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The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread
- Thread starter Truthseeker420
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Right and that testimony very well may never come in because it's hearsay, by now it's soooooooooo HEARsay, it probably doesn't even resemble the other 2 times she changed it. Which leaves them with precisely zero evidence.
Interesting. If they cannot rebut the evidence offered by the defense, then how could the State ever meet it's overall burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt once the affirmative defense is adequately raised?
Thy can't say, "but but but, Zimmerman FOLLOWED Trayvon" like the idiot po-it keeps whining about. For that has nothing to do with rebutting the affirmative defense.
What CAN they point to?
I don't know, I'm trying to figure that out. If you take all the propaganda away and look at the evidence specifically, there isn't much there. Unless there's some GOTCHA! thing we don't know about, I don't see what they've got.
Kooshdakhaa
Gold Member
Testicle, I mean Testarosa, or is it Testosterone?
LOL
How you doing today sugar?!
Your standard m.o, there, po-it, is to call your opponents in a debate "girl."
And what the hell's wrong with that? At 60 years old, I love it when men call me girl. One of my neighbors does that. "How ya doin' today, girl?" he asks. I LOVE him!!! : )
- Moderator
- #2,085
The girlfreind was not there.
And yes. If I track it correctly, she has "wavered" a bit on the matter. Consistency is not her strong suit.
If that's what they have to go with, I guess I can understand why the prosecutor is acting a bit desperate.
Right and that testimony very well may never come in because it's hearsay, by now it's soooooooooo HEARsay, it probably doesn't even resemble the other 2 times she changed it. Which leaves them with precisely zero evidence.
Hearsay.....Hersay......Shesay......
Let's wait and see if she's called to testify to see what she says this time.
Right and that testimony very well may never come in because it's hearsay, by now it's soooooooooo HEARsay, it probably doesn't even resemble the other 2 times she changed it. Which leaves them with precisely zero evidence.
Hearsay.....Hersay......Shesay......
Let's wait and see if she's called to testify to see what she says this time.
I'm all about the trial drama, bring her on!
Testicle, I mean Testarosa, or is it Testosterone?
LOL
How you doing today sugar?!
Your zero facts are showing again King Shadowy, you really need to stop that.
The Ferrari Testarossa is a 12-cylinder mid-engine sports car manufactured by Ferrari, which went into production in 1984 as the successor to the Ferrari Berlinetta Boxer. The Pininfarina-designed car was originally produced from 1984 to 1991, with two model revisions following the ending of Testarossa production and the introduction of the 512 TR and F512 M which were produced from 1992 to 1996. Almost 10,000 Testarossas, 512 TRs, and F512 Ms were produced, making it one of the most common Ferrari models, despite its high price and exotic design. In 1995, the F512 M retailed for $220,000. Testarossa means "redhead" in Italian.
SantaFeWay
Silver Member
- May 19, 2013
- 1,198
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What's the deal? Why such a long delay? Chatting about tomorrow up at sidebar?
SantaFeWay
Silver Member
- May 19, 2013
- 1,198
- 248
- 98
what!? Why are there a bunch of empty seats in the courtroom? I'm going in there monday!
do it!
What's the deal? Why such a long delay? Chatting about tomorrow up at sidebar?
Probably doing the schedule.
The George Zimmerman trial is coming up quick. The trial is set to begin on 10 June, 2013.
FROM THE AP:
SANFORD, Fla. A new judge will hear how close lawyers are to being ready for trial in the murder case of a Florida neighborhood watch volunteer accused of shooting an unarmed teenager.
George Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder, is not expected to be in court Wednesday for the procedural hearing.
Judge Debra S. Nelson was appointed to the case in late August after an appeals' court found that the former judge made disparaging remarks about Zimmerman's character and advocated for additional charges against him during a bond hearing.
The 29-year-old is charged with shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in February. Zimmerman has claimed self-defense and is pleading not guilty.
