The Homosexual Dilemma

[ninja007]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

of course there is. Plain as day.

 

[80zephyr]

Marriage is the joining of one man and one woman.

Evidence fallacy. Confusing fact with opinion. Thus invalid reasoning, therefore reasoning that is disqualified from consideration by reasonable people.

And of course, factually inaccurate. As in 36 states, marriage is also one man and one man or one woman and one woman. Ignoring this fact doesn't change it.

[quote
This is the consequence of the physiological design of the human species.

What relevance does the physiological design of the species have to do with marriage? Remember, you've said repeatedly that you're not arguing that marriage is about procreation. Without procreation, what relevance does your point have to marriage, its purpose, or a valid basis for it?

That an insignificant minority craves legitimacy through the pretense of marriage doesn't change that... and no American is ever going to tolerate that minority attempting to force them to accept their pretense as anything but... and your pretense that the Advocacy to Normalize Sexual Abnormality did not sue innocent people into bankruptcy, JUST BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT WHICH THEY DISAGREED, demonstrates that you're either a liar, or you're delusional.

Given that a majority of the nation supports gay marriage and gay marriage proponents outweigh opponents by a 12 to 19 points, your assessment of what Americans feel on the matter are of no consequence. As you don't know what you're talking about.

A majority disagrees with you. And that majority is growing. Get used to the idea.

Civil Rights are nothing BUT popular opinion. Which is why they're not worth the paper they're written on.

Factually incorrect. Civil rights may or may not be in line with popular opinion. Interracial marriage bans when it was recognized as unconstitutional was wildly popular. With support in the mid to high 80s. There was very little popular support for interracial marriage, despite the courts recognizing it was a right.

Demonstrating elegantly that civil rights can most definitely be something other than popular opinion. And of course, our law recognizes civil rights. Which might explain the rather horrid record your ilk have had in court.

There are only natural human rights... endowed by God, resting in the authority of God; nature himself.

And which rights did God 'endow'? And according to who? You can't say with anything more than empty opinion. See, plenty of people claim to speak for God. You included.

Using the reasoning of religion, almost all religion is false. Given that by your own reasoning almost all people who claim to speak for God are wrong, what would be the odds that out of all the people in all the world, across the long span of what is, what has been and what will be......that *you* happened to be the guy to get it right? Especially when there's nothing that mandates that anyone did?

The odds of your accuracy are exceedingly small. Rendering your citation of yourself as the conveyer of God's will unreliable. And of course, without reason or logic.

Oh, and for spice, your claims is a classic Appeal to Authority fallacy. Thus invalid reasoning, therefore reasoning that is disqualified from consideration by reasonable people.

And that you people are incapable of understanding that... is why you people are so prone toward foolishness and evil.

More accurately, 'we people' don't accept you as speaking for God. Though I'll be happy to recognize you as the avatar of the Appeal to Authority fallacy. You yourself have said that the appeal to authority fallacy is valid only if its logic and reasoning are valid.

And you can't logically or reasonably establish you claims. Which is why you continue to fail.

Amazing that you use the "majority of people" argument. Tell me, before this "majority" would it have been alright for me to tell you that the "majority" don't want gay marriage and that you should just STFU?

If not, why do you use it to bludgeon others?

Mark

 

[Coyote]

Interesting. Doesn't however change the fact that insisting that marriage and it's legal benefits be limited only to mixed-gender couples violates the Constitutional premise of equal treatment under the law, which is what has struck down a multitude of state bans.

The other thing...the "hearts and minds" aspect...that is exactly what has been going on as well. This wasn't pushed to the SC right off the bat - it has been going through state after state. Polls show, overwelmingly - that support for same sex marriage has been growing with over 50% in favor. To me, though - that's irrelevant because basic rights should never ever be determined by popular opinion.

Equal treatment under the law didn't enshrine the right for everyone to marry whoever they want, which not only has no legal precedent in the United States, but in human history as well. If the right to marry an unrelated person of the opposite sex is applied equally, it cannot violate the 14th Amendment. And those laws are applied equally even in states that offer no protection for sexual orientation...such as mine.

