The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Missourian]

Okay, the no one is going to like this post.

This is the way I think it went down, I'm omitting some things as I think they will play out in trial according to the appeal on Crump, the depo, some other things that will come into play.

Based on the testimony so far and how I can envision this. This kid was in some trouble in Miami -see cell, suspensions, etc. and his mom sent him up here to his dad's to "get straightened out", his dad was otherwise occupied with gf and didn't stand on him as he should have been. As far as that night goes...

He was on the phone to Miami (we'll see about this later in trial), according to DD he was this niggah following me, this crackah, his young dumb full of cum balls were hanging out on that call - DD first day - not DD drugged up and told to shut up 2nd day. There is unaccounted explanations to trip to 7-11 in rain/time/the phone call/step brother/all star game - all that scenario is in question as far as I'm concerned, no testimony and many questions there.

Anyhow, he's on the Bluetooth with Miami, sees Z, talking about the niggah, crackah, he's got his badass game on, by her testimony. I think he was playing billy bad ass and Z did get out of the vehicle to see what was going on, he was prompted by the dispatcher -where is he? which was is he headed? etc. to assist. That is what it is, there were many questions there by dispatch and he was "assisting". He may have been going back to his vehicle(keys out, dispatcher instructions - "ok") or even not, either way, it was pitch black out, he can't see anything but his ring of flashlight walking around in the dark and the rain. If you have the flashlight you cant see but 5 feet in your ring, to find someone? I have 5 acres, unless I have the spotlight in my hand, I can't figure out shit on those nights, but if someone else is around they can see YOU! Many people have said he may have been "reaching for his gun not cell" in the interview, maybe true. If someone steps into your ring of vision/flashlight, that is what you would do SURPRISE! here I am, I need my gun/cell whatever. It leads me to believe that that's what happened TM was on the phone playing mano a mano impressing his Miami friend(s) and stepped into that light, what you following me for crackah? you got a problem - use your imagination here. That confrontation falls right into what DD said he was saying on the phone. So I do believe that TM was trying to impress on the Bluetooth and I do believe Z couldn't have found him in the dark, but the other way around with the light. Then after testimony yesterday, It think there was a what are you doing? what's it to ya niggah, watch this! on the phone thing that happened. He got Z down with the punch, there was scooting up to the concrete while Z was trying to get out from underneath, there was pounding, however, TM didn't know or did, from the beginning of him getting into that field of flash light vision SURPRISE! that Z had a gun. Either way, any way, doesn't matter, I think that's how it went down. If Z hadn't had a gun, this would be a different case entirely and not one in the public eye.

Now, there are some other things at work here other than the incident and the night itself and the defense has the goods on that, but that's for later on and that goes to the political / racial mess this trial is. Don't forget that as soon as the dad made the call to Crump, Crump called Al, got DD's story together with the dad and call the Justice Dept to start making some noise, and noise it made. The entire racial divide was pinned on this single incident and everyone with an agenda showed up for the party. That, already was unfounded, although for many that is still the issue even though it was unfounded, the investigation was closed, etc. many are still hanging their agenda hats on this incident. I think that is going to be a gigantic ass biter.

As for the incident itself and what happened there - I think it just about like what I said it was.

We're still pretty early into it, and still we have from the prosecution's witnesses, pretty compelling testimony about who was on top, who was yelling. And DD was enlightening.

What'd I say????

LOL

I think that's very possible.

I believe there were major misunderstandings on both sides and testosterone overload all around as well.

But in the end, we're armchair quarterbacking with 20/20 hindsight.

Knowing what I know about Zimmerman, and what I know about Martin, I am disposed to believe Zimmerman's account...but I also understand that Zimmerman could have panicked and then created a story that would exonerate him.

How to tell? I don't know.

The evidence so far supports Zimmerman's version.