From: Richard E. Hornsby, PA--
Penalties for Second Degree Murder
The crime of Second Degree Murder is classified as a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 10 offense severity ranking under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code.
If convicted of Second Degree Murder, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 16¾ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:
Up to Life in prison.
Up to Life on probation.
Up to $10,000 in fines.
10/20/Life
Under Florida's 10-20-Life law, a person who uses a Firearm to commit Second Degree Murder must be sentenced to a minimum-mandatory prison sentence of 25 years. [1]
Defenses to Second Degree Murder
In addition to the pretrial defenses and trial defenses that can be raised in any criminal case, specific defenses to the crime of Second Degree Murder are:
Excusable Homicide
The killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, under any one of the following three circumstances:
When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent, or
When the killing occurs by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or
When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune resulting from a sudden combat, if a dangerous weapon is not used and the killing is not done in a cruel or unusual manner.
Justifiable Homicide
The killing of a human being is justifiable homicide and lawful if done while resisting an attempt by someone to kill you or to commit a felony against you.
Self Defense
Also known as the justified use of deadly force, self defense is a defense to the crime of Second Degree Murder. Please view the Florida Self Defense section for more information.
I see all the loopholes you raise, except in Trayvon Martin's murder, stereo-typing and total hate were factors also leading to the unnecessary murder of a teenage boy on public easement (regardless of victim's history) -
I just detest the fact that some people think they have the right to determine where and when some people can or cannot go. I look forward to hearing why George Zimmerman really thought Trayvon Martin was such a threat that he, Zimmerman, felt he had to stalk and eventually kill Martin who was on public easement.
what!? Why are there a bunch of empty seats in the courtroom? I'm going in there monday!
do it!
My Monday's are horrid at work, maybe Tues. or Wed. I'll go in there a few times before this is over. Good excuse for #tequila lunch ;-)
No court tomorrow!! Yay!
The George Zimmerman trial is coming up quick. The trial is set to begin on 10 June, 2013.
FROM THE AP:
SANFORD, Fla. A new judge will hear how close lawyers are to being ready for trial in the murder case of a Florida neighborhood watch volunteer accused of shooting an unarmed teenager.
George Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder, is not expected to be in court Wednesday for the procedural hearing.
Judge Debra S. Nelson was appointed to the case in late August after an appeals' court found that the former judge made disparaging remarks about Zimmerman's character and advocated for additional charges against him during a bond hearing.
The 29-year-old is charged with shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in February. Zimmerman has claimed self-defense and is pleading not guilty.
From: Richard E. Hornsby, PA--
Penalties for Second Degree Murder
The crime of Second Degree Murder is classified as a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 10 offense severity ranking under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code.
If convicted of Second Degree Murder, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 16¾ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:
Up to Life in prison.
Up to Life on probation.
Up to $10,000 in fines.
10/20/Life
Under Florida's 10-20-Life law, a person who uses a Firearm to commit Second Degree Murder must be sentenced to a minimum-mandatory prison sentence of 25 years. [1]
Defenses to Second Degree Murder
In addition to the pretrial defenses and trial defenses that can be raised in any criminal case, specific defenses to the crime of Second Degree Murder are:
Excusable Homicide
The killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, under any one of the following three circumstances:
When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent, or
When the killing occurs by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or
When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune resulting from a sudden combat, if a dangerous weapon is not used and the killing is not done in a cruel or unusual manner.
Justifiable Homicide
The killing of a human being is justifiable homicide and lawful if done while resisting an attempt by someone to kill you or to commit a felony against you.
Self Defense
Also known as the justified use of deadly force, self defense is a defense to the crime of Second Degree Murder. Please view the Florida Self Defense section for more information.
I see all the loopholes you raise, except in Trayvon Martin's murder, stereo-typing and total hate were factors also leading to the unnecessary murder of a teenage boy on public easement (regardless of victim's history) -
I just detest the fact that some people think they have the right to determine where and when some people can or cannot go. I look forward to hearing why George Zimmerman really thought Trayvon Martin was such a threat that he, Zimmerman, felt he had to stalk and eventually kill Martin who was on public easement.