And just so you know, the interracial marriage issue is one that's close to home for me. I married a white woman and enraged members of my family that want to keep Native American bloodlines pure which is almost a religion in my tribe. It's amazing how nobody ever accuses those Indians of racism even though it's deep set in my culture. Double standard perhaps?

You still don't have the right to marry "whoever you want" in the United States. What you cannot do in 35 states plus the District of Columbia is discriminate based on gender. In over 60% of the country you and I both have the right to marry the non familial consenting adult of your choice regardless of gender.

What is amazing to me is that someone in an interracial marriage would even consider denying to gay couples based on gender what was denied them based on race.

What is amazing to me is that anyone can rationalize that gender and race are the same thing when it comes to the subject of marriage.

Marriage is for reproduction, and please, don't start with the "barren" couples argument. Been there, done that.

Mark

How are gender and race different when it comes to the discrimination experienced?

Can you name a state or locality that prohibits civil marriage on an inability to procreate? Can you name a single person in the history of history that was denied a civil marriage license because of an inability or unwillingness to procreate? Are you aware that there are over a million children living in same sex homes?

I'm sorry but saying "been there done that" does not excuse your wishing to put an arbitrary restriction on gay couples that is not put on straight couples.

They are not arbitrary restrictions. Children have always been adopted only by families that meet a certain criteria, that provide the maximum benefit to the child. Child protection services being picky about who gets to adopt children has never been called into question before the rainbow brigade decided they wanted to complete their picture of "marriage" by bringing kids into their insane, kooky world. Every gay cohabitation home is insufficient when compared to a mother father home because it intentionally OMITS a mother or a father. If they're even on the list of potential adoption candidates, they should be dead last. But instead, true to their evil, Leftist form, they are insisting on affirmative action, so they can gain preference over homes that the children benefit from more.

How can you people escape eternal judgment by a just God?

A just God would not condemn people soley on the basis of sexual orientation, he would see into their hearts.

 

[ninja007]

Kids of gay parents fare worse study finds but research draws fire from experts - CBS News


A Major Study Reveals What Happens to Children Raised by Same-Sex Couples - Mic

 

[Skylar]

.

I strongly suspect this has been covered, but if marriage is only for reproduction, does that mean people over 50 or 60 can't get married?

And would that mean they're gay?

.

You're applying the same rules consistently. And that's where you make your mistake. As you assume that the 'procreation' issue is the actual basis of argument. As the inconsistencies demonstrate, it isn't. Its a proxy issue.

Many opponents believe that homosexuality is morally wrong because they're religion tells them it is. That's it. That's the actual basis. The 'procreation' argument is just the hypocrisy that is offered in its place since the 'homosexuality is morally wrong' argument is just arbitrary belief. And consistently indefensible.

If they actually believed the procreation argument....then yeah, 50 and 60 year olds wouldn't be able to marry, even if they were straight. No infertile straight couple could be married. And if any sexually unproductive activity was also immoral, they'd have to condemn their own grandparents every time they had sex, as nanna and pop-pop have no more chance of producing children at their age than a gay couple.

But they don't. Because they don't believe their own bullshit. Its a smoke screen for an irrational and logically basis enmity toward gays.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I have news for you little faggot haters, children are not part of this discussion over rights. I don't give a fuck if it is worse for the children, we don't do what is best for the child in this country because if we did we wouldn't let so many biological but unfit parents raise them. This is about rights and equality. Take your concerns for the children and start doing something about the homes where they are being bounced off the walls and fucked like whores.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Coyote]

You still don't have the right to marry "whoever you want" in the United States. What you cannot do in 35 states plus the District of Columbia is discriminate based on gender. In over 60% of the country you and I both have the right to marry the non familial consenting adult of your choice regardless of gender.

What is amazing to me is that someone in an interracial marriage would even consider denying to gay couples based on gender what was denied them based on race.

