The highest-end audio

[toobfreak]

I haven't run a tuner in years Henry, but the two I used to use (from the 1950s) were monophonic. But you can still get good sound with FM though I don't know these days if there is anything out there playing anything worth listening to.

True, but all radio (AM and FM) were monophonic in the early 1950s. Stereo came a little later to FM and plenty later to AM (and a lousy system that was!) Yes you can get decent sound with FM but it doesn't matter that there's nothing worth listening to since very few FMs haven't bought into over-processing. Too late for it to matter but the FM you hear today is far lower in potential quality than was the original low-band FM (40-50 MHz) where bandwidth wasn't cut down to cram in more stations. That was killed off in 1949 making a half-million receivers obsolete. Not only was the potential for "quality" audio better but those FMs had reach! Far greater than the limited coverage of even the highest power FMs of today.

The proposed new digital audio service on the present AM band will be interesting to watch. I don't expect much from it, though, unless it's forced into car/truck radios and even home radios, many of which are now FM only. A lot of rural areas are going to lose audio broadcast services if this thing is mandated. I do expect, though, exemptions for places like Alaska where the alternatives to AM are viable only in major population areas. I don't expect the audio quality of any new service to be exceptional; receiver manufacturers long ago figured out that the average potential listener is so accustomed to shitty sound that somebody shouting into the end of a piece of string would sound acceptable to that average listener with the other end of the string stuffed in its ear. Or up its nose.

All true, I'm just saying that 20 years ago or whenever the last time it was I still used a tuner, you could still get pleasing hi-fidelity from FM, and my old tube mono Radio Craftsman tuners gave nice sound. There were some very good stereo FM tuners as well, like the Marantz Model 10B or the Dick Sequerra Model 1 Broadcast Monitor.

Has FM deteriorated since the 30s and 40s? I wasn't around then to say; if I want better sound than FM, I can always go to cassette or RTR, to CD, and finally, LP.

 

[G.T.]

You don’t get any higher-end than these new Genelics. And when I win the lottery I may buy a pair.

You think that is the highest of the hi-end, Bobo? Gee, do you have another thing coming. A sound engineer with some electronic background can build far better for a fraction of the price, but if you have 20K to plunk down on what amounts to a pair of bookshelf speakers and a sub module, they will be thrilled to take your money.

Just so you know, the most expensive commercially made consumer speakers can run well over $100,000, even over a million dollars.

These speakers you have will have to be raised off the floor to have any kind of imaging and won't be effective much below about 80-120 Hz no matter what they specs claim.

As Grumblenuts correctly stated, class D is fine for the lowest octaves of bass, say, 80 Hz and below, not at all anything I want to subject my ears to for the all-important midrange or treble.

118dB-- -- I assume they mean dB/w/m? That is barely satisfyingly loud, to recreate live music you need more like 130 dB/w/m with HEADROOM.

Techy speakers, built in amps, I'm more inclined to like the sub unit more, other than the cost and ugliness, my last thought is good luck if anything goes wrong-- -- with speakers like that, if they break, you've lost the entire stereo chain short of the source component and presumably, preamp.

If I told you how much better speakers you could buy for less money (in some cases, a tiny fraction of the cost), you probably wouldn't believe me.

Dude, they're studio monitors.

They're what is used to MIX the music, that ENDS UP on your home high end systems.

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

The point of the OP, and the point of studio monitors...is not the same as home stereo. They're supposed to be as uncolored and boring as possible. You're talking about two totally different things, here.

 

[toobfreak]

That thing better come out of the box and fix you a sandwich for that kinda $$

They better give you a blowjob. The things are uglier than my dog's ass.

Come back when you learn the difference between consumer audio and professional near-field monitoring. Not until.

No need to. I don't use much consumer gear. Most of my gear is either pro audio brands you never heard of, or custom built.

So now you're saying you work in or are building a recording studio? There are still much better choices for that, many of the high end speakers sold were actually MADE for near-field monitoring in studios, etc.

But then, pro gear is pro gear, if you intended to talk strictly pro audio, you shouldn't have used a consumer term like "hi-end" in your OP. Proof once again you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Synthaholic]

You don’t get any higher-end than these new Genelics. And when I win the lottery I may buy a pair.