There is no evidence of stereo typing or hate. In fact, they are still selecting a jury. But if you want to discuss the trial, you have come to the right place. Hopefully you have the rationale inside of you to be as objective as you expect others to be.
Welcome.
WorldWatcher
Gold Member
Soot, Ring Abrasion and Stippling? The only thing missing is a fucking muzzle impression.
It appears to me that to call it "intermediary" is misleading.
It appears to be closer to accurate to call it a (nearly) "close contact" wound.
the lab called it a contact shot
http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/FDLE-Lab-report.pdf
http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/FDLE-Lab-report.pdf AT pdf page 19 of 21. The analysis report says that the residue and physical effects were "consistent with" a contact shot.
I find that ^ pretty compelling.
Since it only says "consistent with," there is a pretty fair chance that the prosecution will seek to parse that finding. But, I doubt they will press it too far. A pretty good set of underlying scientific bases exist for the scientific conclusion reported; and I suspect that the prosecutor will not want to highlight the essentially inescapable conclusion.
It is highly significant scientific/forensic physical evidence for the defense, though.
It AT LEAST corroborates Zimmerman's account and does nothing to support any other view of the evidence. Zimmerman didn't light the kid up from a distance. With the wound evidence on Zimmerman, the grass evidence on Martin's pants and Zimmerman's jacket, and with the close contact nature of the gunshot, it is really not reasonable to believe anything other than that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman at the moment Zimmerman fired the shot. Plus, it also looks damn likely that Zimmerman was getting a beat down.
The defense of "justification" looks strong.
That's kind of presumptuous. The stippling and ME's report shows only that the muzzle of the weapon was very close to Martin's chest at the time it was fired. Being either in direct contract or in the 4-6 inch range. That is it, it does not confirm Zimmerman's story and there is actually another reasonable explanation that fit's all the evidence.
Evidence:
1. Martin's wound showing close proximity of the muzzle.
2. Zimmerman having GSR on his hands.
3. Zimmerman not having GSR on the front of his jacket or sleeves.
4. Zimmerman not having any Martin DNA for blood evidencec on the front of his jacket.
5. The trajectory of the bullet path being perpendicular to the plan of Martin's chest (in other words a straight in shot.)
6. Grass stains on Zimmerman's knees.
7. No grass stains on Zimmerman's jacket (IIRC, there we no stains on Zimmerman's jacket, it was Ofc. Smith (first resonder) that had in his report that the back of Zimmerman's jacket was wet and had grass on it, having grass on it and having grass stains are two different things.)
2. Zimmerman having GSR on his hands.
3. Zimmerman not having GSR on the front of his jacket or sleeves.
4. Zimmerman not having any Martin DNA for blood evidencec on the front of his jacket.
5. The trajectory of the bullet path being perpendicular to the plan of Martin's chest (in other words a straight in shot.)
6. Grass stains on Zimmerman's knees.
7. No grass stains on Zimmerman's jacket (IIRC, there we no stains on Zimmerman's jacket, it was Ofc. Smith (first resonder) that had in his report that the back of Zimmerman's jacket was wet and had grass on it, having grass on it and having grass stains are two different things.)
Zimmerman's Story:
1. Zimmerman was on the ground at the time the weapons was discharged.
2. Martin was on top of him "whaling" (yes he used that term in the audio tapes) on Zimmerman's face, eventually they struggled for the gun which means Martin was bent over Zimmerman while being on top.
2. Martin was on top of him "whaling" (yes he used that term in the audio tapes) on Zimmerman's face, eventually they struggled for the gun which means Martin was bent over Zimmerman while being on top.
Scenerio #1:
Two people are struggling on the ground, on is on the bottom and the other is on top bent over trying to get control of a firearm. The person on the bottom shoots the person in the chest, the person dies and the person on the bottom rolls the dead body off.