What is amazing to me is that anyone can rationalize that gender and race are the same thing when it comes to the subject of marriage.

Marriage is for reproduction, and please, don't start with the "barren" couples argument. Been there, done that.

Mark

How are gender and race different when it comes to the discrimination experienced?

Can you name a state or locality that prohibits civil marriage on an inability to procreate? Can you name a single person in the history of history that was denied a civil marriage license because of an inability or unwillingness to procreate? Are you aware that there are over a million children living in same sex homes?

I'm sorry but saying "been there done that" does not excuse your wishing to put an arbitrary restriction on gay couples that is not put on straight couples.

They are not arbitrary restrictions. Children have always been adopted only by families that meet a certain criteria, that provide the maximum benefit to the child. Child protection services being picky about who gets to adopt children has never been called into question before the rainbow brigade decided they wanted to complete their picture of "marriage" by bringing kids into their insane, kooky world. Every gay cohabitation home is insufficient when compared to a mother father home because it intentionally OMITS a mother or a father. If they're even on the list of potential adoption candidates, they should be dead last. But instead, true to their evil, Leftist form, they are insisting on affirmative action, so they can gain preference over homes that the children benefit from more.

How can you people escape eternal judgment by a just God?

Saying that gays who cannot procreate with each other cannot marry but sterile or infertile couples that cannot procreate with each other do get to get married is setting an arbitrary standard.

Children still are being adopted by families that meet a certain criteria...and being gay does not preclude you in most states.

You have your opinion on children and gays, but it is just your opinion and is not supported by facts and evidence. The facts are that our children are at no disadvantage to yours and studies show that gender is only a factor in parenting in one area...and I guarantee you won't be able to guess what it is.

BS. Every (unbiased) study shows it is worse for children with gay parents.

What "unbiased" studies?

 

[ninja007]

10 Reasons Why Homosexual Marriage is Harmful and Must be Opposed

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Kids of gay parents fare worse study finds but research draws fire from experts - CBS News
A Major Study Reveals What Happens to Children Raised by Same-Sex Couples - Mic

It Doesn't FUCKING matter. It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with Marriage Equality. Got it now?

 

[Coyote]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

 

[bodecea]

How is heterosexuality being shoved in your face?

By the standard *you've* set, where the mere exist of gays in the media is homosexuality being 'shoved down your throat'?

Off the top of my head, the Bachelor and the Bachelorette. The Dating game. Any show that has straight people. Any mention of straight people in the media, news, press, or television.

Typical. 95% of the pop is straight. You act like the gayz should get half of the media.

This is my point. They are pushy, "in your face" and want to flaunt themselves everywhere and I mean EVERYWHERE. It's the way gays today think they're more important than anything else going on in this country, that their private lifestyle must be everyone's business, whether we like it or not. And they continue to peacock their way into every TV show, professional sports, and every other venue of popularity. And my question remains, what if Christians acted like this? I'm sure we'd be considered insufferable assholes. Amazing how that same standard doesn't apply to boorish gays.

Far less so than heterosexuality. On the Bachelor, a guy makes out with a different girl every week. On Jersey Shore, there's a hook up every episode. TV is filled with shows about heterosexual dating, relationships, family, sex, etc. Yet if a football player kisses is boyfriend for one second, homosexuality is 'pushed in your face' and 'pushy'?

That's ludicriously inconsistent.

You simply respond differently to the displays of heterosexuality than you do homosexuality. And your personal enmity to gays doesn't translate into our dilemma. This is your issue.

thats because the gayz are only 3-4% of the pop.

So?

 

[Skylar]

Kids of gay parents fare worse study finds but research draws fire from experts - CBS News


A Major Study Reveals What Happens to Children Raised by Same-Sex Couples - Mic

Wow. This from your own source:

A major study conducted by University of Melbourne researchers has concluded that same-sex parents actually raise children slightly better than straight couples.

