The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[TemplarKormac]

No. The claim is that Martin grabbed GZ's head and slammed it against the concrete. It seems reasonable that in doing so, som GZ DNA would get under Martin's fingernails... thus the absence of same is troubeling but not damning.

Huh. That's a good point.

Maybe TM's finger tips weren't deeply clutching GZ's skull. Maybe so. Do you know if they swabbed not only TM's fingernails, but also palms, fingers, etc? IF there was no speck at all of GZ's DNA on any part of TM's hands, then I'd say that's pretty doggone damning.

Trials can be so riveting.

They did not swab any other portion of TM's hands.

What we have here is a half point for the prosecution.

Conversely, Zimmermans blood was found on the cuff of Martin's shirt that he wore underneath the hoody, indicative of his hands being close to where GZ was bleeding... and supporative of the the claim by Zimmerman that TM was slamming his head into the concrete.

What we have here is 2 points for the defense.

They used the same swabs to collect most of the DNA (I thought I heard)... pointless.

 

[Zona]

The weirdest part of this case is when Z claimed that TM sat up after he shot him and said You got me.

Maybe you shot me?

I did not know people could talk with an exploding bullet in the heart and lungs full of blood.

They didn't teach any part of that in "How to kill and get away with it 101."

 

[testarosa]

Maybe you shot me?

I did not know people could talk with an exploding bullet in the heart and lungs full of blood.

They can.

Now you know.

And they can reflex up from the impact of the shot to allow you to get out and hold their hand over the wound.

 

[pioneerpete]

Haven't read all the replies, so sorry if this has been brought up. In regards to the gun being pressed against TM's chest when fired, you should get used to hearing the term "out of battery" when regards to this particular gun. I'm not a gun person, but I'm sure someone can comment on that.

 

[Missourian]

Time for me to get off

Might I direct your attention to post #6665....http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/295416-zimmerman-trial-167.html#post7478489​

Is this bad news or good news? I've had enough bad news for one day.

It's good news! I was just surprised you were sharing it with us...

 

[TemplarKormac]

Haven't read all the replies, so sorry if this has been brought up. In regards to the gun being pressed against TM's chest when fired, you should get used to hearing the term "out of battery" when regards to this particular gun. I'm not a gun person, but I'm sure someone can comment on that.

Out-of-battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Defiant1]

There was already testimony that Zimmerman's injuries were minimal.

Until you've been punched in the nose and had your head slammed onto concrete several times, Sarah...do you REALLY think you have the right to decide what WAS and WASN'T "minimal"?

You seem to think that Zimmerman should have allowed Trayvon Martin to slam his head against the concrete until he had some serious brain damage and only THEN make a decision to use his gun...a notion that's almost laughable.

This isn't someone who drew and shot his gun as someone approached him in a threatening manner...this is someone who drew and shot his gun only after that person punched him in the face, knocked him down onto the ground, straddled him...and slammed his head against the pavement.

Admit it...you don't REALLY feel that there is a legitimate reason for a private citizen to use a firearm to defend themselves.

So says the only witness. You make it sound like there's video from a CCTV instead of an excuse made by an jerk who should have had his gun rights yanked in 2005.

Wow, you just love making up your own laws. Do you have some felony conviction or adjudication of mental incompetency that no one else is aware of?

 

[Zona]

Maybe you shot me?

I did not know people could talk with an exploding bullet in the heart and lungs full of blood.

They can.

Now you know.

Makes so much sense since you have given so much proof.

 

[freedombecki]

That's almost the shootin' match.


There's little evidence now that Martin "grabbed" Zimmerman head and slammed it into the concrete.

Hence the dispelling of one of the major Zimmerman's lies.

You mean besides this, right?

Both injuries are minor.

No they aren't. The man has had a weight gain this past year consistent with hitting damage to the skull. People with that kind of an injury are candidates for early onset dementia, personality change, etc. The blood pattern is consistent with having his head being hit on concrete that has an edge to it, such as the edge of a sidewalk or curb, pebbles on the concrete, or whatever.

What happened to Zimmerman was horrific. His response was to save himself, because he thought he was being hit so hard he could die. Especially when the guy says something to the effect of the other person is going to die.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Essentially, if there were to be any out of battery discharge, it would need to occur if there were no way for the gas to escape from the muzzle, it would rebound back into the breech and burn the hand of whoever was using it. As far as I know, that never happened, there was no matter or particulate from the bullet on his hand, or any burns from an out of battery discharge.

 

[pioneerpete]

Until you've been punched in the nose and had your head slammed onto concrete several times, Sarah...do you REALLY think you have the right to decide what WAS and WASN'T "minimal"?

You seem to think that Zimmerman should have allowed Trayvon Martin to slam his head against the concrete until he had some serious brain damage and only THEN make a decision to use his gun...a notion that's almost laughable.

This isn't someone who drew and shot his gun as someone approached him in a threatening manner...this is someone who drew and shot his gun only after that person punched him in the face, knocked him down onto the ground, straddled him...and slammed his head against the pavement.

Admit it...you don't REALLY feel that there is a legitimate reason for a private citizen to use a firearm to defend themselves.

So says the only witness. You make it sound like there's video from a CCTV instead of an excuse made by an jerk who should have had his gun rights yanked in 2005.

Wow, you just love making up your own laws. Do you have some felony conviction or adjudication of mental incompetency that no one else is aware of?

In the absence of video what is the next best medium? Eye witness? I believe he was also tagged as the only eye witness. That's what we have to go on. Speculation is not admissible in this trial.

 

[deltex1]

That's almost the shootin' match.


