The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Ernie S.]

Clearly if Trayvon was the thug he's being made to be, Zimmerman would be dead today.

Except that Zimmerman had the equipment and the skill to survive the attack.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Pretty sure she's sorta botched this..

Spoken like a true legal wiz. Perhaps you can inform the Governor of your credentials as internet legal wizard par excellance and he will appoint you to replace Cory?

Murder 2 is probably overcharging..and I think it's deliberate.

Err ---Sallow if it was deliberate that would mean she undercharged Zimmerman and should have gone for murder one.

In any case..if Florida gets this wrong..the Feds will probably get it right.

Highly unlikely. DoJ assessment:

With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids – the highest level of intent in criminal law. Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws.

But then again what does the Department of Justice know compared to your legal expertise? You should be in line to replace Holder... you can send your resume to

The White House
Attn: President Barack Obama
1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington, DC 20500

 

[Sunshine]

I know...I know...you are 65 years old and know and experienced everything...this case isnt rocket science and you dont need a law degree to know what applies here. You are not a lawyer in this case and you are not a juror...you are just another posting braggart without an objective bone in your body as I see it.

Your 65 years of experience has appeared to have developed a bias and a whole lot of bitterness. Just my take...If my grandmother talked like you I'd wash HER mouth out with soap....lol. Your language is vulgar, your bias is thick, your compassion is slim and your ego is bigger than the blimp.

I really dont have much interest in your opinion...and I dont believe I asked for it either. You seem to be seeking me out...try to resist.

And you are being a disrespectful little smartass.

You're damn right...and you worked real hard for it

I must concede that law school IS a lot of work. But, I can also affirm that it is worth every minute and every dime spent on it.

 

[25Caliber]

And you are being a disrespectful little smartass.

You're damn right...and you worked real hard for it

I must concede that law school IS a lot of work. But, I can also affirm that it is worth every minute and every dime spent on it.

Is that why you became a nurse instead? The only thing you have shown me is that you can google wikipedia and CLAIM to have a law degree and experience in Psychology and working with urban yutes...im not impressed or naive.

 

[Sunshine]

[MENTION=42969]jon_berzerk[/MENTION] -can I share that school thing?

maybe wait a few days

i still believe that the state is unaware of it

what school thang? pm me.

Probably this:

Records show George Zimmerman got D’s in criminal justice classes - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com


But I know more than one person who got to their last year of law school and calculated that if they made a D in every remaining subject they would still graduate. "D stands for Degree."

And then there was the question: What do you call a judge who graduated last in his class? Answer: "Your Honor."

 

[The Rabbi]

Irrelevant to you? And so does following someone in the dark, not identifying yourself and reaching for your gun...err...uhhh...phone that wasnt there...lol.

GZ was aggressively following and hence got aggressively punched by a minor...lol. Very relevant to self defense...he went looking and he found it.

"Aggressively following"? What crime is that? What part of that justifies getting punched?
You make stuff up and ignore the relevant details.

I would suggest following someone in your truck and on foot and reaching for your gun and not identifying yourself at minimum minimizes your case of self defense. That why cops dont like you following people. You are not trained to handle the situation, defuse the situation identifying yourself, etc.

Im not committing a crime by walking into a lions den either, but I might not get off with self defense If I enter it and shoot all the Lions charging me.

Make what up...you are making up that i am making up....lol. Im just trying to find out if you are someone objective enough to look at the case in its entirety. Im having my doubts.

You state merely your opinion. There is no such thing as "aggressively following". That is simply a value judgment on your part. It does not negate Zimmerman's claim to self defense.

I did have an open mind when the case first opened. I read the initial accounts of what happened. I saw that the assistent DA did not want to charge Zimmerman and the police released him immediately. All of that told me it was a legitimate case of self defense. Nothing I have seen since then negates that initial impression. In order for it to negate that initial impression I would need information that zimmerman was not reasonably in fear of death or severe bodily harm. That he was not on the ground getting the snot pounded out him by a fit and trim man. That Martin lacked the 3 crucial elements for determing self defense: ability, opportunity, and demonstrated intent. Did he have the ability to inflict death or severe bodily harm on Zimmerman? Yes. Did he have the opportunity to do so? Yes. Did he have the demonstrated intent? Yes. When you can show something that contradicts that I will believe that Zimmerman is a murderer.

