The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[deltex1]

If..............

 

[CrazedScotsman]

911 and the Rachael.

Be specific please...I honestly want to know how "911 and Rachael" prove that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin after being asked not to do so. What exactly makes you so sure?

What specifically on the 911 call proves this? How could Rachael know? She wasn't there either, was she?

Please, I'd really like to know.

Still nothing?! Really?

All I all hear from the Martin supporters is how Zimmerman followed and confronted him. This is in direct conflict with Zimmerman's sworn testimony, but nobody can point with any shred of specificity how they know Zimmerman lied.

Pathetic I say. Pathetic that you'd have your mind made up without knowing facts.

From the evidence and testimony so far, it tells a different story and it's reversed. From all we've heard so far, people tend to intentionally forget that Jeantel said that Martin told her he was behind the building he was staying at. That right there says Martin went back because he was killed 100 yards from where he was staying.

 

[deltex1]

The preponderance of talking heads give today to the defense...I agree.

 

[Ernie S.]

Yeah I've been in way to many fights I guess. I admit my experience is probably much different than Zimmerman. It's really hard for me to imagine being weak and defenseless like Zimmerman had to be to get into this situation. I don't consider shooting my way out of a fist fight, fighting my way out of it.

I suppose he did try to fight his way out. He also called for help, but the only person in a position to come to his aid elected to call 911 instead.

As a last resort, he drew his weapon and fired. Would you rather die or shoot if you were unable to fight off your attacker with your hands?

I don't believe in the no win scenario.

Of course not, because a black kid got shot. I WILL defend myself with whatever force necessary, OK?

 

[JakeStarkey]

if you did, i didn't see it, likely i just missed it, happens more often when you have such a huge thread

Yup, you missed it. I agree with this:

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

This is what the jury is going to have decide, and from what I hear 2nd and 3d hand, prosecution is not doing well.

 

[Ernie S.]

I can respect that...But reality is these kids are out there and all over the place...do we follow these kids in the dark and rain packing a pistol?...or is there something else that could be done? So that Im not on trial facing life in prison for shooting a 17 year old with a bag of skittles in his pockets?

Anyone else?

Yes we follow them until we don't need to follow teenagers around in the dark. The whole point of neighborhood watch is not to prevent situations like Martin/Zimmerman, but to prevent break-ins and robberies. That is what Zimmerman was trying to do.

The problem is not armed men trying to prevent crime. The problem is criminals. This is not to say Martin was about to commit a crime, just that Zimmerman was trying to perform his function and reacting as a reasonable person in his capacity would given today's society.

I think GZ was trying to do the right thing...dont doubt that for a second. Its just my opinion that given the situation again, his approach would be different. It would start with identifying yourself and speaking to a kid you dont recognize in the neighborhood...if there is a problem after that then take the appropriate steps.

The Martins just settled a million dollar lawsuit from the Homeowners association. Not sure what the by laws or written procedures of the neighborhood watch are, but Im guessing following a kid in the dark packing a pistol without identifying yourself is not one of them. That may have cost the HA a million.

In our NH watch, you are not to pursue or follow in the dark...you report. I wonder why?

We took orders from a police officer. Sometimes it was necessary to follow on foot to maintain eyes on a subject. I would not comply unless armed. I essentially always was unless I was actually in a patrol car with an officer. Even then, there was a weapon available to me.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Convicted or not, this was still ultimately Zimmerman's fault.

Yes, choices have consequences. He did not need to get out of his car. But . . . if the statute requirements are not met, then he may well be found not guilty.

 

[MeBelle]

We created this thread for members to post updates from the trial, and to discuss to the trial itself. This thread is in Zone 2, please remember Zone 2 rules when posting in this thread.

We are hoping this will help with reported posts, deleted posts, and closing of threads. Enjoy!

Luissa, could you combine this thread with this one?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/295416-zimmerman-trial.html
This is the 'unofficial' trial watcher and update thread.
[MENTION=11865]Luissa[/MENTION]

Or never mind!?! I see this one is in politics, the other in Law and Justice.

Whiplash will ensue shortly

 

[jon_berzerk]

Be specific please...I honestly want to know how "911 and Rachael" prove that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin after being asked not to do so. What exactly makes you so sure?

What specifically on the 911 call proves this? How could Rachael know? She wasn't there either, was she?

Please, I'd really like to know.

Still nothing?! Really?

All I all hear from the Martin supporters is how Zimmerman followed and confronted him. This is in direct conflict with Zimmerman's sworn testimony, but nobody can point with any shred of specificity how they know Zimmerman lied.

Pathetic I say. Pathetic that you'd have your mind made up without knowing facts.

From the evidence and testimony so far, it tells a different story and it's reversed. From all we've heard so far, people tend to intentionally forget that Jeantel said that Martin told her he was behind the building he was staying at. That right there says Martin went back because he was killed 100 yards from where he was staying.

omara has not forgotten about that

he also knows that the debris field at the crime scene

travels from the T in the sidewalk where zimmerman

says he was to the spot where martins body was found

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

I suppose he did try to fight his way out. He also called for help, but the only person in a position to come to his aid elected to call 911 instead.

As a last resort, he drew his weapon and fired. Would you rather die or shoot if you were unable to fight off your attacker with your hands?

