The "Palestinians" Gave Up Sovereign Claims Long Ago

[ima]

iro loves Israel so much that she lives in the US. And she's so old that dead people don't envy her.

 

[kvetch]

as far as I remember, Blake's New Jerusalem was England (Albion?). He adopted an idea. Does this mean that he abandoned, in his private practice of religion, the focal role of the actual Jerusalem? I don't know. I won't judge his personal theology by looking at his writings (or wood carvings).

i dont, either

he was religious, I think but what kind I don't know

yes...albion is what england is also called

 

[rosends]

as far as I remember, Blake's New Jerusalem was England (Albion?). He adopted an idea. Does this mean that he abandoned, in his private practice of religion, the focal role of the actual Jerusalem? I don't know. I won't judge his personal theology by looking at his writings (or wood carvings).

i dont, either

he was religious, I think but what kind I don't know

yes...albion is what england is also called

this is the albion I was remembering

 

[YKohen]

churchill was a dirty filthy racist and a war criminal.....and I'm british

he just had 2 truly great years in 1940 and 1941 and a was great writer

that apart................he stinx

Yeah. He should have let your parents go to the ovens. That would have been the moral thing to do.

Y-Kohen

i find that shot of yours offensive as well as wildly inaccurate

you and I have stalin and the red army's 20 million dead to thank for saving our folk far more than anyone else

if hitler had not invaded USSR both Britain and Palestine would have been overrun with little difficulty

Stalin hated Jews-or didn't you know? He allied himself with Hitler, and it was only because he was doublecrossed that he ended up fighting against him; not because hewas a philo-Semite.

 

[YKohen]

The New Israel And The Old
Why Gentile Americans Back The Jewish State
By Walter Russell Mead

Summary: The real key to Washington's pro-Israel policy is long-lasting and broad-based support for the Jewish state among the American public at large.

... As the Truman biographer David McCullough has written, Truman's support for the Jewish state was "wildly popular" throughout the United States. A Gallup poll in June 1948 showed that almost three times as many Americans "sympathized with the Jews" as "sympathized with the Arabs." That support was no flash in the pan. Widespread gentile support for Israel is one of the most potent political forces in U.S. foreign policy, and in the last 60 years, there has never been a Gallup poll showing more Americans sympathizing with the Arabs or the Palestinians than with the Israelis.
Over time, moreover, the pro-Israel sentiment in the United States has increased, especially among non-Jews...

Truman regretted supporting Israel after Israel refused his constant demands to restore the pal refugees to their landsl

Eisenhower was Israel's only true USA friend when he ordered Israel, Britain and France out of Sinai and Suez

Other USA govts should have supported israel by ordering it back to 1967 borders as they could have done and there could be peace now

as it is; people like you settler folx have deliberately made peace impossible

Have you ever opened a history book? Just curious.

 

[kvetch]

yeah ---ok kvetch-----sure------I have the utmost faith in your uhm....'sincerity' In any case----yes----christians have picked up the "zion" as "spiritual zion" idea LONG AGO ----in fact it is a kind of
theme employed by the founders of the USA and--of course----then there are the mormons who transferred the idea to Utah -----long ago----when hubby and I were just "keeping company"-----as my Victorian grandma would describe it-------he noted all those HEBREW WORDS all over the USA "bethesda hospital" "zion" this or that I doubt you guys in england do it as much-----but over here the more RURAL you get the more hebrew splashed all over the place in names of towns, streets, parks, public institutions -----and even the most popular names of people. I believe that the more naive bible readers among the early americans did not even know that they were throwing so much ZIONISM around----they just USED words out of the "HOLY BOOK"

yes indeed

English towns are named by rapist hordes of romans, saxons, vikings, etc etc.

people's names used to be largely hebrew in origin

But now people including my stepson are all naming their babies after moronic celebrities or inventing stoopid ones like in USA.

Back to Zion's names, like 2 of mine would be a great improvement!!

 

[kvetch]

The New Israel And The Old
Why Gentile Americans Back The Jewish State
By Walter Russell Mead

Summary: The real key to Washington's pro-Israel policy is long-lasting and broad-based support for the Jewish state among the American public at large.