You think that is the highest of the hi-end, Bobo? Gee, do you have another thing coming. A sound engineer with some electronic background can build far better for a fraction of the price, but if you have 20K to plunk down on what amounts to a pair of bookshelf speakers and a sub module, they will be thrilled to take your money.

Just so you know, the most expensive commercially made consumer speakers can run well over $100,000, even over a million dollars.

These speakers you have will have to be raised off the floor to have any kind of imaging and won't be effective much below about 80-120 Hz no matter what they specs claim.

As Grumblenuts correctly stated, class D is fine for the lowest octaves of bass, say, 80 Hz and below, not at all anything I want to subject my ears to for the all-important midrange or treble.

118dB-- -- I assume they mean dB/w/m? That is barely satisfyingly loud, to recreate live music you need more like 130 dB/w/m with HEADROOM.

Techy speakers, built in amps, I'm more inclined to like the sub unit more, other than the cost and ugliness, my last thought is good luck if anything goes wrong-- -- with speakers like that, if they break, you've lost the entire stereo chain short of the source component and presumably, preamp.

If I told you how much better speakers you could buy for less money (in some cases, a tiny fraction of the cost), you probably wouldn't believe me.

Dude, they're studio monitors.

They're what is used to MIX the music, that ENDS UP on your home high end systems.

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

The point of the OP, and the point of studio monitors...is not the same as home stereo. They're supposed to be as uncolored and boring as possible. You're talking about two totally different things, here.

Thank you, G.T. The "expert" is kind of a dope.

 

[Synthaholic]

Most of my gear is either pro audio brands you never heard of, or custom built.

Who the fuck are you to tell me what I've heard of? I've been a professional musician for 40 years. While I'm sure you've been an asshole for the same amount of time.

 

[G.T.]

That thing better come out of the box and fix you a sandwich for that kinda $$

They better give you a blowjob. The things are uglier than my dog's ass.

Come back when you learn the difference between consumer audio and professional near-field monitoring. Not until.

No need to. I don't use much consumer gear. Most of my gear is either pro audio brands you never heard of, or custom built.

So now you're saying you work in or are building a recording studio? There are still much better choices for that, many of the high end speakers sold were actually MADE for near-field monitoring in studios, etc.

But then, pro gear is pro gear, if you intended to talk strictly pro audio, you shouldn't have used a consumer term like "hi-end" in your OP. Proof once again you don't know what you're talking about.

Grammy award winning mix/mastering engineers use basic bitch shit. They're not looking for high end audio, they're looking for speakers that translate across as many systems as possible.

 

[toobfreak]

You don’t get any higher-end than these new Genelics. And when I win the lottery I may buy a pair.

You think that is the highest of the hi-end, Bobo? Gee, do you have another thing coming. A sound engineer with some electronic background can build far better for a fraction of the price, but if you have 20K to plunk down on what amounts to a pair of bookshelf speakers and a sub module, they will be thrilled to take your money.

Just so you know, the most expensive commercially made consumer speakers can run well over $100,000, even over a million dollars.

These speakers you have will have to be raised off the floor to have any kind of imaging and won't be effective much below about 80-120 Hz no matter what they specs claim.

As Grumblenuts correctly stated, class D is fine for the lowest octaves of bass, say, 80 Hz and below, not at all anything I want to subject my ears to for the all-important midrange or treble.

118dB-- -- I assume they mean dB/w/m? That is barely satisfyingly loud, to recreate live music you need more like 130 dB/w/m with HEADROOM.

Techy speakers, built in amps, I'm more inclined to like the sub unit more, other than the cost and ugliness, my last thought is good luck if anything goes wrong-- -- with speakers like that, if they break, you've lost the entire stereo chain short of the source component and presumably, preamp.

If I told you how much better speakers you could buy for less money (in some cases, a tiny fraction of the cost), you probably wouldn't believe me.

Dude, they're studio monitors.

They're what is used to MIX the music, that ENDS UP on your home high end systems.