 

[Katzndogz]

[MENTION=20450]MarcATL[/MENTION]

Did you respond to my answer to your question?
If, so, apologies in advance and I'll dig around some more.

If not, please do.
TIA

I'm concerned about the almost all-white upper-middle class jury for this reason...

What White People Don't Understand About Rachel Jeantel By Rachel Samara | Global Grind

Both Defense and Prosecution were involved in choosing the jury.

Hopefully, you are not accusing the Prosecution of being racist.

The tactic used by the defense was to discredit her testimony. The tactic used had to do with her prior inconsistent taped interview and her deposition among other things.

Rachel Jeantel Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman: Prosecution Witness Tweets About Drunk Driving | Breaking News for Black America

Rachel Jeantel George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin?s Friend Testifies | Breaking News for Black America

For those of us who have had the misfortune of being forced to put black people on the stand for the defense, Jeantel's behavior and demeanor is all too common. It is the reason, this behavior is the very reason why an innocent black man is more likely to go to jail than an innocent white man.

I have seen it a thousand times, unfortunately mostly to those who were truly, truly innocent.

 

[Missourian]

Why didn't GZ use the gun in the way you used your weapons has been the root of my questioning GZ's actions. I applaud your choice to let them live.

If my (former) wife's attacker had completed breaking down my door, I would have killed him. Had the man with the knife been closer to me when I indicated I was armed, HE would have died. In both cases, I had an alternative that didn't include killing someone. George Zimmerman had called out for help. He was even refused help from a man that opted to call 911 instead. He was getting pounded, punched in the face and with each punch, his head was driven into the ground. He was fresh out of options. He unholstered his weapon and fired as a last resort.

GZ could have ended it by not getting out of his car and giving chase. He decided to pursue while armed. He could probably have brandished the gun as you did to deter the suspect at any point in time.

Brandishing a firearm is a crime in my state.

At CCW class they were emphatic...NEVER unholster your weapon unless you intend to use it.

Never intend to use it unless you are in fear for your life or defending the others from the threat of death or grievous bodily harm.

Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
571.030.

1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner​

 

[testarosa]

Nor should there have been one.

And that's where the institutional racism comes in the play.

Had the situation been reversed?

Zimmerman black and Martin white?

Zimmerman would already have been convicted.

Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case - CNN.com

No one died in that case.

I doubt that.
I do know I would still be on Zimmerman's side in this discussion assuming it had national attention.

This woman you are referring to with the 20 year 'stand your ground' case was prosecuted by Angela Corey right after she was assigned as special prosecutor to this case.

IMO she is another casualty in the long list of casualties of this case - ie Bill Lee and Ron King.

Rep Corinne Brown vs Angela Corey on Marissa Alexander:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyITmlJHALM]05.11.12: Rep. Brown + Angela Corey Talk on Marissa Alexander - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

I would be very interested in how you would go about defending Trayvon...lets here the other side. Help! lol.

First and foremost, I would not use a knock-knock joke in opening argument. Other than that, the defense is doing a decent job.

To explain defense strategy is extremely difficult at this point because it is fluid. You must be able to make decisions on the fly regarding cross examination. It is only when the prosecution rests that you really employ strategy and that is based upon what the prosecution has actually presented. So you adjust your strategy based upon what the prosecution has accomplished. Which, up to this point is not that much IMHO. I would expect something much better when forensics evidence is proffered and the evidence of the autopsy is discussed. If the Prosecution has a chance to prevail it is because of something they will reveal there...

LOL...omg...no knock knock jokes for sure.

I guess what I am asking for is objectivity...how would you go about making the case that Trayvon could have been acting in self defense and that GZ could have been considered the aggressor at least in Trayvons eyes in that moment.

I think its easy to empathize with GZ...we have his words and all of his information now...but what about the guy who isnt here to give his side? One who didnt have all the information that night that we have today

You would have to show that Zimmerman had the three elements in place: ability, opportunity, and demonstrated intent. Following someone is not demonstrating intent. You would have to claim that Zimmerman was reaching for his gun when Trayvon initially confronted him. There is no evidence of that.

