The Myth of Sanders’ Socialism

[gipper]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

Bernie wants to raise taxes, he can go to hell.

Yeah...your income tax might increase of $100, but now all Americans have healthcare and access to a college education. We can’t have that. God forbid.

Yeah, and I’ll get my $2,500 a year savings in healthcare any day now.

Yeah HC is so cheap in America. Yippee.

 

[Weatherman2020]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

Bernie wants to raise taxes, he can go to hell.

Yeah...your income tax might increase of $100, but now all Americans have healthcare and access to a college education. We can’t have that. God forbid.

Yeah, and I’ll get my $2,500 a year savings in healthcare any day now.

Yeah HC is so cheap in America. Yippee.

Skyrocketed ever since Obama ‘fixed’ it. Plus I lost my doctor. But figured you’d lie for Hopeycare. All socialists lie. It’s a requirement.

 

[Flash]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

The 1%? You mean like the Clintons and Bidens? Both families filthy rich with the corruption of selling government influence.

The Kennedy's got into the 1% in money and power by bootlegging. Even Commie Bernie and Pocahontas are rich compared to the average American.

Then there are Bloomberg, Soros, Steyer and all the billionaires and mega millionaires that contributed to Obama in 2008 and 2012 not to mention the limousine Liberal Hollywood and Silicon Valley super rich.

 

[Flash]

Commie Bernie is an asshole. Hell bent to get power to steal the money made under capitalism to pay for turning this country into a Venezuelan type socialist shithole.

Of course Biden isn't much better.

 

[Flash]

Commie Bernie being an asshole and a disaster for America is no myth.

Of course that is true of all the Democrats.

 

[Flash]

 

[airplanemechanic]

Yea how dare people refer to Bernard Sanders as exactly what he labels himself:



It's not a fucking myth. Get lost dumbass OP.

 

[gipper]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

The 1%? You mean like the Clintons and Bidens? Both families filthy rich with the corruption of selling government influence.

The Kennedy's got into the 1% in money and power by bootlegging. Even Commie Bernie and Pocahontas are rich compared to the average American.

Then there are Bloomberg, Soros, Steyer and all the billionaires and mega millionaires that contributed to Obama in 2008 and 2012 not to mention the limousine Liberal Hollywood and Silicon Valley super rich.

Yeah. Them and a few more.

LOL. You think I’m a Democrat.

 

[gipper]

There's definitely a lot of it on the Left, this simplistic and shallow behavior. I look at the Right screaming SOCIALISM at everything that moves in essentially the same way as the Left screaming RACISM at everything that moves.

As I always say, these two ends can be so similar. And worse, destructive.
.

What is missing in this debate is honesty, as always.

I would guess when FDR pushed for social security, many called him a socialist. I don’t believe most Americans consider Canada and Western Europe socialist nations, yet Bernie is advocating for policies much like those nations.

The extreme wealthy seem to really like socialism and our government does all it can to give it to them. Bernie is demanding the government help the poor and working class, like they do for the 1%. For this, he’s labeled a god damned commie. LOL.

The problem I have with Sanders, is that he, and those like him, think the solution is MORE government.

I think how we got into the mess we are in, is government in the first place. I'm not convinced more will make things any better.

I do not, really. . . understand, how we can radically improve things, and get rid of all the privatized secret intel agencies and the Deep State, w/o something serious, but you are correct, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Sanders and his ideas represent.

If you took away the nationalist trappings of fascism, Sanders and his cohorts are really, much closer to the type of governing that the fascists of WWII used economically.

Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are Not Socialists, So What are They?
". . .If the socialist wing of the Democratic Party are not socialists, what are they? First and foremost, they are unshackled welfare statists, directed by a morality that values, above all, a form of outcome-based egalitarianism. As a result, they favor all-encompassing government programs that they believe will minimize income inequality and the outcomes that flow from such inequalities. As we have seen, this includes a steeply progressive income tax system, government control of payments for health care services, tuition-free higher education, guaranteed employment, etc. Note that none of their proposed programs seeks to nationalize these industries. What they do seek to do is equalize the benefits that these industries provide through one or another kind of government payment scheme.