... As the Truman biographer David McCullough has written, Truman's support for the Jewish state was "wildly popular" throughout the United States. A Gallup poll in June 1948 showed that almost three times as many Americans "sympathized with the Jews" as "sympathized with the Arabs." That support was no flash in the pan. Widespread gentile support for Israel is one of the most potent political forces in U.S. foreign policy, and in the last 60 years, there has never been a Gallup poll showing more Americans sympathizing with the Arabs or the Palestinians than with the Israelis.
Over time, moreover, the pro-Israel sentiment in the United States has increased, especially among non-Jews...

Truman regretted supporting Israel after Israel refused his constant demands to restore the pal refugees to their landsl

Eisenhower was Israel's only true USA friend when he ordered Israel, Britain and France out of Sinai and Suez

Other USA govts should have supported israel by ordering it back to 1967 borders as they could have done and there could be peace now

as it is; people like you settler folx have deliberately made peace impossible

Have you ever opened a history book? Just curious.

that wont do

i have a history degree

answer the points properly

dont you have a ready zio hasbara cyber blurb for every accuate observation

 

[YKohen]

Truman regretted supporting Israel after Israel refused his constant demands to restore the pal refugees to their landsl

Eisenhower was Israel's only true USA friend when he ordered Israel, Britain and France out of Sinai and Suez

Other USA govts should have supported israel by ordering it back to 1967 borders as they could have done and there could be peace now

as it is; people like you settler folx have deliberately made peace impossible

Have you ever opened a history book? Just curious.

that wont do

i have a history degree

answer the points properly

dont you have a ready zio hasbara cyber blurb for every accuate observation

OK, Ms. "Historian":

1. Document your claim about Truman.

2. Eisenhower wasn't angry about 1956 because he was Israel's friend and looking out for Israel's interests.

3. US governments couldn't "order Israel back". UN 242 didn't call for it- as the entire west agreed. It was only your beloved Soviet Union and the Arabs who disagreed.

4. It wasn't a border. It was only a cease-fire line; NEVER RECOGNIZED AS A BORDER.

5. It woudn't have brought peace. If that were the issue, then the Six Day War never would have been fought in the first place. This is why right after the Six Day War, the Arabs issued the "3 No's" of Khartoum:

• No peace with Israel
• No recognition of Israel
• No negotiations with Israel

6. There IS peace now; because the Arabs know what war with us means for them.

 

[kvetch]

Yeah. He should have let your parents go to the ovens. That would have been the moral thing to do.

Y-Kohen

i find that shot of yours offensive as well as wildly inaccurate

you and I have stalin and the red army's 20 million dead to thank for saving our folk far more than anyone else

if hitler had not invaded USSR both Britain and Palestine would have been overrun with little difficulty

Stalin hated Jews-or didn't you know? He allied himself with Hitler, and it was only because he was doublecrossed that he ended up fighting against him; not because hewas a philo-Semite.

all true

but he was invaded full on....a little bit more than double crossed

he also supported israel at UN at first and armed it via czech in 1948

both of these were absolutely critical and vital

israel, unlike UK or USA has a memorial to the red army's dead, or so i have heard

have you been there?

they not churchill saved our parents from the ovens

churchills party, the conservatives also wanted to ally with hitler against the USSR before 1938

and churchill and his party closed UK doors to jewish refugees as did USA; my family were heavily involved in saving them and dad was wounded in the war

when faced with demands from Uk jews and socialists to bomb the railways to auschwitz and the other ovens and camps, he refused

preferred to incinerate a million innocent civilians in cities far from any military targets

you dont sound like you know or care much about people or history outside your narrow judaeo sphere

now i'll answer your sincere curiosity about our prophets and the christians

please note I said to rosie i'm tryin hard to be more positive towards israel and zionism

you aint exactly helpin, sir

 

[irosie91]

neither Churchill nor Stalin had JEWS in mind when they were involved in World War II That would be ADOLF ABU ALI and AL HUSSEINI_----and--of course Adolf Eichmann
( I do not know Eichmann's arabic name)

 

[YKohen]

