The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Missourian]

I see your point...but conversely...after Zimmerman had stopped following Martin and Martin was gone from the scene, IMO Zimmerman getting out of his truck becomes moot.

You make a great point...and I have been thinking about this. The very reason that Trayvon called out ot GZ suggests that GZ was in retreat or going back to his truck...so just let the guy go back to his truck and you go back to your house...I get it.

However, it turns out he actually did not stop following TM. According to GZ's own testimony he apparently "passed" TM who had gone right down the T. Then GZ backtracked to where TM was, which incidentally was also in the direction where he parked. Or GZ is lying...

Yes he passed the point where he saw Martin go, over to the next street, and then headed back to his truck.

Martin confronted him at the T as he headed back to the truck.

 

[Missourian]

Have you ever tried your hand at unsolved murders?

Speculation gets so out of control that you lose the thread of what is true and what is pure conjecture.

It's a nightmare of epic proportions.

Everyone has a theory...

And they defend it like some here do, using the age old techniques... illogical and irrational.

Stick to what you can prove, it will lead you to what is true and what isn't true much more surely than half baked theories with no supporting evidence.

There's a new reality show called "Whodunit?" Has anyone seen it? Not great, but it might appeal to a lot of us here on this thread.

Not a reality show like this trial is, but I kinda liked 'Motive.' You know from the start whodunit, but not why.....

I watched one episode of Motive...it didn't grab me.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

That's for murder; which implies intent to kill. Man slaughter is negligent actions that lead to someone else's death.

You are correct....but the problem is for now, the prosecution is not showing negligence...they could with the following and the reaching for the "phone"...but they arent doing that yet. They fell into the bait of the race card and it has clouded the judgment of thier case, imo.

GZ could be found for manslaughter, but not the way the prosecution is presenting its case...IMHO...its sad.

Is this more of your vaunted "open mindedness"?

It is a case of self defense. The elements are well known and I have laid them out over and over. Changing the charge from murder to manslaughter will not alter that one bit. The claim of self defense takes precedence over all of it. The prosecutor would ahve to defeat that claim. And they cannot.

Again, the stand your ground law protects Zimmerman from the murder charges if it is self defense. However, the FL manslaughter of a minor law does not protect him on the basis of "lawful justification" IE Stand your ground if GZ exercised 'culpable negligence' that led to Travis's death.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sarino just refuted Zimmerman's testimony. "Nothing" he said, "in the evidence I had on hand, contradicted Zimmerman's account of the fight and shooting" (Paraphrasing)

Did Sarino refute Zimmerman's testimony and affirm his testimony? You seem to be contradictory here.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I just don't believe it. That's all..

Oh is that it? Well believe it, sistah! The realities of this case are no doubt sinking in, for you. You can overcome your denial by taking more objective stances about this case, for one. For two, you can do your own research and stop swallowing everything a liberal pundit on television tells you about it. Some of us have been following this case for over a year and a half. You most likely. haven't cared about this case until it came to trial.

I rarely believe anything you say from your biased play by plays everyday to where you claim to be 25.

Bias? You are lecturing me on bias? You are ignoring evidence, making conclusions based on your own conclusions, you are highly prone to speculation. You keep rejecting the realities of the facts being presented by other members of this discussion, and you accuse me of being biased?

Don't you dare.

 

[MarcATL]

Zimmerman had already drawn a conclusion about the kid as of the first non emergency call.

He kept calling Travon the suspect for one thing. He said he was walking casually in the drizzle as if that somehow made Travon guilty. He stalked Travon, we only have his account of how Travon moved, looked, what he supposedly said, that he may have been looking in houses, etc.. He is sticking to his story but the profiling is apparent especially in this reading of the statement.

The cursive that the female cop had a hard time reading, get it?, of Zimmerman's account may very well be his undoing.

Done in by his own words.

Interesting turn of events.

 

[testarosa]

Oh boy...Omara just nailed Cerino...lord!

The going to class the next day was concerning and cavalier to Cerino?...uh, I dont think so...listen to his questioning of GZ...it was Cerino asking about his availability and what would be the best time to meet.

This doesnt look good at all for officer Cerino or the state...I mean come on guys.

What happened/happening?

On a conference call.

Summary?

 

[The Rabbi]

You are correct....but the problem is for now, the prosecution is not showing negligence...they could with the following and the reaching for the "phone"...but they arent doing that yet. They fell into the bait of the race card and it has clouded the judgment of thier case, imo.

GZ could be found for manslaughter, but not the way the prosecution is presenting its case...IMHO...its sad.

Is this more of your vaunted "open mindedness"?

It is a case of self defense. The elements are well known and I have laid them out over and over. Changing the charge from murder to manslaughter will not alter that one bit. The claim of self defense takes precedence over all of it. The prosecutor would ahve to defeat that claim. And they cannot.