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

The point of the OP, and the point of studio monitors...is not the same as home stereo. They're supposed to be as uncolored and boring as possible. You're talking about two totally different things, here.

Like I said, many pro studio monitors are sold in the high end. A good speaker is a good speaker, you're not going to get the best sound ANYWHERE, home or in a studio with speakers that are colored. And to reiterate, there is no "hi-end" in pro audio. The term hi-end connotes home audio.

 

[G.T.]

You don’t get any higher-end than these new Genelics. And when I win the lottery I may buy a pair.

You think that is the highest of the hi-end, Bobo? Gee, do you have another thing coming. A sound engineer with some electronic background can build far better for a fraction of the price, but if you have 20K to plunk down on what amounts to a pair of bookshelf speakers and a sub module, they will be thrilled to take your money.

Just so you know, the most expensive commercially made consumer speakers can run well over $100,000, even over a million dollars.

These speakers you have will have to be raised off the floor to have any kind of imaging and won't be effective much below about 80-120 Hz no matter what they specs claim.

As Grumblenuts correctly stated, class D is fine for the lowest octaves of bass, say, 80 Hz and below, not at all anything I want to subject my ears to for the all-important midrange or treble.

118dB-- -- I assume they mean dB/w/m? That is barely satisfyingly loud, to recreate live music you need more like 130 dB/w/m with HEADROOM.

Techy speakers, built in amps, I'm more inclined to like the sub unit more, other than the cost and ugliness, my last thought is good luck if anything goes wrong-- -- with speakers like that, if they break, you've lost the entire stereo chain short of the source component and presumably, preamp.

If I told you how much better speakers you could buy for less money (in some cases, a tiny fraction of the cost), you probably wouldn't believe me.

Dude, they're studio monitors.

They're what is used to MIX the music, that ENDS UP on your home high end systems.

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

The point of the OP, and the point of studio monitors...is not the same as home stereo. They're supposed to be as uncolored and boring as possible. You're talking about two totally different things, here.

Thank you, G.T. The "expert" is kind of a dope.

No problem. I have a home studio and had to do the same deep dives into all of these things as the rest of is grass roots guys do. Its fun!

Even treating my studio and making the acoustic panels and all was a lot of fun...and a lot of research. I love this stuff.

 

[G.T.]

You don’t get any higher-end than these new Genelics. And when I win the lottery I may buy a pair.

You think that is the highest of the hi-end, Bobo? Gee, do you have another thing coming. A sound engineer with some electronic background can build far better for a fraction of the price, but if you have 20K to plunk down on what amounts to a pair of bookshelf speakers and a sub module, they will be thrilled to take your money.

Just so you know, the most expensive commercially made consumer speakers can run well over $100,000, even over a million dollars.

These speakers you have will have to be raised off the floor to have any kind of imaging and won't be effective much below about 80-120 Hz no matter what they specs claim.

As Grumblenuts correctly stated, class D is fine for the lowest octaves of bass, say, 80 Hz and below, not at all anything I want to subject my ears to for the all-important midrange or treble.

118dB-- -- I assume they mean dB/w/m? That is barely satisfyingly loud, to recreate live music you need more like 130 dB/w/m with HEADROOM.

Techy speakers, built in amps, I'm more inclined to like the sub unit more, other than the cost and ugliness, my last thought is good luck if anything goes wrong-- -- with speakers like that, if they break, you've lost the entire stereo chain short of the source component and presumably, preamp.

If I told you how much better speakers you could buy for less money (in some cases, a tiny fraction of the cost), you probably wouldn't believe me.

Dude, they're studio monitors.

They're what is used to MIX the music, that ENDS UP on your home high end systems.

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

The point of the OP, and the point of studio monitors...is not the same as home stereo. They're supposed to be as uncolored and boring as possible. You're talking about two totally different things, here.

Like I said, many pro studio monitors are sold in the high end. A good speaker is a good speaker, you're not going to get the best sound ANYWHERE, home or in a studio with speakers that are colored. And to reiterate, there is no "hi-end" in pro audio. The term hi-end connotes home audio.