Unless the Prosecution can prove otherwise, Zimmerman is innocent.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Oh no! When the trial ends I'm never going to see you again. Bring your bow and meet me in Park Rapids.

there will be another one

but how about the lake of the woods

i am actually interested in what led martin

down the road to the lean lifestyle

so far it is a tragic story

 

[Geaux4it]

I will indeed turn on the TV when they start to burn that Florida town to the ground.

You think they will pull a 'Gates' and not let the police go in and do their jobs?

Probably not

-Geaux

 

[jon_berzerk]

Okay, the no one is going to like this post.

This is the way I think it went down, I'm omitting some things as I think they will play out in trial according to the appeal on Crump, the depo, some other things that will come into play.

Based on the testimony so far and how I can envision this. This kid was in some trouble in Miami -see cell, suspensions, etc. and his mom sent him up here to his dad's to "get straightened out", his dad was otherwise occupied with gf and didn't stand on him as he should have been. As far as that night goes...

He was on the phone to Miami (we'll see about this later in trial), according to DD he was this niggah following me, this crackah, his young dumb full of cum balls were hanging out on that call - DD first day - not DD drugged up and told to shut up 2nd day. There is unaccounted explanations to trip to 7-11 in rain/time/the phone call/step brother/all star game - all that scenario is in question as far as I'm concerned, no testimony and many questions there.

Anyhow, he's on the Bluetooth with Miami, sees Z, talking about the niggah, crackah, he's got his badass game on, by her testimony. I think he was playing billy bad ass and Z did get out of the vehicle to see what was going on, he was prompted by the dispatcher -where is he? which was is he headed? etc. to assist. That is what it is, there were many questions there by dispatch and he was "assisting". He may have been going back to his vehicle(keys out, dispatcher instructions - "ok") or even not, either way, it was pitch black out, he can't see anything but his ring of flashlight walking around in the dark and the rain. If you have the flashlight you cant see but 5 feet in your ring, to find someone? I have 5 acres, unless I have the spotlight in my hand, I can't figure out shit on those nights, but if someone else is around they can see YOU! Many people have said he may have been "reaching for his gun not cell" in the interview, maybe true. If someone steps into your ring of vision/flashlight, that is what you would do SURPRISE! here I am, I need my gun/cell whatever. It leads me to believe that that's what happened TM was on the phone playing mano a mano impressing his Miami friend(s) and stepped into that light, what you following me for crackah? you got a problem - use your imagination here. That confrontation falls right into what DD said he was saying on the phone. So I do believe that TM was trying to impress on the Bluetooth and I do believe Z couldn't have found him in the dark, but the other way around with the light. Then after testimony yesterday, It think there was a what are you doing? what's it to ya niggah, watch this! on the phone thing that happened. He got Z down with the punch, there was scooting up to the concrete while Z was trying to get out from underneath, there was pounding, however, TM didn't know or did, from the beginning of him getting into that field of flash light vision SURPRISE! that Z had a gun. Either way, any way, doesn't matter, I think that's how it went down. If Z hadn't had a gun, this would be a different case entirely and not one in the public eye.

Now, there are some other things at work here other than the incident and the night itself and the defense has the goods on that, but that's for later on and that goes to the political / racial mess this trial is. Don't forget that as soon as the dad made the call to Crump, Crump called Al, got DD's story together with the dad and call the Justice Dept to start making some noise, and noise it made. The entire racial divide was pinned on this single incident and everyone with an agenda showed up for the party. That, already was unfounded, although for many that is still the issue even though it was unfounded, the investigation was closed, etc. many are still hanging their agenda hats on this incident. I think that is going to be a gigantic ass biter.

As for the incident itself and what happened there - I think it just about like what I said it was.

We're still pretty early into it, and still we have from the prosecution's witnesses, pretty compelling testimony about who was on top, who was yelling. And DD was enlightening.

What'd I say????

LOL

I think that's very possible.

I believe there were major misunderstandings on both sides and testosterone overload on all around as well.

