The Government Doesn't Like the Way You Raise Your Kids?

[dblack]

The abuse of CPS has been an ongoing discussion since the early 1990's and still nothing much has been done to change the way it is being run.

It needs to be reformed like many of our government departments but no matter which party is in power nothing gets done in any of them.

Again, that may be true and it could well be worthy of a thread.
But as far as we know it's simply not related here. For all we know this is a case of CPS doing exactly what you'd like to see it reformed into.

That depends on your purpose for discussing it in the first place. If you think we're here to get to bottom of things, to sort out the facts and determine the true story - well, I think you're pissing up a rope. The only thing worth discussing in these topical stories is the questions they raise regarding laws and society. And I don't really get why some of you are so determined to silence such discussion.

Actually it's the opposite -- the rest of us don't get why some of you are so determined to treat a fantasy as if it's reality on a situation that for all we know does not even exist.

What could be the purpose for that?? Aye, there's the rub.

The fact that government has the power to do what the article alleges isn't a fantasy.

 

[dblack]

Today, the parents were formally charged, the mother with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, the father with menacing for going onto someone's property to get water from a well, then threatened that person when asked to leave.

Huh. That doesn't really sound like it warrants taking their children away. Must have been something more going on.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Today, the parents were formally charged, the mother with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, the father with menacing for going onto someone's property to get water from a well, then threatened that person when asked to leave.

Huh. That doesn't really sound like it warrants taking their children away. Must have been something more going on.

And there is. These people are nutters, who shouldn't be making let alone raising children.

 

[orogenicman]

Today, the parents were formally charged, the mother with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, the father with menacing for going onto someone's property to get water from a well, then threatened that person when asked to leave.

Huh. That doesn't really sound like it warrants taking their children away. Must have been something more going on.

I guess you missed the part where the oldest son accused the father of physical and sexual abuse.

 

[dblack]

Today, the parents were formally charged, the mother with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, the father with menacing for going onto someone's property to get water from a well, then threatened that person when asked to leave.

Huh. That doesn't really sound like it warrants taking their children away. Must have been something more going on.

I guess you missed the part where the oldest son accused the father of physical and sexual abuse.

No, I missed the part where he was charged with that crime.

 

[orogenicman]

Today, the parents were formally charged, the mother with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, the father with menacing for going onto someone's property to get water from a well, then threatened that person when asked to leave.

Huh. That doesn't really sound like it warrants taking their children away. Must have been something more going on.

I guess you missed the part where the oldest son accused the father of physical and sexual abuse.

No, I missed the part where he was charged with that crime.

Well, you know, that is what investigations and hearings are for, and likely one of the reasons the children were put in foster care. Stay tuned.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Today, the parents were formally charged, the mother with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, the father with menacing for going onto someone's property to get water from a well, then threatened that person when asked to leave.

Huh. That doesn't really sound like it warrants taking their children away. Must have been something more going on.

I guess you missed the part where the oldest son accused the father of physical and sexual abuse.

No, I missed the part where he was charged with that crime.

Doesn't have to be, yet or ever.

 

[Pogo]

The abuse of CPS has been an ongoing discussion since the early 1990's and still nothing much has been done to change the way it is being run.

It needs to be reformed like many of our government departments but no matter which party is in power nothing gets done in any of them.

Again, that may be true and it could well be worthy of a thread.
But as far as we know it's simply not related here. For all we know this is a case of CPS doing exactly what you'd like to see it reformed into.

That depends on your purpose for discussing it in the first place. If you think we're here to get to bottom of things, to sort out the facts and determine the true story - well, I think you're pissing up a rope. The only thing worth discussing in these topical stories is the questions they raise regarding laws and society. And I don't really get why some of you are so determined to silence such discussion.

Actually it's the opposite -- the rest of us don't get why some of you are so determined to treat a fantasy as if it's reality on a situation that for all we know does not even exist.

What could be the purpose for that?? Aye, there's the rub.

The fact that government has the power to do what the article alleges isn't a fantasy.

Actually it doesn't, so yes it is.
That's the whole point of being not-a-real-thing.

 

[dblack]

Today, the parents were formally charged, the mother with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, the father with menacing for going onto someone's property to get water from a well, then threatened that person when asked to leave.

Huh. That doesn't really sound like it warrants taking their children away. Must have been something more going on.

I guess you missed the part where the oldest son accused the father of physical and sexual abuse.

No, I missed the part where he was charged with that crime.

Doesn't have to be, yet or ever.

Exactly. And that's what I find questionable.

 

[dblack]

The abuse of CPS has been an ongoing discussion since the early 1990's and still nothing much has been done to change the way it is being run.

It needs to be reformed like many of our government departments but no matter which party is in power nothing gets done in any of them.

Again, that may be true and it could well be worthy of a thread.
But as far as we know it's simply not related here. For all we know this is a case of CPS doing exactly what you'd like to see it reformed into.

