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Did you get that from a statute, case law, or some scholarly legal journal? Or did you get that from thin air?
I think the latter, because in all my years I have never read or heard of such a "reasonable perception" standard.
Well then you simply arent putting yourself in the position of the person being followed in the dark and rain. The very fact that Zimmerman is asked "Do you have a problem"? tells me the impression Trayvon had and that GZ caused.
First, I think you are confusing what Zimmerman said and what Martin said. I was under the impression that Martin said "do you have a problem;" not the other way around.
Second, I certainly have considered what I would have done if in that position. Being that I was close to home, I most likely would have gone there, called the police, and explained that some creepy guy was following me around the neighborhood. That's what reasonable people do; they don't go out and get themselves into physical altercations unless they are absolutely necessary.
if you are siting on top of someone and you punch them in the face.... their head will hit the ground. Same with a bitch slap.
so nothing would be under martins fingernails now would it? You get dna under the victims nails since it is a defensive move.
Zimmerman had no hair, so there was nothing to grab onto in order to slam his head on the ground. Additionally..................if Martin had actually held his hands over Zimmerman's face and nose as he'd claimed, there WOULD be DNA under Martin's fingernails.
Good points. All to easy to say see this fits with GZ's pathological lying and cowardly killing of the teen.
I do hope you are saying that tongue-in-cheek. I would hate to think you were another Sarah who had already rushed to judgment.
Foxfire, I rarely even have an exchange with you, why not stfu about me? I do have my own opinions about things and I will post it here or anywhere I choose.
That's almost the shootin' match.
There's little evidence now that Martin "grabbed" Zimmerman head and slammed it into the concrete.
Hence the dispelling of one of the major Zimmerman's lies.
I guess the eye-witness must have seen another Trayvan Martin beating the crap out of a completely different George Zimmerman.
BTW, how does one get DNA under one's fingernails other than scratching someone, not bashing someone's head in?
George Zimmerman?s relevant past
His cousin did a lot more than talk about the molestation. She also said he was very racist and always had been.
If he was 9 and she was 8, which I believe they were, it is a non issue. Kids that age check each other out on a regular basis.
You're so stupid. You make excuses for these kind of people all the time.
I do hope you are saying that tongue-in-cheek. I would hate to think you were another Sarah who had already rushed to judgment.
Foxfire, I rarely even have an exchange with you, why not stfu about me? I do have my own opinions about things and I will post it here or anywhere I choose.
You aren't even in the quotes above.
Just saying.
If he was 9 and she was 8, which I believe they were, it is a non issue. Kids that age check each other out on a regular basis.
You're so stupid. You make excuses for these kind of people all the time.
Is it smart to hear one side of a story and draw a hard, fast conclusion without hearing the other side of a story?
Not really.
"Common Sense" tells me that a person does not have the right to shoot another person, especially if that person is unarmed and isn't breaking the law.
So when the shooter is the only one around to tell the story, one has to be very careful to make sure that story checks out.
And given the circumstances? It better be a good story.
This just wasn't.
You DO have the right to shoot another person when that other person is beating you and pounding your head into the pavement if, under those circumstances, you reasonably feel that your life is in peril or your are facing the risk of serious physical injury because of the beat down.
It doesn't matter if the other guy is armed or not. Oh, and that kind of a beat down IS breaking the law.
Quite often, the one who resorts to self defense IS the only surviving witness.
The only problem with that..is that you have to establish that it was the type of beating that warranted the action.
You make thing a few boo boos are life threatening. I don't.
And given that it was Zimmerman that initiated the incident, I think that "self defense" here should require, at the very least, a reasonable fear that death was imminent.
Not really.
"Common Sense" tells me that a person does not have the right to shoot another person, especially if that person is unarmed and isn't breaking the law.
So when the shooter is the only one around to tell the story, one has to be very careful to make sure that story checks out.
And given the circumstances? It better be a good story.
This just wasn't.