But in the end, we're armchair quarterbacking with 20/20 hindsight.

Knowing what I know about Zimmerman, and what I know about Martin, I am disposed to believe Zimmerman's account...but I also understand that Zimmerman could have panicked and then created a story that would exonerate him.

How to tell? I don't know.

The evidence so far supports Zimmerman's version.

Unless the Prosecution can prove otherwise, Zimmerman is innocent.

it does

 

[RKMBrown]

The alternative is to allow an unarmed person to kill me.

Those are your choices.

No, those are your two choices.

I can think of a thousand things to do in the alternative. Killing the unarmed teen, for me, would have been way down the list. You've been watching too many movies.

Don't tell me... You'd try diplomacy.

Diplomacy would be in the list above shooting the unarmed teen in the chest, yes.

 

[RKMBrown]

Whoot third neg from "Sunshine." This is fun. cmon Sunshine give it to me.. Do you "three" love birds deny that girls can fight better than Zimmerman?

How many have you gotten from me? Am I behind?

Just two so far. Yes you are behind.

 

[Missourian]

I think you captured the attitude of Martin pretty well. He did seem to be posturing for Dee Dee on the phone and working himself up for a confrontation.
That, combined with the calm, rational conversation at about the same time between Zimmerman and the dispatcher shows both men's state of mind. One calm, business like, for the most part, and one posturing, almost demanding respect for being a bad assed gangsta.

Theres more than that, but the defense hasn't even started yet. So next week we'll have a better conversation .

I've got a doozy of an alternate theory, myself.

I think it is the P.A.'s alternate theory as well.

I picked up on it from some of the questions the Prosecutor was asking.

 

[RKMBrown]

I don't care if George Zimmerman danced a jig behind Martin while singing the "Oompaloompa Song". It still doesn't make it acceptable for Martin to assault him, or revoke Zimmerman's right to defend himself when Martin DID assault him. Last time I checked, the law doesn't require anyone to "avoid a confrontation", nor is it illegal to be annoying.

So, get a punch in the nose, and you can kill in florida? But only certain demographics of course.

Nice.

Get a punch in the nose? No You can't shoot. Get knocked down, jumped on and take repeated blows in "MMA style" and the asshole on top is fair game no matter what his complexion is.

You know you can kill someone with a punch to the nose, right? GZ should have just shot him right away lest the teen get a chance to do anything. What does it matter about the sidewalk? The kid was there, he's a thug right? Why give him the chance at all? GZ was scared of the dark, so he was justified right? I had a good friend die falling out of a bus, his head hit the concrete and he was gone just like that. We can't run the risk of thug teens tackling anyone. What we need is you guys to go around and put the mark of cane on all the thugs so we know which ones to shoot in case any of them come at us.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I think you captured the attitude of Martin pretty well. He did seem to be posturing for Dee Dee on the phone and working himself up for a confrontation.
That, combined with the calm, rational conversation at about the same time between Zimmerman and the dispatcher shows both men's state of mind. One calm, business like, for the most part, and one posturing, almost demanding respect for being a bad assed gangsta.

Theres more than that, but the defense hasn't even started yet. So next week we'll have a better conversation .

I've got a doozy of an alternate theory, myself.

I think it is the P.A.'s alternate theory as well.

I picked up on it from some of the questions the Prosecutor was asking.

share if so choose

 

[Missourian]

Theres more than that, but the defense hasn't even started yet. So next week we'll have a better conversation .

I've got a doozy of an alternate theory, myself.

I think it is the P.A.'s alternate theory as well.

I picked up on it from some of the questions the Prosecutor was asking.

share if so choose

PM sent.

 

[RKMBrown]

Okay, the no one is going to like this post.

This is the way I think it went down, I'm omitting some things as I think they will play out in trial according to the appeal on Crump, the depo, some other things that will come into play.