That depends on your purpose for discussing it in the first place. If you think we're here to get to bottom of things, to sort out the facts and determine the true story - well, I think you're pissing up a rope. The only thing worth discussing in these topical stories is the questions they raise regarding laws and society. And I don't really get why some of you are so determined to silence such discussion.

Actually it's the opposite -- the rest of us don't get why some of you are so determined to treat a fantasy as if it's reality on a situation that for all we know does not even exist.

What could be the purpose for that?? Aye, there's the rub.

The fact that government has the power to do what the article alleges isn't a fantasy.

Actually it doesn't, so yes it is.
That's the whole point of being not-a-real-thing.

So, if you want to fixate on facts, how about something substantiating that opinion. Clearly others here disagree - and not just right wing nutters - so this isn't exactly the non-topic you seem to think.

 

[Pogo]

Again, that may be true and it could well be worthy of a thread.
But as far as we know it's simply not related here. For all we know this is a case of CPS doing exactly what you'd like to see it reformed into.

That depends on your purpose for discussing it in the first place. If you think we're here to get to bottom of things, to sort out the facts and determine the true story - well, I think you're pissing up a rope. The only thing worth discussing in these topical stories is the questions they raise regarding laws and society. And I don't really get why some of you are so determined to silence such discussion.

Actually it's the opposite -- the rest of us don't get why some of you are so determined to treat a fantasy as if it's reality on a situation that for all we know does not even exist.

What could be the purpose for that?? Aye, there's the rub.

The fact that government has the power to do what the article alleges isn't a fantasy.

Actually it doesn't, so yes it is.
That's the whole point of being not-a-real-thing.

So, if you want to fixate on facts, how about something substantiating that opinion. Clearly others here disagree - and not just right wing nutters - so this isn't exactly the non-topic you seem to think.

You want me to "substantiate" that I "want to fixate on facts"?

Strange post. But yes I can see others disagree with facts. That's nothing new. We already did a previous thread on this when the OP couldn't come up with any.

 

[dblack]

That depends on your purpose for discussing it in the first place. If you think we're here to get to bottom of things, to sort out the facts and determine the true story - well, I think you're pissing up a rope. The only thing worth discussing in these topical stories is the questions they raise regarding laws and society. And I don't really get why some of you are so determined to silence such discussion.

Actually it's the opposite -- the rest of us don't get why some of you are so determined to treat a fantasy as if it's reality on a situation that for all we know does not even exist.

What could be the purpose for that?? Aye, there's the rub.

The fact that government has the power to do what the article alleges isn't a fantasy.

Actually it doesn't, so yes it is.
That's the whole point of being not-a-real-thing.

So, if you want to fixate on facts, how about something substantiating that opinion. Clearly others here disagree - and not just right wing nutters - so this isn't exactly the non-topic you seem to think.

You want me to "substantiate" that I "want to fixate on facts"?

Strange post. But yes I can see others disagree with facts. That's nothing new. We already did a previous thread on this when the OP couldn't come up with any.

Ah.. you're being silly on purpose? You seem to think government doesn't have the power to take our kids away without due process. PMH thinks you're wrong. Which one of you is right? What's the 'fact'?

 

[Pogo]

I guess this thread has become the de facto blessed little homestead now (?)

Assuming so -- today's observations from a self-described "off-grid homeschooled" interested party:

Most of the information people are referencing is based only from the first few photos and/or posts on the family’s blog and Facebook page. For instance, the cover photo used in much of media coverage is clearly (based off the age of the youngest child featured) taken as much as two years ago. Another instance would be the “cabin”. When the family first moved to the property they did, indeed, have a cabin of sorts. In reality it was a small prefab home bought on credit. But this cabin was later returned. Where it stood is now a concrete slab, bare and seen in photos as a resting place for a heard of goats.

Since then the family has lived in a series of small open air shacks and tents — none of which even have 4 walls, windows, a solid floor, or a working door. This as well is clearly visible from photos publicly posted.

3. The dates of the photos posted on the family’s pages do not necessarily correlate to the date the photos were actually taken. Once again, this can be established by noting certain structures (or lack there of) on the land, the ages of the youngest children, and the time of year the photos were taken. Thus, no reliable timeline of any kind as to the health and welfare of the children, at the time they were taken, can be established by the online information. The most recent group photo I could find (once again based from the ages of the children) might have been taken as long ago as last fall.

4. The situation at the homestead, based off the photos and posts available, seems to be getting worse. There are several reasons for this, and they have to do with the effects of animals (goats, chickens, dogs, etc.) and human habitation on a spot of land. In the beginning the pond appears to be a real pond (turtles and fish are pictured), by the (apparently) latest photos, the pond has turned into a filthy mud pit devoid of most life. This is the natural consequence of animal dung running off the surrounding landscape with the rain and melting snow, the traffic of people, animals, etc.

This same trend can be seen in the yards and areas surrounding the shack. At first the dirt is held down by plant roots, but as the small trees were killed by the goats or chopped down to form fences, the dirt turned to mud. This mud gets mixed with the animal dung (goat, chicken and dog) and gets tracked by the bare feet of the children over every surface of the homestead. This state of affairs is clearly visible in the photos.

