The libertarian view on voluntary Socialism

[Tehon]

Libertarianism gives full permission for voluntary socialism. If people go together and they all agree that they're running their community whether it be a large one, a small one, a medium sized one, or whatever, they should be free to do that, so long as they've rejected the notion of force. But people should be able to opt out.

That's thelibertarian view on voluntary socialism.

With all of the many threads around here debating socialism, I've not ever seen one offered from a libertarian perspective.

So, there we have it.

The phrase "voluntary socialism" is an oxymoron.

Is it really? Are not highways and police and fire service and even the military all examples of voluntary socialism?

Those are social goods by definition.

Socialism is the revolutionary idea of abolishing capital. That includes state capital, btw.

Government intrusion in the economy to bring about a more egalitarian society is social democracy, not socialism.

 

[bripat9643]

Libertarianism gives full permission for voluntary socialism. If people go together and they all agree that they're running their community whether it be a large one, a small one, a medium sized one, or whatever, they should be free to do that, so long as they've rejected the notion of force. But people should be able to opt out.

That's thelibertarian view on voluntary socialism.

With all of the many threads around here debating socialism, I've not ever seen one offered from a libertarian perspective.

So, there we have it.

The phrase "voluntary socialism" is an oxymoron.

Is it really? Are not highways and police and fire service and even the military all examples of voluntary socialism?

Really? When do I voluntarily pay for any of them? The police department and the military are the machinery of compulsion. You have to be joking to say they are examples of VOLUNTARY socialism.

 

[bripat9643]

If you want to be stupid commie then go be one but you aren't a Libertarian.

Well, that's not a very nice thing to say. I'm more of a small l libertarian, though. I'm not a fan if the big L.

But you disregarded my question. I asked if you rejected the notion that people have a right to freeedom of association. It seems so. But I don't want to insinuate anything.

Leftwingers don't agree with freedom of association.

 

[Tehon]

Socialism requires mandatory participation. Mandatory collectivism, not to mention the massive authoritative bureaucracy necessary to run it.

You just described capitalism.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Libertarianism gives full permission for voluntary socialism. If people go together and they all agree that they're running their community whether it be a large one, a small one, a medium sized one, or whatever, they should be free to do that, so long as they've rejected the notion of force. But people should be able to opt out.

That's thelibertarian view on voluntary socialism.

With all of the many threads around here debating socialism, I've not ever seen one offered from a libertarian perspective.

So, there we have it.

The phrase "voluntary socialism" is an oxymoron.

Is it really? Are not highways and police and fire service and even the military all examples of voluntary socialism?

Really? When do I voluntarily pay for any of them? The police department and the military are the machinery of compulsion. You have to be joking to say they are examples of VOLUNTARY socialism.

you are free to leave the country anytime you wish, then you would not have to pay for them, thus they are VOLUNTARY. You choose to pay for them when you choose to live here.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Libertarianism gives full permission for voluntary socialism. If people go together and they all agree that they're running their community whether it be a large one, a small one, a medium sized one, or whatever, they should be free to do that, so long as they've rejected the notion of force. But people should be able to opt out.

That's thelibertarian view on voluntary socialism.

With all of the many threads around here debating socialism, I've not ever seen one offered from a libertarian perspective.

So, there we have it.

When socialism fails as it tends to do the volunteerism ends and people start to die.

 

[fncceo]

The Libertarian Party isn't a very good representative for libertarianism, in my libertarian view. Heh heh.

The idea of a libertarian collective is counter-intuitive.

 

[Flash]

If you want to be stupid commie then go be one but you aren't a Libertarian.

Well, that's not a very nice thing to say. I'm more of a small l libertarian, though. I'm not a fan if the big L.

But you disregarded my question.

No I didn't.

It seems like you are confused.

Libertarians believe in individual liberty.

There is nobody that is a real Libertarian that believes that there should be a right for the government to take money and redistribute it to somebody else.

Without that state sponsored thievery and redistribution there is no socialism.

No Libertarian would ever tell you that he/she should be forced by the state to pay somebody else bills.

Without a massive bureaucracy and the resulting liberty robbing oppression that goes with it there is no socialism.

If you want to be a communist or socialist then go be one but you are going to have to turn in your Libertarian card.

 

[bripat9643]

By its very definition Socialism is not voluntary.

Why could this not be voluntary?

a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

What if I say "hooey" on your so-called voluntary socialism, create a firm to build flat screen televisions, and sell them to the members of your "voluntary" socialist community?