There's little evidence now that Martin "grabbed" Zimmerman head and slammed it into the concrete.

Hence the dispelling of one of the major Zimmerman's lies.

Trayvon was punching not scratching...

 

[pioneerpete]

Essentially, if there were to be any out of battery discharge, it would need to occur if there were no way for the gas to escape from the muzzle, it would rebound back into the breech and burn the hand of whoever was using it. As far as I know, that never happened, there was no matter or particulate from the bullet on his hand, or any burns from an out of batter discharge.

Add that with the ME's report of an intermediate shot and there goes that theory.

 

[Vox]

Haven't read all the replies, so sorry if this has been brought up. In regards to the gun being pressed against TM's chest when fired, you should get used to hearing the term "out of battery" when regards to this particular gun. I'm not a gun person, but I'm sure someone can comment on that.

Can't tell about the weapon but if the gun is fired being pressed to one's body the injury differs from the one being fired from aa distance, even a close distance.
That is forensics

Forensic Science Central – Forensic Pathology

 

[Missourian]

I did not know people could talk with an exploding bullet in the heart and lungs full of blood.

They can.

Now you know.

Makes so much sense since you have given so much proof.

Have at it...Chest Wounds: Anatomy, Physiology, and Pathology

 

[TemplarKormac]

Essentially, if there were to be any out of battery discharge, it would need to occur if there were no way for the gas to escape from the muzzle, it would rebound back into the breech and burn the hand of whoever was using it. As far as I know, that never happened, there was no matter or particulate from the bullet on his hand, or any burns from an out of batter discharge.

Add that with the ME's report of an intermediate shot and there goes that theory.

That also means the gun was never pressed against the body of Martin. If it were, you would have an out of battery discharge.

 

[pioneerpete]

Haven't read all the replies, so sorry if this has been brought up. In regards to the gun being pressed against TM's chest when fired, you should get used to hearing the term "out of battery" when regards to this particular gun. I'm not a gun person, but I'm sure someone can comment on that.

Can't tell about the weapon but if the gun is fired being pressed to one's body the injury differs from the one being fired from aa distance, even a close distance.
That is forensics

Forensic Science Central – Forensic Pathology

From what I've been told, with this particular gun, if the slide is even a millimeter out of place or "out of battery" it will not fire a bullet. So if it was pressed against a chest it can not fire a bullet.

 

[Gracie]

I am wondering about the "You Got Me" zimmerman said that Martin said. Anyone else find that kind of strange?

 

[Sarah G]

No. The claim is that Martin grabbed GZ's head and slammed it against the concrete. It seems reasonable that in doing so, som GZ DNA would get under Martin's fingernails... thus the absence of same is troubeling but not damning.

Huh. That's a good point.

Maybe TM's finger tips weren't deeply clutching GZ's skull. Maybe so. Do you know if they swabbed not only TM's fingernails, but also palms, fingers, etc? IF there was no speck at all of GZ's DNA on any part of TM's hands, then I'd say that's pretty doggone damning.

Trials can be so riveting.

They did not swab any other portion of TM's hands.

What we have here is a half point for the prosecution.

Conversely, Zimmermans blood was found on the cuff of Martin's shirt that he wore underneath the hoody, indicative of his hands being close to where GZ was bleeding... and supporative of the the claim by Zimmerman that TM was slamming his head into the concrete.

What we have here is 2 points for the defense.

Why do you feel the need to continue fabricating evidence?

Not true. hoodie stain A was Trevon's, stain B was a negative result for blood, stain C positive result for blood but he was unable to obtain dna results.

Swabbed for foreign to Treyvon for blood on cuffs, elbow to cuff, negative for right cuff.

Left cuff, negative for blood. For the hooded jacket, no Zimmerman blood, DNA. That means, he didn't beat poor old Zimmerman up but he was murdered anyway.

One small stain on the grey sweatshirt at the waist hem.

 

[25Caliber]

I just heard Martins mother is going to be allowed to take the stand. WTF kind 9f circus rules are they going by? She didn't see shit so what's she going to say that isn't completely skewed?

With a conviction this will be grounds for an automatic retrial or appeal.

Just plain dumb for the judge to allow. Her testimony will be COMPLETELY tainted with grief and emotion NOT facts.

The assumption is that Martin's mother will testify that the screams for help on the 911 call are Trayvon's. That would normally be powerful testimony except in this case Trayvon's father initially told the Police that the screams on the 911 tape WERE NOT his son's. So if the Defense calls him and brings that into evidence...then presents witnesses that know George Zimmerman to testify that it IS him screaming for help then Trayvon's mother's testimony will essentially be cancelled out. Especially when it's pointed out that the father's testimony changed prior to a civil suit in which the Martin family got an estimated million dollar settlement from the homeowners group.

Agree. I believe it was GZ calling for help. I think thats a very reasonable assumption based on what we know. But I do think that a mother has the right to get on the stand and testify to the character of her dead son. I also think that her testifying to it being her son calling for help would be a mistake considering the previous acknowledgement of her ex husband. The defense will cross examine and refute that if it happens.

If the prosecution is making the case that Trayvon was defending himself, then they should be able to acknowledge that Trayvon was defending himself against a person who eventually had to call for help because of it. Again, this claiming it was Trayvons voice by the prosecution is just bad and shady...it was the state and its investigators and law enforcement that believed GZ and didnt arrest or charge initially because of it. Now they are doing a complete flip flop, but their witnesses are holding to their original belief of GZ...Im not a lawyer (thats obvious, Im sure...lol), but the job the prosecution is doing thus far is just bad.