Again, the stand your ground law protects Zimmerman from the murder charges if it is self defense. However, the FL manslaughter of a minor law does not protect him on the basis of "lawful justification" IE Stand your ground if GZ exercised 'culpable negligence' that led to Travis's death.

Oh shut the fuck up already. I've had a whole day of your ignorance and I'm sick of it.
Stand you ground has nothing to do with this.
Self defense is always an affirmative defense to a charge of murder.
He cannot be charged with manslaughter because on his own testimony he intentionally shot Trayvon.

 

[MarcATL]

BTW, it doesn't matter that Trayvon was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman...what matters is who was the aggressor.

It's crystal clear that Zimmerman saw Trayvon, stalked him and ended up confronting him and ultimately killing him.

How he walks away from this a free man would take a miracle from the good Lord above.

 

[Edgetho]

Zimmerman had already drawn a conclusion about the kid as of the first non emergency call.

He kept calling Travon the suspect for one thing. He said he was walking casually in the drizzle as if that somehow made Travon guilty. He stalked Travon, we only have his account of how Travon moved, looked, what he supposedly said, that he may have been looking in houses, etc.. He is sticking to his story but the profiling is apparent especially in this reading of the statement.

The cursive that the female cop had a hard time reading, get it?, of Zimmerman's account may very well be his undoing.

Done in by his own words.

Interesting turn of events.

If I ever have to go to Court, I hope you two are the opposing legal team.

 

[Sallow]

I see your point...but conversely...after Zimmerman had stopped following Martin and Martin was gone from the scene, IMO Zimmerman getting out of his truck becomes moot.

Well no.

And nothing Zimmerman did made any sense.

He gets out of his truck, because, what? He didn't know where he was?

He lives in a gated community with 3 streets. Additionally..he's patrolling it as part of the watch, frequently.

And what? He thinks Martin may be armed yet he walks through a dark pathway to get the street name? That make any sense whatsoever?

Then when he meets Martin..who may have jumped from some phantom Bushes..oh wait he changed that to..emerged from the darkness..

Martin is walking toward him and they exchange 2 sentences..then Martin hits him. Really?

Then Martin slams his head against the pavement and smothers his mouth. How the fuck is Zimmerman screaming? And why would Martin be screaming if he intended to kill him. What? He wanted an audience?

Nothing this guy makes any sense at all.

I think it's been established that Zimmerman got out of his truck initially to follow Martin.

The dispatcher says it's no necessary, so he stops.

The dispatcher asks him where he is park, he doesn't know the name of the street. Either this is the greatest pre-planning of all times, or he doesn't remember the name of the street.

Adrenaline will do that to ya...it's happened to me personally.

I witnessed an accident on the interstate frontage road very near my home exit.

I knew it was exit 159...always have, still knew it even though I haven't lived there for years...and the next exit was exit 163...where the Bobber Truckstop used to be on I-44 in Missouri...it's a pilot now.

I only go into detail because I know you used to drive a truck, so you'll understand.

For the ininitiated, every trucker knows their Home-20 exit number. Makes it easy to calculate time to home, Milemarker +/- home exits = miles to exit.

But this day my brain made the call for the information and the achives responded "sorry, we're closed, try back later."

Luckily, the homeowner came running out so I didn't have to leave the lady to search out an address like Zimmerman was forced too.

------------------

Have we seen attacks for less?

Yes we have.

Any perceived sleight could cause an attack.

So that logic doesn't fly.

I have some youtube videos as evidence, if you'd like to see them just let me know.

Well that's if you believe Zimmerman.

I don't.

It's looks like Zimmerman initiated the fight..and started losing.

Zimmerman killed an innocent kid.

And I don't see why all the law and order nuts..aren't angry about that.

 

[MeBelle]

What did your Spidey sense tell you?

 

[Edgetho]

BTW, it doesn't matter that Trayvon was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman...what matters is who was the aggressor.

It's crystal clear that Zimmerman saw Trayvon, stalked him and ended up confronting him and ultimately killing him.

How he walks away from this a free man would take a miracle from the good Lord above.

Please show me the criminal code where following and confronting are illegal

 

[Sallow]

Oh boy...Omara just nailed Cerino...lord!

The going to class the next day was concerning and cavalier to Cerino?...uh, I dont think so...listen to his questioning of GZ...it was Cerino asking about his availability and what would be the best time to meet.

This doesnt look good at all for officer Cerino or the state...I mean come on guys.

Why?

He's a cop.

He's not suppose to show bias.

 

[ScienceRocks]

BTW, it doesn't matter that Trayvon was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman...what matters is who was the aggressor.

It's crystal clear that Zimmerman saw Trayvon, stalked him and ended up confronting him and ultimately killing him.

How he walks away from this a free man would take a miracle from the good Lord above.

Really?

So Zimmerman didn't have a right to ask Trayvon anything. Why? I would of just told Zimmerman I was going home and I'd hope that would be all.

Unless Zimmerman started a fight with trayvon you don't have a case.

