The Gospel of Unbelief

[5stringJeff]

You do realize that the 72-virgin nutters also think they're right, don't you? And they use the same unwavering belief in their rightness to justify atrocities.

People should just stay out of each others' beliefs if those beliefs don't hurt anyone, IMO.

So...yeah...EVERYONE thinks they are right or they wouldn't hold to their belief systems. The only thing that makes anyone feel they are more correct than anyone else is .... FAITH!

Now...faith in and of itself is a wonderful thing. Faith used for bad stuff isn't. (Though everyone who does terrible things because of faith will tell you that they are doing so to "save" everyone else.)

Beliefs systems are either right or they are wrong. To say that a particular belief system is right for you, but wrong for me is absurd. For instance, either there is a God, as Christianity, Islam, and Judaism claim, or there is not a God, as Buddhism and atheism claim. If there is a God, then Buddhism and atheism are wrong, plain and simple; if there is not a God, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are wrong, plain and simple. But to say that atheism is right for you while Christianity is right for me is nonsensical.

 

[5stringJeff]

How does the above statement marry with this one:

Originally Posted by gop_jeff
Indeed it does say that. However, if you read through the entire Bible, you'll see that much of the Old Testament law dealing with sanitation, animal sacrifices, clothing laws, etc., was overridden and replaced with the covenant of grace through Christ.

If you read the entire Bible, you'll see that in Christ, there is a new covenant, wherein much of the OT law is abolished. That does not contradict my other statement. One has to take the entire book into context.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I don't think there is supposed to be a huge wall between church and state. Just a chain fence.....

Yeah, without machine guns posted and snarly ACLU dogs patrolling...
:firing:

 

[dmp]

The vast majority of people who are anti-gay on this site have that opinion due to their religion (this being an example of religious doctrine being forced upon others)....

I think you haven't been reading enough to suppose what the 'vast majority' of those here who do NOT suppor special-rights for homosexuals may have in the way of 'reasoning'.

I do not support special rights for ANY group of the population based SIMPLY on their behavior. I am NOT anti-gay. I am pro-normal. Homosexuality being morally/spiritually wrong is gravy; it confirms in my heart what science had taught me in my mind.

Homosexuality is a condition of the mind - it's destructive and harmful to society, as demonstrated by 'science'.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I think you haven't been reading enough to suppose what the 'vast majority' of those here who do NOT suppor special-rights for homosexuals may have in the way of 'reasoning'.

I do not support special rights for ANY group of the population based SIMPLY on their behavior. I am NOT anti-gay. I am pro-normal. Homosexuality being morally/spiritually wrong is gravy; it confirms in my heart what science had taught me in my mind.

Homosexuality is a condition of the mind - it's destructive and harmful to society, as demonstrated by 'science'.

Yes, science may confirm today what religion has known for eons. In many ways religions are just sets of beliefs and traditions that work for society which mankind has distilled over the years through experience. Someone could even go so far as to call many of these beliefs "secular" if you just took "God" out of the mix.

 

[dilloduck]

True! It's all in the delivery. For me, if you said "God says thou shalt no covet thy neighbour's wife/husband", I'd think you might be trying to foist some religious dogma on me. If you said "Hey, Grumpy, don't sleep with your neighbour's wife/husband", I might not take it as religious doctrine. But in saying that, it is a bit of a red herring. The vast majority of people who are anti-gay on this site have that opinion due to their religion (this being an example of religious doctrine being forced upon others)....

All in the delivery---I have suspected such for quite sometime. The message may be ok---just not the messanger?

 

[MissileMan]

If the Constitutuion seriously intended to erect this huge wall between Church and State, why did they not forbid religious people from running for office, voting and assembling to present thier grievances ?

What do those two things possibly have to do with each other? The question is non-sequitur.

 

[dilloduck]

What do those two things possibly have to do with each other? The question is non-sequitur.

Do I really have to explain the connection?

 

[MissileMan]

Beliefs systems are either right or they are wrong. To say that a particular belief system is right for you, but wrong for me is absurd. For instance, either there is a God, as Christianity, Islam, and Judaism claim, or there is not a God, as Buddhism and atheism claim. If there is a God, then Buddhism and atheism are wrong, plain and simple; if there is not a God, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are wrong, plain and simple. But to say that atheism is right for you while Christianity is right for me is nonsensical.

What if everyone is right? What if your post-earthly existence depends on what you believe? I find it illogical to believe that 2/3rds of the world's population are cooking in hell because they had the misfortune to be born other than a Christian. So, unless all of the religions are right, chances are they're all wrong.

 

[MissileMan]

Do I really have to explain the connection?

You can make an attempt if you wish, but you won't be able to.

 

[dilloduck]

You can make an attempt if you wish, but you won't be able to.

Then tell me why religious people are free allowed to hold public office.

 

[dmp]

What if everyone is right? What if your post-earthly existence depends on what you believe? I find it illogical to believe that 2/3rds of the world's population are cooking in hell because they had the misfortune to be born other than a Christian. So, unless all of the religions are right, chances are they're all wrong.

Point of order - nobody is BORN a 'christian'. Impossible.

And yes - MOST of the population of the world WILL NOT be 'in heaven', because "narrow is the path to God, and only a few will find it."

 

[jillian]

Point of order - nobody is BORN a 'christian'. Impossible.

And yes - MOST of the population of the world WILL NOT be 'in heaven', because "narrow is the path to God, and only a few will find it."

The shi'a and sunni think that, too. Hence my point.

 

[MissileMan]

Then tell me why religious people are free allowed to hold public office.

Asking me a question is NOT making a connection. See if you can make the point that an individual citizen's religious belief is tied to a separation of church and government as you alleged.

 

[jillian]

Beliefs systems are either right or they are wrong. To say that a particular belief system is right for you, but wrong for me is absurd. For instance, either there is a God, as Christianity, Islam, and Judaism claim, or there is not a God, as Buddhism and atheism claim. If there is a God, then Buddhism and atheism are wrong, plain and simple; if there is not a God, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are wrong, plain and simple. But to say that atheism is right for you while Christianity is right for me is nonsensical.

How about looking at it differently? I think religions are different languages with which we talk to our Creator and He's multi-lingual. :halo:

I also think deeds get you into heaven, not just belief.

 

[MissileMan]

Point of order - nobody is BORN a 'christian'. Impossible.

At what point then is someone a Christian?

 

[dilloduck]

Asking me a question is NOT making a connection. See if you can make the point that an individual citizen's religious belief is tied to a separation of church and government as you alleged.

An individuals religious belief is tied to the governement when the citizen is an elected member of the government. Should he be censored as to not impose his belief on others by doing something crazy like sponsor a bill or something?

 

[dilloduck]

How about looking at it differently? I think religions are different languages with which we talk to our Creator and He's multi-lingual. :halo:

I also think deeds get you into heaven, not just belief.

How about we all just make something up?

 

[dmp]

At what point then is someone a Christian?

When they accept Christ, and actively follow Christ's Teachings. It's a decision-point not a birthright.

 

[dmp]

The shi'a and sunni think that, too. Hence my point.

They think what? That they are the only people 'right'?

Sucks to be them, doesn't it? They are as wrong as ANYONE who doesn't follow Christ.