In the area of economic policy these self-proclaimed socialists embrace, not socialism, but what is called “dirigisme”, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary simply defines as a system that embraces “economic planning and control by the state” and the Collins English Dictionary describes as “control by the state of economic and social matters.”

But both Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica have more refined definitions that I think captures the essence of what is advocated by Sanders, et. al. Wikipedia states:

Dirigisme or dirigism (from French diriger, meaning ‘to direct’) is an economic system where the state exerts a strong directive influence over investment. It designates a capitalist economy in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory one.

According to The Encyclopedia Britannica:

dirigiste [adjective form] policies often include centralized economic planning, directing investment, controlling wages and prices, and supervising labour markets.

Dirigisme is considered to have been “an inherent aspect” of the fascist economies of post-WWI Italy, Spain, and Germany, which have been described as being “based on private individuals being allowed property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state.”

Dirigisme - Wikipedia

A other problem with Sanders is that he endorsed Hillary Clinton.

Agreed. That is a problem. She exemplified everything he rails against. He tries to appease the D party and for this, they kick him in the balls. Hopefully he’s learned something.

I'm of the opinion that there is nothing to learn.

. . but then, I am cynical. I believe he is aware of what is going on, and he does it on purpose.


I don't think he was ever really that obtuse about what was going on in Nicaragua, or Cuba, or the Soviet Union, therefor, he is not obtuse about the corporate control of the duopoly of both parties, the illusion of choice, or his place in sheep-dogging for the DNC.

Oh I’m cynical too. But what choice do we have?

 

[gipper]

Yea how dare people refer to Bernard Sanders as exactly what he labels himself:



It's not a fucking myth. Get lost dumbass OP.

Fuck off.

 

[westwall]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

Sooooo, we're supposed to ignore the 50 plus years of him espousing and supporting dictators and fascists.

Is that what you are saying?

 

[gipper]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

Sooooo, we're supposed to ignore the 50 plus years of him espousing and supporting dictators and fascists.

Is that what you are saying?

Hell our government whether lead by a D or an R has supported lots of dictators. Still does. FDR initially thought Hitler and Mussolini were great.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

The Myth of Sanders’ Socialism

What is the proper name for his preferred form of government/economics?
Communism? Marxism? Maoism? Leninism? Trotskyism? Something else?

Please explain.

 

[westwall]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

Sooooo, we're supposed to ignore the 50 plus years of him espousing and supporting dictators and fascists.

Is that what you are saying?

Hell our government whether lead by a D or an R has supported lots of dictators. Still does. FDR initially thought Hitler and Mussolini were great.

Sanders is a candidate NOW, and he has never denounced a single dictator. In fact he still supports them, even after they are dead.

Face it. Sanders is a Marxist socialist. We have 50 years of him telling us he is.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist.

This is true. I'd say communist is more accurate.

"You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants when children are hungry in this country," Sanders told John Harwood of NBC

In 1980 he was an “elector” in the Socialist Workers Party (founded by communists expelled from Russia for supporting Leon Trotsky).

He supported and campaigned for the communist SWP and maintained a close relationship with its senior members. While Democrats campaigned for President Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Walter Mondale in 1984, Sanders spent the Reagan era supporting fringe Marxists with no chance of reaching the White House.

During Pulley's White House run in 1980, he called for the abolition of the U.S. military and the nationalization of "virtually all private industry," as well as the abolition of the military budget and the establishment of "official ... 'solidarity' with the revolutionary regimes in Iran, Nicaragua, Grenada and Cuba," according to a New York Times report at the time.

During that same campaign, Pulley hailed the Cuban revolution as a model for the U.S. and claimed that "racism [had] been abolished" on the island. His running mate, Matilde Zimmermann, described the contention that Cubans lived under a dictatorship as American "propaganda."

"At a time when the Democratic and Republican parties are intellectually and spiritually bankrupt, it is imperative for radical voices to be heard which offer fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology. I wish Mel Mason good luck on his campaign," Sanders wrote in a letter to the Militant in January 1984.

In the same issue, the newspaper's editorial board called for the "nationalization of the steel industry," as part of a required "revolutionary struggle by workers to form" a new government.

