Zone1 The "Lake of Fire" (Hell) is temporary, punitive, purifying, & restorative

[K9Buck]

I cited scripture, you denied it.

Do you believe that Peter is the rock on which Jesus built his church?

 

[JustAGuy1]

Do you believe that Peter is the rock on which Jesus built his church?

One thing at a time son. This proves you wrong.

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
— Revelation 21:8, ESV[11]

 

[K9Buck]

This disproves everything you've said. People go to the Lake.

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
— Revelation 21:8, ESV[11]

Let me get back to you on the "second death".

 

[ding]

None of us have the ability to be free from God forever.

I disagree. We can choose to be free from God. Those that choose to be free from God will be eternally separated from God. Those that choose to not be free from God, will be eternally united with God in some manner or form and to some degree. That's what I believe.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Let me get back to you on the "second death".

It shows you are wrong.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Let me get back to you on the "second death".

The "second" death follows physical death. Eternal separation from God.

 

[K9Buck]

It shows you are wrong.

If that's true then all of the verses I provided were also wrong and the bible is utterly worthless.

The reality is that you are very proud and pompous and your vanity blinds you to the truth of the scriptures. Engaging with you isn't fruitful nor edifying.

I will respond later about the "second death" for the edification of other readers.

Good bye and good luck.

Proverbs 11:2

English Standard Version

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2 When pride comes, then comes disgrace,
but with the humble is wisdom.

 

[JustAGuy1]

If that's true then all of the verses I provided were also wrong and the bible is utterly worthless.

The reality is that you are very proud and pompous and your vanity blinds you to the truth of the scriptures. Engaging with you isn't fruitful nor edifying.

I will respond later about the "second death" for the edification of other readers.

Good bye and good luck.

Proverbs 11:2​

​

English Standard Version​

​

​

2 When pride comes, then comes disgrace,
but with the humble is wisdom.

Dude, your ego fuels your anger. You simply don't have the ability to understand Scripture as written and in context.

 

[K9Buck]

Every single Bible translation renders anionion in the Matthew verse as "eternal".

Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age

biblehub.com

 

[K9Buck]

Revelation 22:21 esv (Interestingly, the very LAST words of the Bible)

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

 

[SweetSue92]

Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age

biblehub.com

And yet, in the very link here, in the "Englishman's Concordance" to the right, it does NOT list the two Matthew verses you tried to pass off as using this word in your OP, these here:

Mathew 25:46 ESV
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Mathew 25:46 YLT
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during

The Bible mentions AGES and it mentions ETERNITY. Very clearly, the verses above are meant for eternity, as every single translation states.

You need to give this up.

 

[K9Buck]

You need to give this up

Fair enough.

 

[K9Buck]

Revelation 22:21 esv (Interestingly, the very LAST words of the Bible)

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

One final question for you, SweetSue92 What does this verse mean to you?

 

[SweetSue92]

One final question for you, SweetSue92 What does this verse mean to you?

It is important to read every verse in context.

1. This is a letter of a revelation written to a specific group of people. Who are that group of people? If you write a letter to your family and say at the end, "love and kisses to you all", does that mean you send love and kisses to the world?

2. I bolded the parts that would contradict your assertion that God will (unwilfully) save everyone, which you got from the salutation of the letter. Look at the bolded section. Does this seem to imply that God has a plan to save everyone? Does so weak a salutation erase the bolded sections?

3. The entire Gospel and the mission of Jesus ride on eternal salvation and damnation. If you tell people don't worry about it, God will save you anyway--what is their motivation to repent and turn? If you have told them wrong--you have told them really, really wrong. I say this not to chastise you but to explain why I am adamant on this point.

Here is a larger part of the ESV, Rev 22:

10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[c] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.[d] Amen.

Footnotes​

1. Revelation 22:1 Greek he
2. Revelation 22:2 Or the Lamb. In the midst of the street of the city, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life
3. Revelation 22:14 Some manuscripts do his commandments
4. Revelation 22:21 Some manuscripts all the saints

 

[K9Buck]

This is a letter of a revelation written to a specific group of people. Who are that group of people?

To whom is the book of Revelation addressed?

 

[K9Buck]

Mathew 25:46 YLT
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during

Do you believe that "age-during" is a mistranslation?

 

[SweetSue92]

To whom is the book of Revelation addressed?

It is directly in the Prologue. ESV version. Bolding mine:

Prologue

1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants1 the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

Greeting to the Seven Churches

4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:

 

[SweetSue92]

Do you believe that "age-during" is a mistranslation?

It's an anomaly. That is one obscure version among so many. Not another one translates it as anything OTHER than "eternal"--which I believe several other posters have told you.

On Hell:

God is just. We have reason to believe that, as in rewards in Heaven, there will be various "levels" or degree of punishments in Hell. I don't believe the God who invented justice would give someone who lived a benign life the same eternal fate as someone who was a serial rapist and murderer. I have a Biblical case for that--God's justice is all throughout the Bible.

There is no Biblical case for God just "saving" everyone. It is unjust.

 

[K9Buck]

It is directly in the Prologue. ESV version. Bolding mine:

Prologue

1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants1 the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

Greeting to the Seven Churches

4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:

Thanks. I also looked it up.

Why did Jesus want his followers to share aloud the contents of Revelation if his message was only intended for those particular churches?

I believe the last words of "grace to all" mean exactly that, to ALL. Jesus didn't specify his church or believers but ALL.

 

[K9Buck]

Speaking of "grace".

Tituss 2:11 esv
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,