; tried to use “the power and authority of the Justice Department to conduct sham election crime investigations”; tried to enlist Vice President Mike Pence “to fraudulently alter the election results”; and, as violence broke out on Jan. 6, redoubled his efforts to “convince Members of Congress to further delay the certification.”​

Essay | The Founders Anticipated the Threat of Trump

This week’s indictment of the former president outlines the sort of demagogic challenge to the rule of law that the Constitution’s architects most feared.

www.wsj.com

I do often wonder what the Founders would think of what has happened here. Yes, they did what they could to safeguard us against it, but I wonder what they would have thought of those who have enabled it. Did they anticipate that so many in Congress would facilitate something like this? And back then, did they imagine that 30% (or whatever it is) of the electorate would fall for it?

Personally, I would be ashamed for them to see this.

 

[Stryder50]

Meaning what, keyboard warrior?

Sedition and insurrection as shown in scores of USA cities during the summer of 2020.

 

[Stryder50]

All you need is credible proof. Nothing yet?

I recall this was the mantra during the five plus years of "Trump Colluded with the Russians to Steal the 2016 Election from Hillary Clinton" when the Regressives/Democrats tried to proven a fabrication and pile of 'rumors'.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I recall this was the mantra during the five plus years of "Trump Colluded with the Russians to Steal the 2016 Election from Hillary Clinton" when the Regressives/Democrats tried to proven a fabrication and pile of 'rumors'.

So let’s just say the Democrats never proved “collusion” — which is not even a crime. WHAT OF IT? Trump still said Putin was a “great man” and that he was “a genius” as he invaded Ukraine, etc.

But what on earth does any or all that have to do with the charges that Donald Trump is being accused of?

More to the point, what does it have to do with the Founding Fathers’ fears and even anticipation that demagogues like him could arise?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

This is where we are now.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such

Ben Franklin saw this coming.

I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administred; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administred for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.

Democrats have brought us to this place. Democrats did it.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

This is where we are now.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such

Ben Franklin saw this coming.

I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administred; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administred for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.

Democrats have brought us to this place. Democrats did it.

What a verbose, plagiarized, inappropriate load of shit you just dropped on all intelligent people here.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Langley shill toto and other Demonrats like the child the banker are the only ones that are a threat that the founders warned us about.

 

[Rigby5]

A key concern of James Madison and Alexander Hamilton was that demagogues would incite mobs and factions to defy the rule of law, overturn free and fair elections and undermine American democracy. “The only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion,” Alexander Hamilton wrote in 1790. “When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper…is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity,” Hamilton warned, “he may ‘ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.’”

Clearly that describes Jack Smith who is illegally trying to prevent a free and fair election, by illegally trying to charge the main candidate with fake crimes.
The law is clear, that legally and historically, presidents can do what ever they want with classified docs.
The only catch is FOIA, and since Trump only had copies, that does not at all apply.

 

[Rigby5]

Nice thread !

Trump literally lost the election and then tried to steal it for himself and the founders would be sick to see Trump doing this.

Good thing the founders put some measures in place to protect the people and democracy.

Republicans are the evil on America. Republicans are the Deep State. Republicans are the Swamp

How did Trump try to "steal" the election according to you?
Trump had nothing to do with any gerrymandering, vote counting, electronic devices, the electors, or anything else.

The worst anyone can claim is that he encouraged some protestors to break windows.
But in no way did that remotely effect the election, in any possible way.

 

[Rigby5]

It’s as if Hamilton foresaw Trump and today’s GOP.

That is uninformed, since Alexander Hamilton was a Federalist, and was probably worse than Trump as far as being a greedy capitalist.
It is Jefferson who was the anti-capitalist.

 

[Rigby5]

I do often wonder what the Founders would think of what has happened here. Yes, they did what they could to safeguard us against it, but I wonder what they would have thought of those who have enabled it. Did they anticipate that so many in Congress would facilitate something like this? And back then, did they imagine that 30% (or whatever it is) of the electorate would fall for it?

Personally, I would be ashamed for them to see this.

It is trying to charge Trump with bogus claims that is criminal.
That includes the 2 bogus impeachments.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Authoritarian demagogues like Trump are who The Founding Fathers had in mind when they designed our system. Thankfully, it held, even though MAGA and other craven Republicans tried to subvert it. They'll try another time in 2024 if/when they lose again.

The allegations in the indictment of Donald Trump for conspiring to overturn the election of 2020 represent the American Founders’ nightmare. A key concern of James Madison and Alexander Hamilton was that demagogues would incite mobs and factions to defy the rule of law, overturn free and fair elections and undermine American democracy. “The only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion,” Alexander Hamilton wrote in 1790. “When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper…is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity,” Hamilton warned, “he may ‘ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.’”​

​

The Founders designed a constitutional system to prevent demagogues from sowing confusion and mob violence in precisely this way. The vast extent of the country, Madison said, would make it hard for local factions to coordinate any kind of mass mobilization. The horizontal separation of powers among the three branches of government would ensure that the House impeached and the Senate convicted corrupt presidents. The vertical division of powers between the states and the federal government would ensure that local officials ensured election integrity.​

​

And norms about the peaceful transfer of power, strengthened by George Washington’s towering example of voluntarily stepping down from office after two terms, would ensure that no elected president could convert himself, like Caesar, into an unelected dictator. “The idea of introducing a monarchy or aristocracy into this Country,” Hamilton wrote, “is one of those visionary things, that none but madmen could meditate,” as long as the American people resisted “convulsions and disorders in consequence of the acts of popular demagogues.”​