In 1984, Sanders was thanked by the party for his remarks at a 1984 SWP campaign kickoff. "On behalf of Mel Mason and Andrea Gonzàlez, I want to thank you for your message to the rally to kick off the Socialist Workers Presidential Campaign," reads a letter kept in the Sanders archives.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Yea how dare people refer to Bernard Sanders as exactly what he labels himself:



It's not a fucking myth. Get lost dumbass OP.

Fuck off.

Yea fuck you. You can't defend your own fucking thread. Go suck a big dick, make butt plug happy.

 

[gipper]

Yea how dare people refer to Bernard Sanders as exactly what he labels himself:



It's not a fucking myth. Get lost dumbass OP.

Fuck off.

Yea fuck you. You can't defend your own fucking thread. Go suck a big dick, make butt plug happy.

Defend? Idiots like you can’t debate. You post in my thread attacking me. You offer nothing. So again, FUCK OFF.

 

[gipper]

It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist.

This is true. I'd say communist is more accurate.

"You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants when children are hungry in this country," Sanders told John Harwood of NBC

In 1980 he was an “elector” in the Socialist Workers Party (founded by communists expelled from Russia for supporting Leon Trotsky).

He supported and campaigned for the communist SWP and maintained a close relationship with its senior members. While Democrats campaigned for President Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Walter Mondale in 1984, Sanders spent the Reagan era supporting fringe Marxists with no chance of reaching the White House.

During Pulley's White House run in 1980, he called for the abolition of the U.S. military and the nationalization of "virtually all private industry," as well as the abolition of the military budget and the establishment of "official ... 'solidarity' with the revolutionary regimes in Iran, Nicaragua, Grenada and Cuba," according to a New York Times report at the time.

During that same campaign, Pulley hailed the Cuban revolution as a model for the U.S. and claimed that "racism [had] been abolished" on the island. His running mate, Matilde Zimmermann, described the contention that Cubans lived under a dictatorship as American "propaganda."

"At a time when the Democratic and Republican parties are intellectually and spiritually bankrupt, it is imperative for radical voices to be heard which offer fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology. I wish Mel Mason good luck on his campaign," Sanders wrote in a letter to the Militant in January 1984.

In the same issue, the newspaper's editorial board called for the "nationalization of the steel industry," as part of a required "revolutionary struggle by workers to form" a new government.

In 1984, Sanders was thanked by the party for his remarks at a 1984 SWP campaign kickoff. "On behalf of Mel Mason and Andrea Gonzàlez, I want to thank you for your message to the rally to kick off the Socialist Workers Presidential Campaign," reads a letter kept in the Sanders archives.

Ancient history. Stop being a dupe of the billionaires.

 

[gipper]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

Sooooo, we're supposed to ignore the 50 plus years of him espousing and supporting dictators and fascists.

Is that what you are saying?

Hell our government whether lead by a D or an R has supported lots of dictators. Still does. FDR initially thought Hitler and Mussolini were great.

Sanders is a candidate NOW, and he has never denounced a single dictator. In fact he still supports them, even after they are dead.

Face it. Sanders is a Marxist socialist. We have 50 years of him telling us he is.

Yeah and Obama was born in Kenya.

 

[gipper]

True ignorance is common in the land of the (not) free. The billionaire’s media sees to that. This is yet another perfect example. This myth is believed by many on the right and left. The 1% who run everything don’t much like Bernie, so their media makes sure to dupe millions into thinking as they do.

MARCH 5, 2020
The Myth of Sanders’ “Socialism”
by M. G. PIETY

Fox News has an all-out frontal assault on Bernie Sanders’ purported “socialism.” It is a sad statement on the level of ignorance in this country that anyone could take seriously the charge that Sanders is a socialist. What Sanders is advocating is something approaching the social-welfare systems of other economically developed countries and that’s a far cry from the socialism Fox News is using as a boogeyman to frighten conservatives. The “socialism” Fox is decrying is the old-fashioned Stalinist-Maoist kind where all important industries are nationalized, most of the private property of the wealthy is seized by the state, and there are no such things as individual rights and freedoms because the very idea of “individuals” is considered capitalist propaganda.

The Myth of Sanders' "Socialism" - CounterPunch.org

The Myth of Sanders’ Socialism

What is the proper name for his preferred form of government/economics?
Communism? Marxism? Maoism? Leninism? Trotskyism? Something else?

Please explain.

Marxist is best. No?