Additionally we know now that Trayvon had a burglary record, that he was caught at school with women's jewelry and a screwdriver. That there had been burglaries in his area.
While I dont know, I strongly suspect that Trayvon was in fact casing houses to break in and Zimmerman, who was sensitized to just that kind of behavior, caught him at it. That's why Trayvon confronted him instead of running away. When someone is following you, you get away. You dont confront them.

 

[Ernie S.]

Clearly if Trayvon was the thug he's being made to be, Zimmerman would be dead today.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS0sqUhfzx0&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbS0sqUhfzx0&has_verified=1]OLD MAN BEATS UP YOUNG BLACK BOY ON METRO BUS - YouTube[/ame]

Here's another sort of similar circumstance.

Had the young man shot the old man..I doubt one Zimmerman supporter on this board would be jumping to the young man's defense.

He got the shit kicked out of him because he approached the older whit dude. The white guy got up and moved away for God's sake. They traded some insults and the bad ass black kid goes up to confront him.
If he had stayed in his seat, he wouldn't have gotten his stupid ass beat down. He's lucky. I'm not bigger than he was and I'm older than the whit dude. I'd have considered putting him down.

 

[25Caliber]

"Aggressively following"? What crime is that? What part of that justifies getting punched?
You make stuff up and ignore the relevant details.

I would suggest following someone in your truck and on foot and reaching for your gun and not identifying yourself at minimum minimizes your case of self defense. That why cops dont like you following people. You are not trained to handle the situation, defuse the situation identifying yourself, etc.

Im not committing a crime by walking into a lions den either, but I might not get off with self defense If I enter it and shoot all the Lions charging me.

Make what up...you are making up that i am making up....lol. Im just trying to find out if you are someone objective enough to look at the case in its entirety. Im having my doubts.

You state merely your opinion. There is no such thing as "aggressively following". That is simply a value judgment on your part. It does not negate Zimmerman's claim to self defense.

I did have an open mind when the case first opened. I read the initial accounts of what happened. I saw that the assistent DA did not want to charge Zimmerman and the police released him immediately. All of that told me it was a legitimate case of self defense. Nothing I have seen since then negates that initial impression. In order for it to negate that initial impression I would need information that zimmerman was not reasonably in fear of death or severe bodily harm. That he was not on the ground getting the snot pounded out him by a fit and trim man. That Martin lacked the 3 crucial elements for determing self defense: ability, opportunity, and demonstrated intent. Did he have the ability to inflict death or severe bodily harm on Zimmerman? Yes. Did he have the opportunity to do so? Yes. Did he have the demonstrated intent? Yes. When you can show something that contradicts that I will believe that Zimmerman is a murderer.

But how do you get to that point if you cant even acknowledge the appearance GZ could have had on Trayvon?

Your looking at his self defense...Im looking at Trayvon was possibly looking down the barrel of a gun had he not punched GZ...I mean you dont really believe that GZ was really reaching for a phone that wasnt there, do you? Doesnt he have some responsibility in identifying himself before he pulls a trigger? Trayvon as far as we know died thinking that he was killed by some creep following him at night who was finally successful in grabbing that gun he kept reaching for.

 

[Sunshine]

You're damn right...and you worked real hard for it

I must concede that law school IS a lot of work. But, I can also affirm that it is worth every minute and every dime spent on it.

Is that why you became a nurse instead? The only thing you have shown me is that you can google wikipedia.

I did not become 'a nurse instead.' I was already a board certified NP when I enrolled in law school. I never intended to practice law. A person who only teaches law is not required to hold a license. I got the degree to be better in my field, and to be able to start my own business upon retirement. Fact is, my business has been started for some time now. And FYI a lot of nurses get doctorates, and a lot of us get JDs. We even get paid in our clinical practice for having it because it is a doctorate in a related field. We also have a professional organization known as The American Association of Nurse Attorneys.

As to the wiki and sites from which I post, well you can just suck that one up. I am under no obligation to pay for a service like WestLaw or Lexus/Nexus to post cases on a message board. But the thing you fail to recognize is that I know which cases to look for, obscure cases, obscure laws, etc. A person who does not have command of the law cannot hone in on those things because they don't have the knowledge of what to look for. So you can suck it up. And am still a board certified nurse practitioner, and I can legally teach the law if I so choose.