​

According to the federal indictment issued this week, President Trump attempted to overturn the results of the 2020 election by conspiring to spread such “convulsions and disorders” through a series of knowing lies. The indictment alleges that soon after election day, Trump “pursued unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results,” perpetuating three separate criminal conspiracies: to impede the collection and counting of the ballots, Congress’s certification of the results on Jan. 6, 2021, and the right to vote itself.​

​

The indictment alleges that all three conspiracies involved a concerted effort by Trump and his co-conspirators to subvert the election results using “knowingly false claims of election fraud.” In particular, Trump allegedly “organized fraudulent slates of electors in seven targeted states”; tried to use “the power and authority of the Justice Department to conduct sham election crime investigations”; tried to enlist Vice President Mike Pence “to fraudulently alter the election results”; and, as violence broke out on Jan. 6, redoubled his efforts to “convince Members of Congress to further delay the certification.”​

Essay | The Founders Anticipated the Threat of Trump

This week’s indictment of the former president outlines the sort of demagogic challenge to the rule of law that the Constitution’s architects most feared.

www.wsj.com

Did the Founders anticipate a Joe Biden?

 

[Toro]

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Authoritarian demagogues like Trump are who The Founding Fathers had in mind when they designed our system. Thankfully, it held, even though MAGA and other craven Republicans tried to subvert it. They'll try another time in 2024 if/when they lose again.

The allegations in the indictment of Donald Trump for conspiring to overturn the election of 2020 represent the American Founders’ nightmare. A key concern of James Madison and Alexander Hamilton was that demagogues would incite mobs and factions to defy the rule of law, overturn free and fair elections and undermine American democracy. “The only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion,” Alexander Hamilton wrote in 1790. “When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper…is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity,” Hamilton warned, “he may ‘ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.’”​

​

The Founders designed a constitutional system to prevent demagogues from sowing confusion and mob violence in precisely this way. The vast extent of the country, Madison said, would make it hard for local factions to coordinate any kind of mass mobilization. The horizontal separation of powers among the three branches of government would ensure that the House impeached and the Senate convicted corrupt presidents. The vertical division of powers between the states and the federal government would ensure that local officials ensured election integrity.​

​

And norms about the peaceful transfer of power, strengthened by George Washington’s towering example of voluntarily stepping down from office after two terms, would ensure that no elected president could convert himself, like Caesar, into an unelected dictator. “The idea of introducing a monarchy or aristocracy into this Country,” Hamilton wrote, “is one of those visionary things, that none but madmen could meditate,” as long as the American people resisted “convulsions and disorders in consequence of the acts of popular demagogues.”​

​

According to the federal indictment issued this week, President Trump attempted to overturn the results of the 2020 election by conspiring to spread such “convulsions and disorders” through a series of knowing lies. The indictment alleges that soon after election day, Trump “pursued unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results,” perpetuating three separate criminal conspiracies: to impede the collection and counting of the ballots, Congress’s certification of the results on Jan. 6, 2021, and the right to vote itself.​

​

The indictment alleges that all three conspiracies involved a concerted effort by Trump and his co-conspirators to subvert the election results using “knowingly false claims of election fraud.” In particular, Trump allegedly “organized fraudulent slates of electors in seven targeted states”; tried to use “the power and authority of the Justice Department to conduct sham election crime investigations”; tried to enlist Vice President Mike Pence “to fraudulently alter the election results”; and, as violence broke out on Jan. 6, redoubled his efforts to “convince Members of Congress to further delay the certification.”​

Essay | The Founders Anticipated the Threat of Trump

This week’s indictment of the former president outlines the sort of demagogic challenge to the rule of law that the Constitution’s architects most feared.

www.wsj.com

 

[LA RAM FAN]

How did Trump try to "steal" the election according to you?
Trump had nothing to do with any gerrymandering, vote counting, electronic devices, the electors, or anything else.

The worst anyone can claim is that he encouraged some protestors to break windows.
But in no way did that remotely effect the election, in any possible way.

dude dont bother,even posters on his own side laugh at him because he clearly has not reached puberty level,the more you reply to him you make him happy,he just wants attention.

DONT FEED THE TROLL.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

That is uninformed, since Alexander Hamilton was a Federalist, and was probably worse than Trump as far as being a greedy capitalist.
It is Jefferson who was the anti-capitalist.

It is very possible that the Framers’ system that failed in 2016 will again fail in 2024.

As Election Day 2024 approaches, conservatives will increase their rhetoric of fear, racism, bigotry, and hate, increase their firehose of misinformation, conspiracy theories and lies, and intensify their attack on democracy and our democratic institutions.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

A “lawless attempt”….by constitutional means of sending electors back to state legislatures and challenging in courts.

The attempted replacement of validated slates of electors by utterly fraudulent ones was indeed lawless as it was carried out, and this will be clearly shown by the evidence during the upcoming trials of some of the perpetrators of these crimes.

 

[The Banker]

How did Trump try to "steal" the election according to you?
Trump had nothing to do with any gerrymandering, vote counting, electronic devices, the electors, or anything else.

The worst anyone can claim is that he encouraged some protestors to break windows.
But in no way did that remotely effect the election, in any possible way.

the fake electors scheme.
That was illegal and an attempt to steal the election as Trump did not get enough votes to win, but he tried to inject his fraudulent electors to try and overturn the votes for the battleground states. It didn't work, but he still tried to do it.

 

[dblack]

Same with Biden. Bribery is impeachable.

Article II Section 4

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Yep. Biden's just as bad as Trump. Either one is a wasted vote.