 

[25Caliber]

Oh boy...Omara just nailed Cerino...lord!

The going to class the next day was concerning and cavalier to Cerino?...uh, I dont think so...listen to his questioning of GZ...it was Cerino asking about his availability and what would be the best time to meet.

This doesnt look good at all for officer Cerino or the state...I mean come on guys.

What happened/happening?

On a conference call.

Summary?

PM on the way, test.

 

[MarcATL]

The people trying to send this man to prison need to make a case. So far none...

Everything backs Zimmerman up.
1. Grass stains on the back of his jacket
2. Grass stains on Trayvons knee's
3. Back of Zimmermans head bashed in
4. Zimmermans nose broken
5. Trayvons knuckles bruised
6. Trayvon made it back to the place only to go back towards Zimmerman

The witness that was close said that Zimmerman was on the bottom(man with red jacket).

Please show me how this just isn't so?

Number 6 is PATENTLY FALSE.

The only, and I mean ONLY place this is being asserted is on the USMB board by RWers.

No one has even asserted this in the media, much less in court.

 

[Sallow]

He doesn't have to be 'exposed to lethal force'. All that is required is that he be in fear of death or serious harm to the body.

Riiight.

That's not going to fly.

And it looks more and more like Zimmerman's going to be cooling his murderous heels in the big house for a few.

You mean b/c your going to close your eyes and wish really hard? She made a legal argument that was not opinion based. Either bring a technical retort or STFU.

Technical 'retort'?

If the standard is that low..a bunch of people are going to start dying and Florida will become the new wild west.

Heck..maybe that's what you folks want.

 

[MarcATL]

BTW, it doesn't matter that Trayvon was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman...what matters is who was the aggressor.

It's crystal clear that Zimmerman saw Trayvon, stalked him and ended up confronting him and ultimately killing him.

How he walks away from this a free man would take a miracle from the good Lord above.

Really?

So Zimmerman didn't have a right to ask Trayvon anything. Why? I would of just told Zimmerman I was going home and I'd hope that would be all.

Unless Zimmerman started a fight with trayvon you don't have a case.

Do I have the right to follow you in your neighborhood and ask you what you're doing here in a menacing way?

 

[Missourian]

Well no.

And nothing Zimmerman did made any sense.

He gets out of his truck, because, what? He didn't know where he was?

He lives in a gated community with 3 streets. Additionally..he's patrolling it as part of the watch, frequently.

And what? He thinks Martin may be armed yet he walks through a dark pathway to get the street name? That make any sense whatsoever?

Then when he meets Martin..who may have jumped from some phantom Bushes..oh wait he changed that to..emerged from the darkness..

Martin is walking toward him and they exchange 2 sentences..then Martin hits him. Really?

Then Martin slams his head against the pavement and smothers his mouth. How the fuck is Zimmerman screaming? And why would Martin be screaming if he intended to kill him. What? He wanted an audience?

Nothing this guy makes any sense at all.

I think it's been established that Zimmerman got out of his truck initially to follow Martin.

The dispatcher says it's no necessary, so he stops.

The dispatcher asks him where he is park, he doesn't know the name of the street. Either this is the greatest pre-planning of all times, or he doesn't remember the name of the street.

Adrenaline will do that to ya...it's happened to me personally.

I witnessed an accident on the interstate frontage road very near my home exit.

I knew it was exit 159...always have, still knew it even though I haven't lived there for years...and the next exit was exit 163...where the Bobber Truckstop used to be on I-44 in Missouri...it's a pilot now.

I only go into detail because I know you used to drive a truck, so you'll understand.

For the ininitiated, every trucker knows their Home-20 exit number. Makes it easy to calculate time to home, Milemarker +/- home exits = miles to exit.

But this day my brain made the call for the information and the achives responded "sorry, we're closed, try back later."

Luckily, the homeowner came running out so I didn't have to leave the lady to search out an address like Zimmerman was forced too.

------------------

Have we seen attacks for less?

Yes we have.

Any perceived sleight could cause an attack.

So that logic doesn't fly.

I have some youtube videos as evidence, if you'd like to see them just let me know.

Incorrect...he does not stop...stopping would be going back to his truck immediately...he didnt do that...he proceeds up the path and to the next street...he also says he looked to his right when he approached the courtyard and didnt see trayvon...in other words...still looking.

By continuing up the path even to look for this address in the dark and rain potentially gives the impression to the followeee that he is being followed on foot. He did not stop. Again, you are using hindsight information and your privy to the 911 tape...trayvon didnt hear the tape that you did. You are watching tv poker again...in all do respect.

Fair enough. But what is more important...what happened, or how it was perceived?

Zimmerman stopped following Martin.

He did not take the path he observed Martin take.

He did not know where Martin was.

He was not and could not be between Martin and Martin's house.

Martin had to double back AWAY from home to be at the T.

Not what I would call fearful of being followed.

More likely pissed-off about being surveilled .