Dr. Dre made the Chronic on hs10s. Thats all anyone ever needed to know about monitoring.

I wonder what the Thriller album was mixed on? I might google that.

 

[toobfreak]

Most of my gear is either pro audio brands you never heard of, or custom built.

Who the fuck are you to tell me what I've heard of? I've been a professional musician for 40 years. While I'm sure you've been an asshole for the same amount of time.

Eat shit and die, buttcake. SO WHAT if you've been a musician. So have I. You're not an engineer, you're not a designer and you don't built your own gear. You obviously don't know jack about anything, much less good sound, otherwise you wouldn't have had the audacity to call those speakers the "highest-end audio!" You think only musicians and people in studios buy studio monitors?

 

[toobfreak]

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

Could've fooled me! No sure what "industry" you're talking about! In my world, one of the true industry reference standards for ages in the studio was the BBC LS3/5a:

LS3/5A - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And they weren't cheap.

 

[Synthaholic]

That thing better come out of the box and fix you a sandwich for that kinda $$

They better give you a blowjob. The things are uglier than my dog's ass.

Come back when you learn the difference between consumer audio and professional near-field monitoring. Not until.

I don't think they've picked up that they're studio monitors and not home stereo, yet.

Anyhoo - what are you mixing?

For my Monitoring I use Yamaha hs7s (the white ones cuz they're cooler looking) through an audient id22 sound card

I'm actually in between. For years I used JBL but the quality has really suffered since moving all manufacturing to China. Not the sound quality, the components. I'm really tired of mailing off my various JBL for repair, as there are no decent electronic repair places within 200 miles of me. I'm now looking at ADAM, but those Yammys that you have are very good, also. But I've also gotten farther away from recording, and now concentrate on just my sequencing and pre-production. I've just come to the conclusion that other people do it better and have much better ears. So it's worth it for me to pay them instead. I did just buy an amazing interface last year: the MOTU UltraLite AVB. It is the shit!

MOTU UltraLite AVB USB / AVB / iOS Interface

18 x 18 USB/AVB/iOS Audio Interface with 36 Simultaneous Audio Channels, MIDI In and Out, 2 Mic Inputs, 2 HiZ Inputs, 8 Line Outputs, Headphone out, and 8-channel Optical I/O

www.sweetwater.com

 

[Synthaholic]

You don’t get any higher-end than these new Genelics. And when I win the lottery I may buy a pair.

You think that is the highest of the hi-end, Bobo? Gee, do you have another thing coming. A sound engineer with some electronic background can build far better for a fraction of the price, but if you have 20K to plunk down on what amounts to a pair of bookshelf speakers and a sub module, they will be thrilled to take your money.

Just so you know, the most expensive commercially made consumer speakers can run well over $100,000, even over a million dollars.

These speakers you have will have to be raised off the floor to have any kind of imaging and won't be effective much below about 80-120 Hz no matter what they specs claim.

As Grumblenuts correctly stated, class D is fine for the lowest octaves of bass, say, 80 Hz and below, not at all anything I want to subject my ears to for the all-important midrange or treble.

118dB-- -- I assume they mean dB/w/m? That is barely satisfyingly loud, to recreate live music you need more like 130 dB/w/m with HEADROOM.

Techy speakers, built in amps, I'm more inclined to like the sub unit more, other than the cost and ugliness, my last thought is good luck if anything goes wrong-- -- with speakers like that, if they break, you've lost the entire stereo chain short of the source component and presumably, preamp.

If I told you how much better speakers you could buy for less money (in some cases, a tiny fraction of the cost), you probably wouldn't believe me.

Dude, they're studio monitors.

They're what is used to MIX the music, that ENDS UP on your home high end systems.

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

The point of the OP, and the point of studio monitors...is not the same as home stereo. They're supposed to be as uncolored and boring as possible. You're talking about two totally different things, here.

Thank you, G.T. The "expert" is kind of a dope.

No problem. I have a home studio and had to do the same deep dives into all of these things as the rest of is grass roots guys do. Its fun!

Even treating my studio and making the acoustic panels and all was a lot of fun...and a lot of research. I love this stuff.