You are very young. You would do well to spend your time in pursuit of formal education. I can assure you your life will improve if you do.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

n e g g e d !!!

Had Martin just punched Zimmerman in the nose that would have been the end of it. It was the ground and pound that got him shot.

Bullshit! That murdering racist was going to shoot that kid no matter what. He fantasized about it along with his racist friends and family. Let him go free. Its up to Trayvon's family to get revenge. The justice system doesn't give a shit about Black kids. That's our own fault. Doesn't mean we cant seek our own vengeance.

 

[25Caliber]

I must concede that law school IS a lot of work. But, I can also affirm that it is worth every minute and every dime spent on it.

Is that why you became a nurse instead? The only thing you have shown me is that you can google wikipedia.

I did not become 'a nurse instead.' I was already a board certified NP when I enrolled in law school. I never intended to practice law. A person who only teaches law is not required to hold a license. I got the degree to be better in my field, and to be able to start my own business upon retirement. Fact is, my business has been started for some time now. And FYI a lot of nurses get doctorates, and a lot of us get JDs. We even get paid in our clinical practice for having it because it is a doctorate in a related field. We also have a professional organization known as The American Association of Nurse Attorneys.

As to the wiki and sites from which I post, well you can just suck that one up. I am under no obligation to pay for a service like WestLaw or Lexus/Nexus to post cases on a message board even though I can get free access to both of those through other services available to me through my schools, and through various court websites. But the thing you fail to recognize is that I know which cases to look for, obscure cases, obscure laws, etc. A person who does not have command of the law cannot hone in on those things because they don't have the knowledge of what to look for. So you can suck it up. And am still a board certified nurse practitioner, and I can legally teach the law if I so choose.

You are very young. You would do well to spend your time in pursuit of formal education. I can assure you your life will improve if you do.

Or maybe you just took a couple of criminal justice classes...none of us will ever know or care. You're just another online braggart to me who calls people they dont know faggot. You should have taken some maturity classes.

Im not as young as you think and have a degree. I just dont feel the need to boast of my degrees, certifications, sports trophies and employment as you do. Especially not to an internet message board. You have a need to post your resume every time you think your words or claims will give you some credibility or an edge in your argument.

 

[Sallow]

Clearly if Trayvon was the thug he's being made to be, Zimmerman would be dead today.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS0sqUhfzx0&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbS0sqUhfzx0&has_verified=1]OLD MAN BEATS UP YOUNG BLACK BOY ON METRO BUS - YouTube[/ame]

Here's another sort of similar circumstance.

Had the young man shot the old man..I doubt one Zimmerman supporter on this board would be jumping to the young man's defense.

He got the shit kicked out of him because he approached the older whit dude. The white guy got up and moved away for God's sake. They traded some insults and the bad ass black kid goes up to confront him.
If he had stayed in his seat, he wouldn't have gotten his stupid ass beat down. He's lucky. I'm not bigger than he was and I'm older than the whit dude. I'd have considered putting him down.

And that has nothing to do with the point I made.

Had the young man shot the old man, because he was losing the fight and felt that his life with in danger..none of you folks would have any trouble putting the young man in jail.

And that's telling.

 

[The Rabbi]

I would suggest following someone in your truck and on foot and reaching for your gun and not identifying yourself at minimum minimizes your case of self defense. That why cops dont like you following people. You are not trained to handle the situation, defuse the situation identifying yourself, etc.

Im not committing a crime by walking into a lions den either, but I might not get off with self defense If I enter it and shoot all the Lions charging me.

Make what up...you are making up that i am making up....lol. Im just trying to find out if you are someone objective enough to look at the case in its entirety. Im having my doubts.

You state merely your opinion. There is no such thing as "aggressively following". That is simply a value judgment on your part. It does not negate Zimmerman's claim to self defense.

I did have an open mind when the case first opened. I read the initial accounts of what happened. I saw that the assistent DA did not want to charge Zimmerman and the police released him immediately. All of that told me it was a legitimate case of self defense. Nothing I have seen since then negates that initial impression. In order for it to negate that initial impression I would need information that zimmerman was not reasonably in fear of death or severe bodily harm. That he was not on the ground getting the snot pounded out him by a fit and trim man. That Martin lacked the 3 crucial elements for determing self defense: ability, opportunity, and demonstrated intent. Did he have the ability to inflict death or severe bodily harm on Zimmerman? Yes. Did he have the opportunity to do so? Yes. Did he have the demonstrated intent? Yes. When you can show something that contradicts that I will believe that Zimmerman is a murderer.