 

[bripat9643]

2018 Platform | Libertarian Party

STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES

We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

This is the very same Libertarian Party who offered Gary Johnson for President. The very same Gary Johnson, btw, who openly professed that he'd send men with guns from the government to force Individuals and groups of Individuals to relinquish their property (cake as it was at the time) to other Individuals and to other groups of Individuals. Effectively a transfer of wealth at the barrel of a government gun.

I agree: Gary Johnson was no libertarian.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

By its very definition Socialism is not voluntary.

Why could this not be voluntary?

a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

What if I say "hooey" on your so-called voluntary socialism, create a firm to build flat screen televisions, and sell them to the members of your "voluntary" socialist community?

I assume you would be asked to leave the community.

 

[fncceo]

create a firm to build flat screen televisions

I dont speak Chinese that well.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

2018 Platform | Libertarian Party

STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES

We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

This is the very same Libertarian Party who offered Gary Johnson for President. The very same Gary Johnson, btw, who openly professed that he'd send men with guns from the government to force Individuals and groups of Individuals to relinquish their property (cake as it was at the time) to other Individuals and to other groups of Individuals. Effectively a transfer of wealth at the barrel of a government gun.

I agree: Gary Johnson was no libertarian.

True, but he was the only candidate that ran that supported smaller government.

 

[Flash]

Socialism requires mandatory participation. Mandatory collectivism, not to mention the massive authoritative bureaucracy necessary to run it.

You just described capitalism.

You are confused.

You don't have to participate in capitalism. If you don't want the products or services created under capitalism then don't buy them.

However, if you live under socialism you are forced to be a slave of the state. There is no option.

 

[bripat9643]

Socialism requires mandatory participation. Mandatory collectivism, not to mention the massive authoritative bureaucracy necessary to run it.

You just described capitalism.

Wrong. Capitalism doesn't require the Department of Transportation or the FBI.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Really? When do I voluntarily pay for any of them? The police department and the military are the machinery of compulsion. You have to be joking to say they are examples of VOLUNTARY socialism.

Yeah, you can't opt out of that. Well, unless one is a mormons or a mennonite.

 

[Tehon]

Socialism requires mandatory participation. Mandatory collectivism, not to mention the massive authoritative bureaucracy necessary to run it.

You just described capitalism.

You are confused.

You don't have to participate in capitalism. If you don't want the products or services created under capitalism then don't buy them.

However, if you live under socialism you are forced to be a slave of the state. There is no option.

All human beings have natural requirements that need to be met to sustain life. If the capitalist economic system is the one in play then we are naturally compelled to participate.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Really? When do I voluntarily pay for any of them? The police department and the military are the machinery of compulsion. You have to be joking to say they are examples of VOLUNTARY socialism.

Yeah, you can't opt out of that. Well, unless one is a mormons or a mennonite.

Of course you can opt out, it is called leaving the country. That is the great thing about this country, nobody is forced to stay here.

 

[bripat9643]

Libertarianism gives full permission for voluntary socialism. If people go together and they all agree that they're running their community whether it be a large one, a small one, a medium sized one, or whatever, they should be free to do that, so long as they've rejected the notion of force. But people should be able to opt out.

That's thelibertarian view on voluntary socialism.

With all of the many threads around here debating socialism, I've not ever seen one offered from a libertarian perspective.

So, there we have it.

The phrase "voluntary socialism" is an oxymoron.

Is it really? Are not highways and police and fire service and even the military all examples of voluntary socialism?

Really? When do I voluntarily pay for any of them? The police department and the military are the machinery of compulsion. You have to be joking to say they are examples of VOLUNTARY socialism.

you are free to leave the country anytime you wish, then you would not have to pay for them, thus they are VOLUNTARY. You choose to pay for them when you choose to live here.

Only douchebag faux libertarians accept that as the definition of "voluntary."

Quit pretending you're a libertarian. You don't understand anything about it.

 

[bripat9643]

Socialism requires mandatory participation. Mandatory collectivism, not to mention the massive authoritative bureaucracy necessary to run it.

You just described capitalism.

You are confused.

You don't have to participate in capitalism. If you don't want the products or services created under capitalism then don't buy them.

However, if you live under socialism you are forced to be a slave of the state. There is no option.

All human beings have natural requirements that need to be met to sustain life. If the capitalist economic system is the one in play then we are naturally compelled to participate.

Nature compels you to eat, not capitalism.