With this comes water from rain running straight off into the pond, carrying with it animal dung and any and all other forms of filth, from oil and gasoline from the generator, to cooking and food waste. This means that any photos taken at the beginning of this homestead experience simply can not be relied on to show the true living conditions of the current day.

...
5. These conditions will continue to get worse unless there are major and lasting changes to every aspect of the family’s food preparation area, sleeping area etc. The mud and run-off water will get worse as the hillside continues to break apart. The pond will become even worse of a health hazard as it fills with more animal dung and garbage. The structures, such as they are, will begin to mold and rot from the ground up. (This is, in fact, based off photos. It is already taking place).

6. I am not going to talk here about the family’s religious beliefs, their choice to un-school or homeschool their children, their practice of not providing their children with immunizations, Social Security numbers, or birth certificates.

All those issues are, in my opinion, secondary to the very real and pressing issues of the health and physical safety of these ten children.

Despite all the media coverage to the contrary, that does seem, based off all information available, to be the actual and factual reason the children were taken from their parents.

In the photo (which got over 20 likes) we see multiple children, dressed in dirty shorts, sprawled on mounds of blankets in the dirt around an open air fire pit.

They are obviously sick: (image will not transfer, visible on the page)​

Blessed Little Homestead
Personal Blog · 37,666 Likes
· July 24, 2014 ·
My family is sick.. We never get sick, its been nearly 3 years since we have been sick...But I think the children ate some bad food. ~lesson learned, ask mom before you eat something.. 7 of 10 children down. Olivia, being the nurturing one that she is, is taking care of everyone with me. She is bringing water to them, making sure they are all cared for..She has been on top of it not missing a step even when I stopped to feed the baby. Quinten made up everyone's spot.. .. ,,,,at least they like to sleep outside. ( true campers!) But no one is up for roasted marshmallows​

Food poisoning. Or was it? They, “the children” had eaten some unidentified “food” with out asking their mother if it was safe to eat.

Was it some of the wild mushrooms featured in many photos on the “Blessed Little Homestead” (BLH) Facebook page?

Was it rotting left over food sitting in any number of the unwashed and grime incrusted Tupperware and plastic containers lying scattered around the open air “kitchen” (really a stack of bricks filled with open flame and topped with rusty and filth incrusted wire racks)?

Was it Salmonella?

Let us see if this description matches some of the living environments seen on the BLH Facebook page.

Food: Contaminated eggs, poultry, meat, unpasteurized milk or juice, cheese, contaminated raw fruits and vegetables (alfalfa sprouts, melons), spices, and nuts

Animals and their environment: Particularly reptiles (snakes, turtles, lizards), amphibians (frogs), birds (baby chicks) and pet food and treats.

There are picture after picture after picture of small children, covered in grime, holding and handling:

• Snakes.
• Toads.
• Baby Chicks.
• Turtles.

.....
I could go on for pages about the myriad dangers from accident and infection and disease these children were being exposed to on a daily basis. I could mention the animal dung covering the whole area in a layer of slime, pounded into a grimy coating by the bare feet of ten children, draining with the rain and melting snow, down hill from the “homestead” into the pond that has now, after several years of occupation, apparently gone from being home to fish and turtles (in earlier photos) to being a mud pit doubling as an open sewer choked with animal dung.

I could mention the generator and gasoline cans, (visible in several photos) located right next to the shack ( there is an extreme danger of carbon monoxide poisoning killing the entire family, in fact, the only reason I suspect this hasn’t happened yet is the fact the dwelling is not enclosed on all four sides).

I could mention the filthy conditions of the “cooking area”, including dirt encrusted plastic cups, drifting smoke and food being eaten by the grimy unwashed hands of children as young as 4 who cooked their own meals, over the open flames. (also clearly visible in photos on the B.L.H. public Facebook page.)

I could mention the photos of dog bites, wasp stings, scrapes, cuts, and bruises.

I could mention that the BLH blog links to articles about how Tetanus shots aren’t needed as long as the: “wound bleeds, cus Tetanus can’t live in oxygen and there is oxygen in your blood” (I kid you not).

I could mention the fact that with out any doubt what so ever, this “homestead” also smells like an open sewer.

It does.

I know because I grew up on a farm/homestead.

I know because you simply can’t have 8 goats, 7 dogs, two cats, a dozen chickens and twelve people living loose around a muddy pond in the Kentucky summer heat with no running water and not have it smell so rancid that it could be smelled half a mile away.

It’s impossible.

This has been framed as a “off the grid” issue. It is not. “Off the grid” does notmean, by default: dangerous, filthy, ignorant of basic food preparation and safety, anti Government and anti documentation. “Off the Grid” living can be done safely, cleanly, and in full compliance with all local laws and regulations (in many states). I know. I lived it.

This has been framed as a homeschool issue.

It is not.​

Sobering view.