The Golden Truth

[Toro]

To the Gold Bugs, gold is a religion or an ideology. Most will miss the end of the gold bull market and will lose a lot of money.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

If they are not buying physical gold that is in their own possession & control - they are not using wisdom. The alarm has been sounded. Heed it or ignore it to your own peril.

 

[jwoodie]

Interesting, g5000. I was just reading (WSJ) about the vulnerability of target-date bond funds to sudden increases in interest rates, which could cause these "safe" investments to plummet at the worst possible time. Could a "perfect storm" be brewing for 401k funds?

P.S. Is it legal to place "phantom sell orders" on the exchanges? (I thought that was outlawed after Hillary's commodity "investments.")

 

[Toro]

Was this collapse driven by "phantom sells?"

I don't know.

However, it's not a surprise - at least in retrospect - that gold collapsed. Gold broke through key support levels, which lead to stops being triggered, which accelerated the decline as margin clerks took over.

You don't need any sort of manipulation for that to happen. It's the history of commodities.

 

[Foxfyre]

Guys, I don't know if this thread belongs in politics, in economics, or in conspiracy theories.

I do know the government is doing us no favors with its economic policies that do destablize the dollar and create a tremendous negative drag on the economy. And yes, this should be addressed, condemned by all freedom loving Americans everywhere, and yes, the Fed should be much more closely scrutinized and should be audited.

But there is some misinformation here too, and to be well informed, we should require that we dig out and consider reliable information, and not trust so much what is politically correct or politically expedient or partisan, ideologically motivated.

For instance:

The United States Bullion Depository Fort Knox, Kentucky
• Amount of present gold holdings: 147.3 million ounces.
• The only gold removed has been very small quantities used to test the purity of gold during regularly scheduled audits. Except for these samples, no gold has been transferred to or from the Depository for many years.
• The gold is held as an asset of the United States at book value of $42.22 per ounce.
• The Depository opened in 1937; the first gold was moved to the depository in January that year.
• Highest gold holdings this century: 649.6 million ounces (December 31, 1941).
• Size of a standard gold bar: 7 inches x 3 and 5/8 inches x 1 and 3/4 inches.
• Weight of a standard gold bar: approximately 400 ounces or 27.5 pounds.
• Construction of the depository:
Building materials used included 16,000 cubic feet of granite, 4,200 cubic yards of concrete, 750 tons of reinforcing steel, and 670 tons of structural steel.
The cost of construction was $560,000 and the building was completed in December 1936.
• In the past, the Depository has stored the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, Lincoln's Gettysburg address, three volumes of the Gutenberg Bible, and Lincoln's second inaugural address.
• In addition to gold bullion, the Mint has stored valuable items for other government agencies. The Magna Carta was once stored there. The crown, sword, scepter, orb, and cape of St. Stephen, King of Hungary also were stored at the Depository, before being returned to the government of Hungary in 1978.
The United States Mint · About The Mint

And this:

Protected by a 109,000-acre U.S. Army post in Kentucky sits one of the Federal Reserve's most secure assets and its only gold depository: the 73-year-old Fort Knox vault. Its glittering gold bricks, totaling 147.3 million ounces (that's about $168 billion at current prices), are stacked inside massive granite walls topped with a bombproof roof. Or are they?

It’s hard to know for sure. Few people have been inside Fort Knox, a highly classified bunker ringed by fences and multiple alarms and guarded by Apache helicopter gunships. When the U.S. finished building Fort Knox in 1937, the gold was shipped in on a special nine-car train manned by machine gunners and loaded onto Army trucks protected by a U.S. Cavalry brigade. And the fort has been pretty much off limits since then. A U.S. Mint spokesman said in an email statement to MoneyWatch that the accounting firm KPMG, which audits the Mint, “has been present in the vault at Fort Knox.” The Mint won’t comment on exactly how much gold is in there, though.

That’s why Ron Paul (R-Texas), a 2008 presidential candidate known for his libertarian streak, wants to have a look around. Paul introduced a bill to audit the Federal Reserve, which includes Fort Knox’s gold. “My attitude is, let’s just find out what’s there,” he says.