You DO have the right to shoot another person when that other person is beating you and pounding your head into the pavement if, under those circumstances, you reasonably feel that your life is in peril or your are facing the risk of serious physical injury because of the beat down.
It doesn't matter if the other guy is armed or not. Oh, and that kind of a beat down IS breaking the law.
Quite often, the one who resorts to self defense IS the only surviving witness.
The only problem with that..is that you have to establish that it was the type of beating that warranted the action.
You make thing a few boo boos are life threatening. I don't.
And given that it was Zimmerman that initiated the incident, I think that "self defense" here should require, at the very least, a reasonable fear that death was imminent.
Well then you simply arent putting yourself in the position of the person being followed in the dark and rain. The very fact that Zimmerman is asked "Do you have a problem"? tells me the impression Trayvon had and that GZ caused.
First, I think you are confusing what Zimmerman said and what Martin said. I was under the impression that Martin said "do you have a problem;" not the other way around.
Second, I certainly have considered what I would have done if in that position. Being that I was close to home, I most likely would have gone there, called the police, and explained that some creepy guy was following me around the neighborhood. That's what reasonable people do; they don't go out and get themselves into physical altercations unless they are absolutely necessary.
Trying to catch this fix before Rat hits it.
Being that I was close to home, I most likely would have gone there, called the police, and explained that some creepy cracka azz was following me around the neighborhood. That's what reasonable people do; they don't go out and get themselves into physical altercations unless they are absolutely necessary.
There I fixed it.
That's almost the shootin' match.
There's little evidence now that Martin "grabbed" Zimmerman head and slammed it into the concrete.
Hence the dispelling of one of the major Zimmerman's lies.
I guess the eye-witness must have seen another Trayvan Martin beating the crap out of a completely different George Zimmerman.
BTW, how does one get DNA under one's fingernails other than scratching someone, not bashing someone's head in?
Which eye witness what that?
And how exact, does one grab a hairless scalp and bash it into the pavement without transference of DNA. Especially given all that rain.
Your "point" is a closer approximation of stupid.
Kids DO play doctor. First time I ever saw a girl's genitalia, she and I were playing doctor in her folks detached garage. I was in first grade.
If she had claimed that I had molested her (untrue) that would not have made her claim true (except for the visual examination part, I suppose). But hey. She checked out my first grade package too.
That slut.
That's first grade, he was 9 and that is 4th grade. There's a big difference there.
Not necesarily. And that means his cousin was in 3rd. Are you going to try to pretend that the BIG BAD 4th grader somehow took advantage of the poor innocent and helpless 3rd grader?
You were there?
YOU know the "facts?"
Or, as always, do you just accept as true that which you find helpful to your spin?
I do hope you are saying that tongue-in-cheek. I would hate to think you were another Sarah who had already rushed to judgment.
Foxfire, I rarely even have an exchange with you, why not stfu about me? I do have my own opinions about things and I will post it here or anywhere I choose.
You aren't even in the quotes above.
Just saying.
Probably most of us have had to endure a lie told about us when we had no way to defend ourselves against it. And we hope to God that those who matter do not believe the liar.
Remember this one time... in 6th grade.. some kid, the class bully, shot a spit ball over the divider between classes. The teacher from the other class came around and caught the kid shooting another one. The kid points to me and says I did it too. Which was a lie. I was the all A student and this kid wanted someone to share the blame. The other kids in the class said he was lying. The teacher brought me and my accuser to the principles office. I got 5 whacks from the paddle. Took me a long time to, err, I've never trusted authority figures ever since. I beat the carp out of the class bully after school. Hated that school.
Oh yeah ... I was being bussed... to a distant school this was during the time when they started busing kids to promote integration.
A little more info here for those who just want to minimize the molestation.
From when he was 8 until he was 18.
Allegedly isn't fact. Nothing I've researched on this has said there are witnesses to corroborate it.