A Major Study Reveals What Happens to Children Raised by Same-Sex Couples - Mic

 

[bodecea]

Interesting. Doesn't however change the fact that insisting that marriage and it's legal benefits be limited only to mixed-gender couples violates the Constitutional premise of equal treatment under the law, which is what has struck down a multitude of state bans.

The other thing...the "hearts and minds" aspect...that is exactly what has been going on as well. This wasn't pushed to the SC right off the bat - it has been going through state after state. Polls show, overwelmingly - that support for same sex marriage has been growing with over 50% in favor. To me, though - that's irrelevant because basic rights should never ever be determined by popular opinion.

Equal treatment under the law didn't enshrine the right for everyone to marry whoever they want, which not only has no legal precedent in the United States, but in human history as well. If the right to marry an unrelated person of the opposite sex is applied equally, it cannot violate the 14th Amendment. And those laws are applied equally even in states that offer no protection for sexual orientation...such as mine.

And just so you know, the interracial marriage issue is one that's close to home for me. I married a white woman and enraged members of my family that want to keep Native American bloodlines pure which is almost a religion in my tribe. It's amazing how nobody ever accuses those Indians of racism even though it's deep set in my culture. Double standard perhaps?

You still don't have the right to marry "whoever you want" in the United States. What you cannot do in 35 states plus the District of Columbia is discriminate based on gender. In over 60% of the country you and I both have the right to marry the non familial consenting adult of your choice regardless of gender.

What is amazing to me is that someone in an interracial marriage would even consider denying to gay couples based on gender what was denied them based on race.

What is amazing to me is that anyone can rationalize that gender and race are the same thing when it comes to the subject of marriage.

Marriage is for reproduction, and please, don't start with the "barren" couples argument. Been there, done that.

Mark

How are gender and race different when it comes to the discrimination experienced?

Can you name a state or locality that prohibits civil marriage on an inability to procreate? Can you name a single person in the history of history that was denied a civil marriage license because of an inability or unwillingness to procreate? Are you aware that there are over a million children living in same sex homes?

I'm sorry but saying "been there done that" does not excuse your wishing to put an arbitrary restriction on gay couples that is not put on straight couples.

They are not arbitrary restrictions. Children have always been adopted only by families that meet a certain criteria, that provide the maximum benefit to the child. Child protection services being picky about who gets to adopt children has never been called into question before the rainbow brigade decided they wanted to complete their picture of "marriage" by bringing kids into their insane, kooky world. Every gay cohabitation home is insufficient when compared to a mother father home because it intentionally OMITS a mother or a father. If they're even on the list of potential adoption candidates, they should be dead last. But instead, true to their evil, Leftist form, they are insisting on affirmative action, so they can gain preference over homes that the children benefit from more.

How can you people escape eternal judgment by a just God?

Wrong answer.

 

[Seawytch]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

of course there is. Plain as day.

Your opinion does not equal actual fact. Studies by reputable organizations have found no difference in outcomes. Studies of adopted families found no difference in outcomes. Our children are at no disadvantage to yours...which is irrelevant to a discussion on civil marriage since marriage is not required to procreate and procreation is not required to civilly marry.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

 

[Skylar]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And we can produce heterosexual parents who abuse their kids until the cows come home. But argument by anecdote is a fallacy for a reason.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

It doesn't fucking matter. We aren't dissolving straight marriage because daddy fucked little Susan from 11 onward.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Homosexual Couple Adopted Boy and Molested Him from Infancy
The Thinking Housewife rsaquo Homosexual Couple Adopted Boy and Molested Him from Infancy

 

[JakeStarkey]

80zypher can't understand the logic is the issue, or the constitution, for that matter.

Which logic am I missing? Are you really trying to say that if all people are treated equally, they are being discriminated against? Mark

A person in Illinois has the same innate right to marry the person he chooses as does anyone in Utah.

Opposition to marriage equality is opposition to innate rights and the Constitution.

If you don't like homosexual marriage, then don't marry one of your own sex. No one cares, son.