Based on the testimony so far and how I can envision this. This kid was in some trouble in Miami -see cell, suspensions, etc. and his mom sent him up here to his dad's to "get straightened out", his dad was otherwise occupied with gf and didn't stand on him as he should have been. As far as that night goes...

He was on the phone to Miami (we'll see about this later in trial), according to DD he was this niggah following me, this crackah, his young dumb full of cum balls were hanging out on that call - DD first day - not DD drugged up and told to shut up 2nd day. There is unaccounted explanations to trip to 7-11 in rain/time/the phone call/step brother/all star game - all that scenario is in question as far as I'm concerned, no testimony and many questions there.

Anyhow, he's on the Bluetooth with Miami, sees Z, talking about the niggah, crackah, he's got his badass game on, by her testimony. I think he was playing billy bad ass and Z did get out of the vehicle to see what was going on, he was prompted by the dispatcher -where is he? which was is he headed? etc. to assist. That is what it is, there were many questions there by dispatch and he was "assisting". He may have been going back to his vehicle(keys out, dispatcher instructions - "ok") or even not, either way, it was pitch black out, he can't see anything but his ring of flashlight walking around in the dark and the rain. If you have the flashlight you cant see but 5 feet in your ring, to find someone? I have 5 acres, unless I have the spotlight in my hand, I can't figure out shit on those nights, but if someone else is around they can see YOU! Many people have said he may have been "reaching for his gun not cell" in the interview, maybe true. If someone steps into your ring of vision/flashlight, that is what you would do SURPRISE! here I am, I need my gun/cell whatever. It leads me to believe that that's what happened TM was on the phone playing mano a mano impressing his Miami friend(s) and stepped into that light, what you following me for crackah? you got a problem - use your imagination here. That confrontation falls right into what DD said he was saying on the phone. So I do believe that TM was trying to impress on the Bluetooth and I do believe Z couldn't have found him in the dark, but the other way around with the light. Then after testimony yesterday, It think there was a what are you doing? what's it to ya niggah, watch this! on the phone thing that happened. He got Z down with the punch, there was scooting up to the concrete while Z was trying to get out from underneath, there was pounding, however, TM didn't know or did, from the beginning of him getting into that field of flash light vision SURPRISE! that Z had a gun. Either way, any way, doesn't matter, I think that's how it went down. If Z hadn't had a gun, this would be a different case entirely and not one in the public eye.

Now, there are some other things at work here other than the incident and the night itself and the defense has the goods on that, but that's for later on and that goes to the political / racial mess this trial is. Don't forget that as soon as the dad made the call to Crump, Crump called Al, got DD's story together with the dad and call the Justice Dept to start making some noise, and noise it made. The entire racial divide was pinned on this single incident and everyone with an agenda showed up for the party. That, already was unfounded, although for many that is still the issue even though it was unfounded, the investigation was closed, etc. many are still hanging their agenda hats on this incident. I think that is going to be a gigantic ass biter.

As for the incident itself and what happened there - I think it just about like what I said it was.

We're still pretty early into it, and still we have from the prosecution's witnesses, pretty compelling testimony about who was on top, who was yelling. And DD was enlightening.

What'd I say????

LOL

I think that's very possible.

I believe there were major misunderstandings on both sides and testosterone overload all around as well.

But in the end, we're armchair quarterbacking with 20/20 hindsight.

Knowing what I know about Zimmerman, and what I know about Martin, I am disposed to believe Zimmerman's account...but I also understand that Zimmerman could have panicked and then created a story that would exonerate him.

How to tell? I don't know.

The evidence so far supports Zimmerman's version.

Unless the Prosecution can prove otherwise, Zimmerman is innocent.

Innocent of second degree murder yeah probably... but may be guilty of involuntary manslaughter... will keep watching.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Okay, the no one is going to like this post.

This is the way I think it went down, I'm omitting some things as I think they will play out in trial according to the appeal on Crump, the depo, some other things that will come into play.