Woman Says George Zimmerman Molested Her For More Than A Decade
It started when I was six, the woman told investigators during an interview on the morning of March 20. Wed all lay in front of the TV and we had pillows and blankets and he would reach under the blankets and try to do things and I would try to push him off but he was bigger and stronger and older, the woman said, audibly weeping in the Florida State Attorney's Office interview recording released Monday. It was in front of everybody and I dont know how I didnt say anything, I just didnt know any better.
It was done in front of everyone, according to her, and yet noone saw anything?
And if there are witnesses to corroborate it, how come nothing was ever said about it until now?
Well then you simply arent putting yourself in the position of the person being followed in the dark and rain. The very fact that Zimmerman is asked "Do you have a problem"? tells me the impression Trayvon had and that GZ caused.
First, I think you are confusing what Zimmerman said and what Martin said. I was under the impression that Martin said "do you have a problem;" not the other way around.
Second, I certainly have considered what I would have done if in that position. Being that I was close to home, I most likely would have gone there, called the police, and explained that some creepy guy was following me around the neighborhood. That's what reasonable people do; they don't go out and get themselves into physical altercations unless they are absolutely necessary.
First, I said "Zimmerman is asked"...there shouldn't be any confusion.
Second, by saying what you would have done, it is clear to me what your PERCEPTION would have been that night after being followed in the dark and rain...that was my point.
That's first grade, he was 9 and that is 4th grade. There's a big difference there.
Not necesarily. And that means his cousin was in 3rd. Are you going to try to pretend that the BIG BAD 4th grader somehow took advantage of the poor innocent and helpless 3rd grader?
You were there?
YOU know the "facts?"
Or, as always, do you just accept as true that which you find helpful to your spin?
When I was 9, I was "gang molested" by 3 older cousins. They were 10,12 and 14. I had a blast! I wish we were all about 4 years older.
George Zimmermans attorney didnt want the damaging statement of Witness 9 released. With good reason. From when he was 8 years old until he was 18, the killer of Trayvon Martin allegedly molested a female relative two years younger than he. Its a gasp-worthy revelation in an ongoing story filled with them. But its totally irrelevant to the second-degree murder charge Zimmerman faces.
Zimmerman?s appalling and irrelevant alleged sexual assault - PostPartisan - The Washington Post
A little more info here for those who just want to minimize the molestation.
From when he was 8 until he was 18.
Allegedly isn't fact. Nothing I've researched on this has said there are witnesses to corroborate it.
Woman Says George Zimmerman Molested Her For More Than A Decade
It started when I was six, the woman told investigators during an interview on the morning of March 20. Wed all lay in front of the TV and we had pillows and blankets and he would reach under the blankets and try to do things and I would try to push him off but he was bigger and stronger and older, the woman said, audibly weeping in the Florida State Attorney's Office interview recording released Monday. It was in front of everybody and I dont know how I didnt say anything, I just didnt know any better.
It was done in front of everyone, according to her, and yet noone saw anything?
First, I think you are confusing what Zimmerman said and what Martin said. I was under the impression that Martin said "do you have a problem;" not the other way around.
Second, I certainly have considered what I would have done if in that position. Being that I was close to home, I most likely would have gone there, called the police, and explained that some creepy guy was following me around the neighborhood. That's what reasonable people do; they don't go out and get themselves into physical altercations unless they are absolutely necessary.
First, I said "Zimmerman is asked"...there shouldn't be any confusion.
Second, by saying what you would have done, it is clear to me what your PERCEPTION would have been that night after being followed in the dark and rain...that was my point.
You're right; I misread it. Happened yesterday to Sarah G too. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked again!
I apologize.
Now, as to your second. I never stated anywhere, in this thread or otherwise, that Martin would be in the wrong to perceive Zimmerman as apprehensive. If someone you don't know approaches you, even in the most benign situations, natural instinct gives rise to some uneasiness. That has nothing to do with what a reasonable response would be in that situation.