Despite conspiracy theories to the contrary, no serious Fed watcher thinks Fort Knox is wholly goldless — not even Paul. The push by Paul and a conspiracy-theorist group known as Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) to open Fort Knox’s 22-ton door is more about their loathing of the Federal Reserve and its purported growing powers. “The gold market is being manipulated by the Fed,” says GATA spokesman Chris Powell. “It’s involved in gold swap agreements with foreign banks. Gold is a major determinant of interest rates.”

How Important Is Fort Knox?
The bad news for Goldfinger buffs, say gold analysts, is that Fort Knox doesn’t really matter much anymore.

Fort Knox began losing its luster when the United States went off the gold standard in 1971. Before that, gold bars packed into a secure vault gave people faith in the country’s currency. Today, however, Fort Knox’s gold is now an asset on the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet, not a key part of our monetary system.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-51385523/is-there-gold-in-fort-knox/

Obviously whether or not there is gold in Fort Knox isn't all that significant because if there is, it is a tiny pittance against a $16 trillion dollar debt that is growing by billions each and every day. And THAT, the federal government's continued policy of trying to spend our way out of debt and avoid total economic collapse, is what is destablizing the dollar.

 

[whitehall]

"Back to Germany"? Last I heard there wasn't a gold rush in Germany. Where did they get the gold? From the Jews?

 

[g5000]

To the Gold Bugs, gold is a religion or an ideology. Most will miss the end of the gold bull market and will lose a lot of money.

There is a worldwide bond bubble. Central banks have been printing money by the trillions. Much of that printed money is, for all intents and purposes, buried in the back yard. However, when that money is dug up and actually begins to be spent, inflation will start to take off.

At that point, inflation will drive the price of everything, including gold, skyward. Gold is an excellent hedge against inflation. One of the best.

So buying gold in expectation of that inflation is not stupid.

 

[g5000]

I think what distinguishes a "gold bug" from a pragmatic person is that a gold bug is like any "the world is ending soon" kind of person. Deep down in their hearts, they cannot WAIT for everything to come crashing down so they can see everyone who made fun of them suffer. They have a creepy desire for everything to crash and burn.

A pragmatic person does not want to see the end of the world, but plans for it just in case. A pragmatic person would rather lose a little money than see the world destroyed while making a profit off that destruction.

The manipulators on Wall Street are stealing from your pocket and celebrating their victory over you.

 

[Toro]

To the Gold Bugs, gold is a religion or an ideology. Most will miss the end of the gold bull market and will lose a lot of money.

There is a worldwide bond bubble. Central banks have been printing money by the trillions. Much of that printed money is, for all intents and purposes, buried in the back yard. However, when that money is dug up and actually begins to be spent, inflation will start to take off.

At that point, inflation will drive the price of everything, including gold, skyward. Gold is an excellent hedge against inflation. One of the best.

So buying gold in expectation of that inflation is not stupid.

I agree that there is a bond bubble. And I have held gold for most of the last 10 years. But I haven't for some time.

Gold Bugs rarely ask "What if I'm wrong?" Introspection is a rare trait in zealots.

We've had a massive move in gold. It went from $250 in 1999 to $1921 in 2011. That is a huge increase. If one isn't considering that we at least may have topped, one isn't thinking properly. If one is absolutely sure about the future, then one is a zealot. Zealots never see the top.

 

[Foxfyre]

To the Gold Bugs, gold is a religion or an ideology. Most will miss the end of the gold bull market and will lose a lot of money.

There is a worldwide bond bubble. Central banks have been printing money by the trillions. Much of that printed money is, for all intents and purposes, buried in the back yard. However, when that money is dug up and actually begins to be spent, inflation will start to take off.

At that point, inflation will drive the price of everything, including gold, skyward. Gold is an excellent hedge against inflation. One of the best.

So buying gold in expectation of that inflation is not stupid.

If the dollar collapses, so will the currency of all of the rest of the free world. And that gold isn't going to be worth much because nobody will be able to buy it. Unless currency is tied to a fixed gold standard, the price of gold is just as unstable as paper currency printed by the government.

 

[Toro]

I think what distinguishes a "gold bug" from a pragmatic person is that a gold bug is like any "the world is ending soon" kind of person. Deep down in their hearts, they cannot WAIT for everything to come crashing down so they can see everyone who made fun of them suffer. They have a creepy desire for everything to crash and burn.