Based on the testimony so far and how I can envision this. This kid was in some trouble in Miami -see cell, suspensions, etc. and his mom sent him up here to his dad's to "get straightened out", his dad was otherwise occupied with gf and didn't stand on him as he should have been. As far as that night goes...

He was on the phone to Miami (we'll see about this later in trial), according to DD he was this niggah following me, this crackah, his young dumb full of cum balls were hanging out on that call - DD first day - not DD drugged up and told to shut up 2nd day. There is unaccounted explanations to trip to 7-11 in rain/time/the phone call/step brother/all star game - all that scenario is in question as far as I'm concerned, no testimony and many questions there.

Anyhow, he's on the Bluetooth with Miami, sees Z, talking about the niggah, crackah, he's got his badass game on, by her testimony. I think he was playing billy bad ass and Z did get out of the vehicle to see what was going on, he was prompted by the dispatcher -where is he? which was is he headed? etc. to assist. That is what it is, there were many questions there by dispatch and he was "assisting". He may have been going back to his vehicle(keys out, dispatcher instructions - "ok") or even not, either way, it was pitch black out, he can't see anything but his ring of flashlight walking around in the dark and the rain. If you have the flashlight you cant see but 5 feet in your ring, to find someone? I have 5 acres, unless I have the spotlight in my hand, I can't figure out shit on those nights, but if someone else is around they can see YOU! Many people have said he may have been "reaching for his gun not cell" in the interview, maybe true. If someone steps into your ring of vision/flashlight, that is what you would do SURPRISE! here I am, I need my gun/cell whatever. It leads me to believe that that's what happened TM was on the phone playing mano a mano impressing his Miami friend(s) and stepped into that light, what you following me for crackah? you got a problem - use your imagination here. That confrontation falls right into what DD said he was saying on the phone. So I do believe that TM was trying to impress on the Bluetooth and I do believe Z couldn't have found him in the dark, but the other way around with the light. Then after testimony yesterday, It think there was a what are you doing? what's it to ya niggah, watch this! on the phone thing that happened. He got Z down with the punch, there was scooting up to the concrete while Z was trying to get out from underneath, there was pounding, however, TM didn't know or did, from the beginning of him getting into that field of flash light vision SURPRISE! that Z had a gun. Either way, any way, doesn't matter, I think that's how it went down. If Z hadn't had a gun, this would be a different case entirely and not one in the public eye.

Now, there are some other things at work here other than the incident and the night itself and the defense has the goods on that, but that's for later on and that goes to the political / racial mess this trial is. Don't forget that as soon as the dad made the call to Crump, Crump called Al, got DD's story together with the dad and call the Justice Dept to start making some noise, and noise it made. The entire racial divide was pinned on this single incident and everyone with an agenda showed up for the party. That, already was unfounded, although for many that is still the issue even though it was unfounded, the investigation was closed, etc. many are still hanging their agenda hats on this incident. I think that is going to be a gigantic ass biter.

As for the incident itself and what happened there - I think it just about like what I said it was.

We're still pretty early into it, and still we have from the prosecution's witnesses, pretty compelling testimony about who was on top, who was yelling. And DD was enlightening.

What'd I say????

LOL

I think that's very possible.

I believe there were major misunderstandings on both sides and testosterone overload all around as well.

But in the end, we're armchair quarterbacking with 20/20 hindsight.

Knowing what I know about Zimmerman, and what I know about Martin, I am disposed to believe Zimmerman's account...but I also understand that Zimmerman could have panicked and then created a story that would exonerate him.

How to tell? I don't know.

The evidence so far supports Zimmerman's version.

Unless the Prosecution can prove otherwise, Zimmerman is innocent.

Innocent of second degree murder yeah probably... but may be guilty of involuntary manslaughter... will keep watching.

it dont work that way with self defense

if you are not guilty of 2nd murder

the self defense would also apply to manslaughter

 

[jon_berzerk]

I think I can see now the prosecutions alternate theory...