But how do you get to that point if you cant even acknowledge the appearance GZ could have had on Trayvon?

Your looking at his self defense...Im looking at Trayvon was possibly looking down the barrel of a gun had he not punched GZ...I mean you dont really believe that GZ was really reaching for a phone that wasnt there, do you? Doesnt he have some responsibility in identifying himself before he pulls a trigger? Trayvon as far as we know died thinking that he was killed by some creep following him at night who was finally successful in grabbing that gun he kept reaching for.

Back up.
Zimmerman produced the gun and shot Trayvon only after Trayvon had him on the ground and was pummeling him. Zimmerman produced the gun only after Trayvon had seen it and told Zimmerman "you're going to die tonight." On your back getting pounded is not the time to identify yourself.
I am amazed you know what Trayvon was thinking before he died. If you had a son would he look like Trayvon?

 

[Missourian]

Clearly if Trayvon was the thug he's being made to be, Zimmerman would be dead today.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS0sqUhfzx0&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbS0sqUhfzx0&has_verified=1"]OLD MAN BEATS UP YOUNG BLACK BOY ON METRO BUS - YouTube[/ame]

Here's another sort of similar circumstance.

Had the young man shot the old man..I doubt one Zimmerman supporter on this board would be jumping to the young man's defense.

First, the black guy struck first.

Second, the white guy stopped hitting him once he was down.

Had he continued to wail on the black guy after he was down, and no one was stopping him...and the black guy believed he was in danger of death or grievous bodily harm, he would have been within his rights to use lethal force to stop the attack.

But it didn't come to that...white guy ended the threat to himself, and walked away.

Had Martin done that, he would be alive today.

 

[testarosa]

[MENTION=11800]Missourian[/MENTION] where's my "No Fair"!! pm?

 

[Sunshine]

If my (former) wife's attacker had completed breaking down my door, I would have killed him. Had the man with the knife been closer to me when I indicated I was armed, HE would have died. In both cases, I had an alternative that didn't include killing someone. George Zimmerman had called out for help. He was even refused help from a man that opted to call 911 instead. He was getting pounded, punched in the face and with each punch, his head was driven into the ground. He was fresh out of options. He unholstered his weapon and fired as a last resort.

GZ could have ended it by not getting out of his car and giving chase. He decided to pursue while armed. He could probably have brandished the gun as you did to deter the suspect at any point in time.

Brandishing a firearm is a crime in my state.

At CCW class they were emphatic...NEVER unholster your weapon unless you intend to use it.

Never intend to use it unless you are in fear for your life or defending the others from the threat of death or grievous bodily harm.

Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
571.030.

1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner​

Yes, there are strict gun laws and they even apply to people who have carry permits.

A common misconception is that it is OK to fire a 'warning shot' over someone's head to convince them of something. That is not the case. People have gone to prison because a bullet from a warning shot ended up in someone's body other than that of the person you are trying to scare.

Warning shots create a variety of legal and practical problems. It cannot be too strongly stated the bullet must land somewhere! If the situation is stressful enough to inspire a warning shot, careful aim will not be possible; certainly not while keeping an eye on the threat. When shot into the air at a 90-degree angle, the bullet should fall back to the earth at the speed of gravity. The terminal ballistics should be uncomfortable, but not deadly.2

However, a precise 90-degree angle is not possible under stress and the bullet is more likely to plow into some unfortunate target still propelled by its gunpowder charge. There is a report of a law enforcement officer who fired a warning shot into the air to get the attention of a fleeing robber. The bullet ricocheted off a building ledge and struck the felon in the top of his head. This got his attention as no one ever had before, but it appeared that the officer had illegally shot a fleeing felon, and the wound location looked like an execution. Fortunately, the robber survived and doubtless made spirited complaints about being shot, which coincided with the officer’s report of the circumstances.3

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/its-just-the-law/warning-shots/

I know of a civilian who fired a warning shot that killed someone he couldn't even see and he ended up in prison.