Scenerio #2:
Two people are struggling on the ground, on is on the bottom and the other is on top. The person on top has had enough and tries to get off OR the person on the bottom gains enough leverage to push the person on top off. During body separation the person that was on the bottom draws his weapon, extends his arm, points the weapon a the center of mass of the person that was on top and pulls the trigger.
Issues:
1. When a firearm is discharge it generates GSR which exists the muzzle (contributing to the stippling of the skin (due to close proximity) but is also expelled out the ejection port (on a semi-automatic). With two bodies close together, no GSR was found on Zimmerman (except for his hands) indicative that his arm was extended way from his body. But with the chests of both parties close together, the shooters arm would have extended through the other body.
2. With the chests close together and Martin over Zimmerman, there was no blood evidence transferred to Zimmerman jacket.
3. The trajectory of the bullet being perpendicular to the plan of the chest would be difficult and unnatural to achieve for two reasons: (1) Zimmerman would have had to draw the weapon and maneuver it between the struggling bodies, and (2) he describes he and Martin struggling for the weapon. So a perpendicular chest shot under those conditions? I'd like to see some expert testimony on that.
2. With the chests close together and Martin over Zimmerman, there was no blood evidence transferred to Zimmerman jacket.
3. The trajectory of the bullet being perpendicular to the plan of the chest would be difficult and unnatural to achieve for two reasons: (1) Zimmerman would have had to draw the weapon and maneuver it between the struggling bodies, and (2) he describes he and Martin struggling for the weapon. So a perpendicular chest shot under those conditions? I'd like to see some expert testimony on that.
Scenario #2 is actually a more logical possibility given the available evidence then is scenario #1. Now this would depend on witnesses that actually were looking at the scene at the exact time of the shooting and can confirm the muzzle flashes occurred when Martin was on top. If that is the case, then scenario #2 is eliminated, but my recollection is that the neighbors were not on scene when the weapon was fired.
>>>>
Last edited:
the lab called it a contact shot
http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/FDLE-Lab-report.pdf
http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/FDLE-Lab-report.pdf AT pdf page 19 of 21. The analysis report says that the residue and physical effects were "consistent with" a contact shot.
I find that ^ pretty compelling.
Since it only says "consistent with," there is a pretty fair chance that the prosecution will seek to parse that finding. But, I doubt they will press it too far. A pretty good set of underlying scientific bases exist for the scientific conclusion reported; and I suspect that the prosecutor will not want to highlight the essentially inescapable conclusion.
It is highly significant scientific/forensic physical evidence for the defense, though.
It AT LEAST corroborates Zimmerman's account and does nothing to support any other view of the evidence. Zimmerman didn't light the kid up from a distance. With the wound evidence on Zimmerman, the grass evidence on Martin's pants and Zimmerman's jacket, and with the close contact nature of the gunshot, it is really not reasonable to believe anything other than that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman at the moment Zimmerman fired the shot. Plus, it also looks damn likely that Zimmerman was getting a beat down.
The defense of "justification" looks strong.
That's kind of presumptuous. The stippling and ME's report shows only that the muzzle of the weapon was very close to Martin's chest at the time it was fired. Being either in direct contract or in the 4-6 inch range. That is it, it does not confirm Zimmerman's story and there is actually another reasonable explanation that fit's all the evidence.
Scenerio #2:
Two people are struggling on the ground, on is on the bottom and the other is on top. The person on top has had enough and tries to get off OR the person on the bottom gains enough leverage to push the person on top off. During body separation the person that was on the bottom draws his weapon, extends his arm, points the weapon a the center of mass of the person that was on top and pulls the trigger.
but my recollection is that the neighbors were not on scene when the weapon was fired.
>>>>
I'm liking Scenario #2
I don't believe there are any witness accounts specifically at the time of the shot - only "heard the shot" not "saw the shot"
Jury selection drags into Day 5 in George Zimmerman murder trial | News - Home
M O'M live statement on now.
M O'M live statement on now.
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