Martin confronts Zimmerman.

Zimmerman panics and goes for his gun.

Martin sees gun, lunges for it, knocks Zimmerman to the ground.

Martin can be on top AND screaming for help, holding Zimmerman's arms down to keep the gun barrel pointed away from him.

Zimmerman struggles, breaks his own nose with a headbutt or something, hits his own head on the ground in the struggle, gets the gun in position, fires the killing shot.

______________________________________________


But without proof, it's just a theory.

And they have no witnesses to corroborate.

A theory with no proof is called speculation.

i think there is too much pointing away from that

the one thing at this point in physical evidence

is the debris field

it starts where zimmerman says he was

and ends where martins body laid

 

[Missourian]

I think that's very possible.

I believe there were major misunderstandings on both sides and testosterone overload all around as well.

But in the end, we're armchair quarterbacking with 20/20 hindsight.

Knowing what I know about Zimmerman, and what I know about Martin, I am disposed to believe Zimmerman's account...but I also understand that Zimmerman could have panicked and then created a story that would exonerate him.

How to tell? I don't know.

The evidence so far supports Zimmerman's version.

Unless the Prosecution can prove otherwise, Zimmerman is innocent.

Innocent of second degree murder yeah probably... but may be guilty of involuntary manslaughter... will keep watching.

it dont work that way with self defense

if you are not guilty of 2nd murder

the self defense would also apply to manslaughter

So it's murder 2 or nothing?

 

[MeBelle]

That's bull. GZ would not have followed a White teen like that.

At least he never made a police call on one but dozens on black teenagers.

Actually only 7 out of 46.

46 Calls - The Daily Beast

A few on white people too.

The links in the article are dead must have been removes by SPD.

I did find this:

George Zimmerman's Police Call History

Code and signal meanings:
http://home.roadrunner.com/~scanner/scsocode.htm

 

[25Caliber]

The moral of this story/trial is to never get in a fight unless you are truly defending yourself.

Crime is out of control in this country and new laws have been established to protect citizens minding their own business who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do think that Zimmerman could have done other things to prevent the situation from occurring in the first place. However, that doesnt negate the fact that in the end he was not chasing Tray looking for a fight and Tray could have avoided the confrontation by simply going home.

Im a little old school and it clouds my judgment at times...I believe in the old fashioned toe to toe...no knives and no guns...no weapons. But this pertains to two parties looking to settle a difference worth fighting for, etc.

My big problem with Martin at this point in the trial is the fact that he circled back and around GZs truck...to me, with that he loses the benefit of the doubt of being frightened and scared...this suggests he was sizing up the opposition. I think that changes things a bit in regards to who was the aggressor.

I also have been thinking about another post last night, cant remember who (sorry), that essentially said that if the one on the bottom is in retreat or has had enough....then knock it off before you kill someone. You got the better of him, he wont follow anyone in the dark anymore, now leave him alone.

At some point, Tray became the aggressor, at some point Tray knew he had the better of him. At some point Tray should have been able to stop. Young kid, didnt really care about the consequences of his actions...in the end he was shot because he couldnt stop himself.

In MMA there is a ref that will call the fight when the one on the bottom is defenseless and in extreme danger. If there was no ref, you would see guys killed in the ring. There was no ref there that night to stop a person getting a dozen punches to the head.

My question is this...at what point do some in here think tray would have stopped? Based on the testimony presented and had GZ not had a gun...when do you think Tray would have stopped punching?...when GZ was knocked out? He was raining down blows to a person being dominated by a full mount position and crying for help...this wasnt enough for Tray. Remember this is the same kid that said that people werent "bleeding enough" in his fights.

In other words, GZ was tapping out. Tray didnt seem to care. Another old school thing, is when someone is tapping out or says they have had enough...you stop...you won...you da man!