I don't believe in the no win scenario.

Of course not, because a black kid got shot. I WILL defend myself with whatever force necessary, OK?

That's your right, under self defense.

Self Defense

 

[IrishTexanChick]

Where the hell is Tink?

 

[MarcATL]

I'm concerned about the almost all-white upper-middle class jury for this reason...

What White People Don't Understand About Rachel Jeantel By Rachel Samara | Global Grind

 

[JakeStarkey]

I'm concerned about the almost all-white upper-middle class jury for this reason...

What White People Don't Understand About Rachel Jeantel By Rachel Samara | Global Grind

She will have little effect in the end on the jury's appreciation of the problem, which is whether GZ was justified in using deadly force if he did indeed provoke the brawl.

 

[Ernie S.]

Hypothetical silliness? Lmao. Next.

Anyone else?...RD has no solutions either. Pack a gun and follow in the dark and rain...lesson learned? Nope.

Follow my kid in the dark and rain...dont identify yourself and see what happens. Officer: Why did you hit him over the head with a crow bar?...well he was stalking my kid in the dark....I didnt know who he was...thought he was some creep.

Is there a problem?...oh no theres no problem here mr big bad teenager...damn right you got a problem now...wheres my phone...help me...someone help me!!! Gimme a break...he was scared to death of a 17 year old.

AND you would be in jail for assault. You can't assault a person for following. If you did that, the entire population of Manhattan would have black eyes, broken noses and cuts on the back of their heads.

This is true...a slight exaggeration on my part.

Of course, as I approach...and the guy acts dumbfounded and reaches for what I think is a weapon and it later turns out he had a gun there...I may have a case.

You have no justification if you THINK he is armed. Carrying a concealed weapon with a permit is not illegal.
Now if you confronted a man who was following your 17 year old son and told him you were going to beat him, he would be at least morally justified in indicating he was armed.

You see, we come at this from different perspectives. We both believe that any loss of life is tragic, but you believe that someone has to pay. You don't respect Mr. Zimmerman's right to defend himself from a physical assault, but do support Martin's right to defend himself from being followed.

Seems horribly biased to me.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Has State Opened Door to Defense Introducing Martin Fight Video?


Under direct testimony John Good testified that the black man wearing the black hoodie was straddling the man in the white or red sweatshirt “MMA-style” and rained down blows in a “Ground-and-Pound” style of attack.

t seems possible that this line of questioning may have openend the door to the defense being able to introduce video and other evidence of Martin’s own activities and expertise in street-fighting, evidence which to date has not been admitted into evidence.

BDLR: I want to go back to what you described as a straddling position, is that because of the posture of the person on top versus the person on the bottom. At some point you also used descriptive words as MMA-style, do you remember saying that.

Good: Yes

BDLR: Did you mean by that, what, sir?

Good: As a straddle position like that, it’s a common position you would see in a–

BDLR: MMA is mixed-martial arts? Is that correct?

Good: Correct.

BDLR: You watch that on TV?

Good: Not recently.

BDLR: When you say that you’re referring to the position of the person had top over the position of the bottom

Good: And the actions of the arms, looked like something I’d seen on TV before, so it was the first thing that came to my mind.

Recall that John Good had elsewhere in his testimony stated that “the guy in the top in the black hoodie pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.” See link below for details:

Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm concerned about the almost all-white upper-middle class jury for this reason...

What White People Don't Understand About Rachel Jeantel By Rachel Samara | Global Grind

Perhaps because Trayvon was black? If you had black people on that jury, you may run the risk of them holding an inherent bias towards Martin. It's common sense, not racism. One of the alternates is Hispanic! Racist my ass.

 

[TemplarKormac]

We created this thread for members to post updates from the trial, and to discuss to the trial itself. This thread is in Zone 2, please remember Zone 2 rules when posting in this thread.

We are hoping this will help with reported posts, deleted posts, and closing of threads. Enjoy!

Luissa, could you combine this thread with this one?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/295416-zimmerman-trial.html
This is the 'unofficial' trial watcher and update thread.
[MENTION=11865]Luissa[/MENTION]

Or never mind!?! I see this one is in politics, the other in Law and Justice.

Whiplash will ensue shortly

As long as they keep this thread a sticky. This trial will go on for about another month or so.

 

[25Caliber]

Where the hell is Tink?

I think Arias exhausted her...lol. She said she doesnt like wondering outside of that thread very often.

 

[MeBelle]

I'm concerned about the almost all-white upper-middle class jury for this reason...

What White People Don't Understand About Rachel Jeantel By Rachel Samara | Global Grind

Both Defense and Prosecution were involved in choosing the jury.

Hopefully, you are not accusing the Prosecution of being racist.

The tactic used by the defense was to discredit her testimony. The tactic used had to do with her prior inconsistent taped interview and her deposition among other things.

http://newsone.com/2615522/rachel-jeantel-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman/

http://newsone.com/2616872/rachel-jeantel-trayvon-martin-george/

 

[Amelia]

I'm concerned about the almost all-white upper-middle class jury for this reason...

What White People Don't Understand About Rachel Jeantel By Rachel Samara | Global Grind

Interesting perspective.



p.s., article's assumption that Trayvon was murdered is noted.