Here's a good, free resource for you:
REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software

 

[Synthaholic]

Most of my gear is either pro audio brands you never heard of, or custom built.

Who the fuck are you to tell me what I've heard of? I've been a professional musician for 40 years. While I'm sure you've been an asshole for the same amount of time.

Eat shit and die, buttcake. SO WHAT if you've been a musician. So have I. You're not an engineer, you're not a designer and you don't built your own gear. You obviously don't know jack about anything, much less good sound, otherwise you wouldn't have had the audacity to call those speakers the "highest-end audio!" You think only musicians and people in studios buy studio monitors?

Holy shit, you're an idiot.

 

[G.T.]

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

Could've fooled me! No sure what "industry" you're talking about! In my world, one of the true industry reference standards for ages in the studio was the BBC LS3/5a:

LS3/5A - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And they weren't cheap.

70s and 80s and into the 90s industry music, actually even today Dave pensado, Tony maserati, warren huart etc use an hs10 for a reference. Its an old pal.

 

[G.T.]

That thing better come out of the box and fix you a sandwich for that kinda $$

They better give you a blowjob. The things are uglier than my dog's ass.

Come back when you learn the difference between consumer audio and professional near-field monitoring. Not until.

I don't think they've picked up that they're studio monitors and not home stereo, yet.

Anyhoo - what are you mixing?

For my Monitoring I use Yamaha hs7s (the white ones cuz they're cooler looking) through an audient id22 sound card

I'm actually in between. For years I used JBL but the quality has really suffered since moving all manufacturing to China. Not the sound quality, the components. I'm really tired of mailing off my various JBL for repair, as there are no decent electronic repair places within 200 miles of me. I'm now looking at ADAM, but those Yammys that you have are very good, also. But I've also gotten farther away from recording, and now concentrate on just my sequencing and pre-production. I've just come to the conclusion that other people do it better and have much better ears. So it's worth it for me to pay them instead. I did just buy an amazing interface last year: the MOTU UltraLite AVB. It is the shit!

MOTU UltraLite AVB USB / AVB / iOS Interface

18 x 18 USB/AVB/iOS Audio Interface with 36 Simultaneous Audio Channels, MIDI In and Out, 2 Mic Inputs, 2 HiZ Inputs, 8 Line Outputs, Headphone out, and 8-channel Optical I/O

www.sweetwater.com

Nice!! I don't know that interface but its the same price range as the id22 so I'm sure its pretty awesome. Lmk of you ever wanna geek out and bounce any ideas back and forth.

I mix into waves bundles, mostly...and yeah the hs7s seem to translate on almost everything.

 

[G.T.]

You don’t get any higher-end than these new Genelics. And when I win the lottery I may buy a pair.

You think that is the highest of the hi-end, Bobo? Gee, do you have another thing coming. A sound engineer with some electronic background can build far better for a fraction of the price, but if you have 20K to plunk down on what amounts to a pair of bookshelf speakers and a sub module, they will be thrilled to take your money.

Just so you know, the most expensive commercially made consumer speakers can run well over $100,000, even over a million dollars.

These speakers you have will have to be raised off the floor to have any kind of imaging and won't be effective much below about 80-120 Hz no matter what they specs claim.

As Grumblenuts correctly stated, class D is fine for the lowest octaves of bass, say, 80 Hz and below, not at all anything I want to subject my ears to for the all-important midrange or treble.

118dB-- -- I assume they mean dB/w/m? That is barely satisfyingly loud, to recreate live music you need more like 130 dB/w/m with HEADROOM.

Techy speakers, built in amps, I'm more inclined to like the sub unit more, other than the cost and ugliness, my last thought is good luck if anything goes wrong-- -- with speakers like that, if they break, you've lost the entire stereo chain short of the source component and presumably, preamp.

If I told you how much better speakers you could buy for less money (in some cases, a tiny fraction of the cost), you probably wouldn't believe me.

Dude, they're studio monitors.

They're what is used to MIX the music, that ENDS UP on your home high end systems.

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

The point of the OP, and the point of studio monitors...is not the same as home stereo. They're supposed to be as uncolored and boring as possible. You're talking about two totally different things, here.