 

[RKMBrown]

I think that's very possible.

I believe there were major misunderstandings on both sides and testosterone overload all around as well.

But in the end, we're armchair quarterbacking with 20/20 hindsight.

Knowing what I know about Zimmerman, and what I know about Martin, I am disposed to believe Zimmerman's account...but I also understand that Zimmerman could have panicked and then created a story that would exonerate him.

How to tell? I don't know.

The evidence so far supports Zimmerman's version.

Unless the Prosecution can prove otherwise, Zimmerman is innocent.

Innocent of second degree murder yeah probably... but may be guilty of involuntary manslaughter... will keep watching.

it dont work that way with self defense

if you are not guilty of 2nd murder

the self defense would also apply to manslaughter

That's not what I read.

 

[Zona]

Remember, if you have ccw and some kid punches you in the nose,you can kill him. Make sure he is black so you can call him a thug because you see, he got suspended or something.

It doesn't matter if you had troubles with the police or if you have a restraining order and obviously have anger issues......you CAN kill him. It's fine. It's florida.

 

[Missourian]

The moral of this story/trial is to never get in a fight unless you are truly defending yourself.

Crime is out of control in this country and new laws have been established to protect citizens minding their own business who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do think that Zimmerman could have done other things to prevent the situation from occurring in the first place. However, that doesnt negate the fact that in the end he was not chasing Tray looking for a fight and Tray could have avoided the confrontation by simply going home.

Im a little old school and it clouds my judgment at times...I believe in the old fashioned toe to toe...no knives and no guns...no weapons. But this pertains to two parties looking to settle a difference worth fighting for, etc.

My big problem with Martin at this point in the trial is the fact that he circled back and around GZs truck...to me, with that he loses the benefit of the doubt of being frightened and scared...this suggests he was sizing up the opposition. I think that changes things a bit in regards to who was the aggressor.

I also have been thinking about another post last night, cant remember who (sorry), that essentially said that if the one on the bottom is in retreat or has had enough....then knock it off before you kill someone. You got the better of him, he wont follow anyone in the dark anymore, now leave him alone.

At some point, Tray became the aggressor, at some point Tray knew he had the better of him. At some point Tray should have been able to stop. Young kid, didnt really care about the consequences of his actions...in the end he was shot because he couldnt stop himself.

In MMA there is a ref that will call the fight when the one on the bottom is defenseless and in extreme danger. If there was no ref, you would see guys killed in the ring. There was no ref there that night to stop a person getting a dozen punches to the head.

My question is this...at what point do some in here think tray would have stopped? Based on the testimony presented and had GZ not had a gun...when do you think Tray would have stopped punching?...when GZ was knocked out? He was raining down blows to a person being dominated by a full mount position and crying for help...this wasnt enough for Tray. Remember this is the same kid that said that people werent "bleeding enough" in his fights.

In other words, GZ was tapping out. Tray didnt seem to care. Another old school thing, is when someone is tapping out or says they have had enough...you stop...you won...you da man!

Impossible to say.

And personally, I wouldn't trust someone who was beating me into unconsciousness to be good enough to stop before they killed me.

And that's the bottom line.

 

[Ernie S.]

No, those are your two choices.

I can think of a thousand things to do in the alternative. Killing the unarmed teen, for me, would have been way down the list. You've been watching too many movies.

Don't tell me... You'd try diplomacy.

Diplomacy would be in the list above shooting the unarmed teen in the chest, yes.

So you're on your back getting the shit kicked out of you and you want to negotiate with someone who is intent on killing you? What do you have to bargain with at that point. Don't you dare tell me you would tell your assailant that you are armed, thereby giving away your last chance. That is suicidal.
All you can do at that point is surrender and hope the beating stops, or act. Zimmerman wisely chose to act. I would chose to act as well. Am I to take it that you would rather die than take a life? You're sicker than I thought.