A pragmatic person does not want to see the end of the world, but plans for it just in case. A pragmatic person would rather lose a little money than see the world destroyed while making a profit off that destruction.

The manipulators on Wall Street are stealing from your pocket and celebrating their victory over you.

I don't think Wall Street cares much about gold per se. Gold is usually a peripheral conversation on Wall Street.

 

[Foxfyre]

To the Gold Bugs, gold is a religion or an ideology. Most will miss the end of the gold bull market and will lose a lot of money.

There is a worldwide bond bubble. Central banks have been printing money by the trillions. Much of that printed money is, for all intents and purposes, buried in the back yard. However, when that money is dug up and actually begins to be spent, inflation will start to take off.

At that point, inflation will drive the price of everything, including gold, skyward. Gold is an excellent hedge against inflation. One of the best.

So buying gold in expectation of that inflation is not stupid.

I agree that there is a bond bubble. And I have held gold for most of the last 10 years. But I haven't for some time.

Gold Bugs rarely ask "What if I'm wrong?" Introspection is a rare trait in zealots.

We've had a massive move in gold. It went from $250 in 1999 to $1921 in 2011. That is a huge increase. If one isn't considering that we at least may have topped, one isn't thinking properly. If one is absolutely sure about the future, then one is a zealot. Zealots never see the top.

Sure there is a bond bubble because the U.S. government has been pouring billions into the bond market to keep interest rates artificially low. And when the Fed is doing this, the market soars creating its own artificial bubble. When the Fed reaches its credit limit, established by our creditors no longer willing to loan us money to artificially prop up the economy, and/or when the Fed has to start selling off all those bonds, I'm pretty sure we can expect another of those mother's of all market crashes.

I don't know how much pain must be inflicted or how many more millions of people have to suffer needlessly because our government doesn't seem to be able to grasp the concept that we can't spend ourselves into prosperity.

Or, more likely, they know that and don't care. Our elected officials, appointees, and bureaucrats are using our money to buy votes, and are building their power, prestige, influence, and amass great personal fortunes on the backs of the U.S. taxpayer and via obligations to future generations of Americans. They hope to be long gone before the house of cards they are building totally collapses, and they will already have theirs. They don't really care all that much about the rest of us.

 

[Toro]

There is a worldwide bond bubble. Central banks have been printing money by the trillions. Much of that printed money is, for all intents and purposes, buried in the back yard. However, when that money is dug up and actually begins to be spent, inflation will start to take off.

At that point, inflation will drive the price of everything, including gold, skyward. Gold is an excellent hedge against inflation. One of the best.

So buying gold in expectation of that inflation is not stupid.

I agree that there is a bond bubble. And I have held gold for most of the last 10 years. But I haven't for some time.

Gold Bugs rarely ask "What if I'm wrong?" Introspection is a rare trait in zealots.

We've had a massive move in gold. It went from $250 in 1999 to $1921 in 2011. That is a huge increase. If one isn't considering that we at least may have topped, one isn't thinking properly. If one is absolutely sure about the future, then one is a zealot. Zealots never see the top.

Sure there is a bond bubble because the U.S. government has been pouring billions into the bond market to keep interest rates artificially low. And when the Fed is doing this, the market soars creating its own artificial bubble. When the Fed reaches its credit limit, established by our creditors no longer willing to loan us money to artificially prop up the economy, and/or when the Fed has to start selling off all those bonds, I'm pretty sure we can expect another of those mother's of all market crashes.

I don't know how much pain must be inflicted or how many more millions of people have to suffer needlessly because our government doesn't seem to be able to grasp the concept that we can't spend ourselves into prosperity.

I agree. I think the end game is a fiat currency crisis.

But what if I'm wrong? What if Bernanke is right and everything turns out fine? Very few Gold Bugs ask that question.

Most people investing in gold have little understanding how commodities markets work. Like tech stocks and home prices - and government bonds - those investing in gold will have no idea what the end will look like.

And frankly, though I've been involved in gold for a decade, the chart of gold looks like a classical top.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Well, I was watching the story on the dustbowl last night - what a time they lived in - imagine the great depression - I believe Americans today will face far worse. In the near future.

 

[Foxfyre]

I agree that there is a bond bubble. And I have held gold for most of the last 10 years. But I haven't for some time.

Gold Bugs rarely ask "What if I'm wrong?" Introspection is a rare trait in zealots.