Thank you, G.T. The "expert" is kind of a dope.

No problem. I have a home studio and had to do the same deep dives into all of these things as the rest of is grass roots guys do. Its fun!

Even treating my studio and making the acoustic panels and all was a lot of fun...and a lot of research. I love this stuff.

Here's a good, free resource for you:
REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software

I've used that in the past, but I bought the sonar works reference package since then. I've found that...let's say my room was 80% toward "perfect," the sonar works took the room to about an 87-88%...its not too bad to use as a flip back and forth

 

[Synthaholic]

The industry standard for decades was the Yamaha hs10s. They were cheap!

Could've fooled me! No sure what "industry" you're talking about! In my world, one of the true industry reference standards for ages in the studio was the BBC LS3/5a:

LS3/5A - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And they weren't cheap.

70s and 80s and into the 90s industry music, actually even today Dave pensado, Tony maserati, warren huart ert use an hs10 for a reference. Its an old pal.

I knew a highly regarded audio engineer who always ran his mixes out to his car to listen on it's stock stereo. Because that's what most people were listening to his mixes on. It just makes sense.

Another great tip is to keep lowering the volume on playback. when you get to the point where it's barely audible, if you can still hear the vocal track over the instruments that's a good indication that they are at a proper place in the mix.

 

[Synthaholic]

That thing better come out of the box and fix you a sandwich for that kinda $$

They better give you a blowjob. The things are uglier than my dog's ass.

Come back when you learn the difference between consumer audio and professional near-field monitoring. Not until.

I don't think they've picked up that they're studio monitors and not home stereo, yet.

Anyhoo - what are you mixing?

For my Monitoring I use Yamaha hs7s (the white ones cuz they're cooler looking) through an audient id22 sound card

I'm actually in between. For years I used JBL but the quality has really suffered since moving all manufacturing to China. Not the sound quality, the components. I'm really tired of mailing off my various JBL for repair, as there are no decent electronic repair places within 200 miles of me. I'm now looking at ADAM, but those Yammys that you have are very good, also. But I've also gotten farther away from recording, and now concentrate on just my sequencing and pre-production. I've just come to the conclusion that other people do it better and have much better ears. So it's worth it for me to pay them instead. I did just buy an amazing interface last year: the MOTU UltraLite AVB. It is the shit!

MOTU UltraLite AVB USB / AVB / iOS Interface

18 x 18 USB/AVB/iOS Audio Interface with 36 Simultaneous Audio Channels, MIDI In and Out, 2 Mic Inputs, 2 HiZ Inputs, 8 Line Outputs, Headphone out, and 8-channel Optical I/O

www.sweetwater.com

Nice!! I don't know that interface but its the same price range as the id22 so I'm sure its pretty awesome. Lmk of you ever wanna geek out and bounce any ideas back and forth.

I mix into waves bundles, mostly...and yeah the hs7s seem to translate on almost everything.

The connections on this thing are great.

• 18 x 18 audio interface with 36 simultaneous audio channels
• Analog I/O includes 2 mic inputs, 2 guitar inputs, 6 line inputs
• 8 line outs including dedicated main left and right outputs
• Convenient front panel headphone output with its own volume knob
• Optical I/O gives you 8 channels of digital input and output
• 48-channel DSP-fueled onboard mixer gives you the added benefit of EQ, compression, and effects
• Web app control from any device with CueMix
• Onboard effects processing gives you vintage-modeled reverb, an LA-2A compressor, and British analog console EQs
• Flexible matrix routing and splitting lets you send any input to any output
• Mixer lets you control routing to and from your computer plus other networked AVB devices
• Compatible with iPad/iOS (w/ Camera Connection Kit) and other USB 2.0 audio class-compliant hosts
• Includes AudioDesk recording software for Mac and Windows

The onboard mixer is great.

And it's highly configurable.

I'll never use the AVB part of it - most people won't - which let's you network units for up to 512 channels of networked audio over ethernet cables, which is insane.

- Overview

motu.com

 

[G.T.]

Holy crap, that's a lot of functionality for $700 : 0