We've had a massive move in gold. It went from $250 in 1999 to $1921 in 2011. That is a huge increase. If one isn't considering that we at least may have topped, one isn't thinking properly. If one is absolutely sure about the future, then one is a zealot. Zealots never see the top.

Sure there is a bond bubble because the U.S. government has been pouring billions into the bond market to keep interest rates artificially low. And when the Fed is doing this, the market soars creating its own artificial bubble. When the Fed reaches its credit limit, established by our creditors no longer willing to loan us money to artificially prop up the economy, and/or when the Fed has to start selling off all those bonds, I'm pretty sure we can expect another of those mother's of all market crashes.

I don't know how much pain must be inflicted or how many more millions of people have to suffer needlessly because our government doesn't seem to be able to grasp the concept that we can't spend ourselves into prosperity.

I agree. I think the end game is a fiat currency crisis.

But what if I'm wrong? What if Bernanke is right and everything turns out fine? Very few Gold Bugs ask that question.

Most people investing in gold have little understanding how commodities markets work. Like tech stocks and home prices - and government bonds - those investing in gold will have no idea what the end will look like.

And frankly, though I've been involved in gold for a decade, the chart of gold looks like a classical top.

Gold will never be worth nothing, but even gold is worth only what people are willing to trade for it whether that be other currency or goods or services. But when the price of gold is artificially created, gold is no less risky an investment than is any other investment. We can testify to that with the small amount we have invested in precious metals commodities. And believe me, you don't want to put the money you need to live on in such investments these days.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I agree that there is a bond bubble. And I have held gold for most of the last 10 years. But I haven't for some time.

Gold Bugs rarely ask "What if I'm wrong?" Introspection is a rare trait in zealots.

We've had a massive move in gold. It went from $250 in 1999 to $1921 in 2011. That is a huge increase. If one isn't considering that we at least may have topped, one isn't thinking properly. If one is absolutely sure about the future, then one is a zealot. Zealots never see the top.

Sure there is a bond bubble because the U.S. government has been pouring billions into the bond market to keep interest rates artificially low. And when the Fed is doing this, the market soars creating its own artificial bubble. When the Fed reaches its credit limit, established by our creditors no longer willing to loan us money to artificially prop up the economy, and/or when the Fed has to start selling off all those bonds, I'm pretty sure we can expect another of those mother's of all market crashes.

I don't know how much pain must be inflicted or how many more millions of people have to suffer needlessly because our government doesn't seem to be able to grasp the concept that we can't spend ourselves into prosperity.

I agree. I think the end game is a fiat currency crisis.

But what if I'm wrong? What if Bernanke is right and everything turns out fine? Very few Gold Bugs ask that question.

Most people investing in gold have little understanding how commodities markets work. Like tech stocks and home prices - and government bonds - those investing in gold will have no idea what the end will look like.

And frankly, though I've been involved in gold for a decade, the chart of gold looks like a classical top.

Right those who invested will be refunded in worthless dollars after being told they oversold and there is no gold. But thanks for letting us use your money interest free in the meanwhile!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Feeling threatened by something you cannot explain, Woodie? I hardly find your complaint a valid one. Join the discussion or don't join it. That is the beauty of message boards. You don't have to participate.

It is indeed a political discussion because since 2010 - 11 our own Gov has been actively involved in purposely destabilizing the dollar - that is an act of treason - and a political discussion. Not an economic one. Thanks and you have a nice day. Ya hear? - Jeri

Thanks for the succinct response! What do you mean by destabilizing the dollar, and for what purpose? (serious questions)

Anytime.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

/

 

[Sallow]

the old how much gold is in fort knox thing huh?

There are serious people in the financial world who have been warning for some time about the criminal activity going on. And would you say Germany recalling its gold is a crackpot move? These are some of the most financially savvy people in the world.

There is definitely something wrong in the commodities market. It is common knowledge.

ETA: The recent COMEX fiasco has woken up a lot of people.

Gold is sort of a stupid thing to peg currency against..anyway.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Comex Gold Inventories Collapse By Largest Amount Ever On Record

I just saw a Comex commercial. They say you cannot take posession of the gold for 5 yrs from date of purchase. How convenient is that? They know they oversold and will be refunding you with worthless paper should the dollar crash.