Y-Kohen

i find that shot of yours offensive as well as wildly inaccurate

you and I have stalin and the red army's 20 million dead to thank for saving our folk far more than anyone else

if hitler had not invaded USSR both Britain and Palestine would have been overrun with little difficulty

Stalin hated Jews-or didn't you know? He allied himself with Hitler, and it was only because he was doublecrossed that he ended up fighting against him; not because hewas a philo-Semite.

all true

but he was invaded full on....a little bit more than double crossed

he also supported israel at UN at first and armed it via czech in 1948

both of these were absolutely critical and vital

israel, unlike UK or USA has a memorial to the red army's dead, or so i have heard

have you been there?

they not churchill saved our parents from the ovens

churchills party, the conservatives also wanted to ally with hitler against the USSR before 1938

and churchill and his party closed UK doors to jewish refugees as did USA; my family were heavily involved in saving them and dad was wounded in the war

when faced with demands from Uk jews and socialists to bomb the railways to auschwitz and the other ovens and camps, he refused

preferred to incinerate a million innocent civilians in cities far from any military targets

you dont sound like you know or care much about people or history outside your narrow judaeo sphere

now i'll answer your sincere curiosity about our prophets and the christians

please note I said to rosie i'm tryin hard to be more positive towards israel and zionism

you aint exactly helpin, sir

Stalin's support of Israel was a shot at the West. He already had Birobidzhan for the Jews. And within a very short period after Israel was established, Stalin was outright hostile.

Israel was a source of pride to the Jews of the USSR- who began to suffer more and more under Stalin: The purges, the Dr.'s plot, etc.

It is no coincidence that the Arabs became client states of USSR.

Churchill's guilt was that he already had a duty to establish the state of Israel- as Great Britain had committed themselves to do in 1917. Instead, they closed the gates of immigration with the White Paper. But Churchill was not guilty of wanting to join with the Nazis.

Still, he is the reason why you are alive today.

 

[YKohen]

neither Churchill nor Stalin had JEWS in mind when they were involved in World War II That would be ADOLF ABU ALI and AL HUSSEINI_----and--of course Adolf Eichmann
( I do not know Eichmann's arabic name)

True:

Images:Islamic Nazism - WikiIslam

 

[kvetch]

Have you ever opened a history book? Just curious.

that wont do

i have a history degree

answer the points properly

dont you have a ready zio hasbara cyber blurb for every accuate observation

OK, Ms. "Historian":

1. Document your claim about Truman.

2. Eisenhower wasn't angry about 1956 because he was Israel's friend and looking out for Israel's interests.

3. US governments couldn't "order Israel back". UN 242 didn't call for it- as the entire west agreed. It was only your beloved Soviet Union and the Arabs who disagreed.

4. It wasn't a border. It was only a cease-fire line; NEVER RECOGNIZED AS A BORDER.

5. It woudn't have brought peace. If that were the issue, then the Six Day War never would have been fought in the first place. This is why right after the Six Day War, the Arabs issued the "3 No's" of Khartoum:

• No peace with Israel
• No recognition of Israel
• No negotiations with Israel

6. There IS peace now; because the Arabs know what war with us means for them.

OK, Ms. "Historian":

i am Mr..........men kvetch too you know....even you

1. Document your claim about Truman.

several wikipedia pages around the 1948 et seq refugee and UN negotiations are full of it, especially israels accession to UN membersip when they told loads of lies and promised all sorts according to thw wiki accounts

i almost never read anti israel hasbara stuff...always neutral or honest israeli sources

2. Eisenhower wasn't angry about 1956 because he was Israel's friend and looking out for Israel's interests.

that's my opinion....not eisenhower's !!

3. US governments couldn't "order Israel back". UN 242 didn't call for it- as the entire west agreed. It was only your beloved Soviet Union and the Arabs who disagreed.

they could have stopped you guys building so many settlements that it can't be done now

4. It wasn't a border. It was only a cease-fire line; NEVER RECOGNIZED AS A BORDER.

its a border when israel is complaining about hamas shooting at their own former lands
or when it suits them;
when its about the territories, it aint

i've watched ayalon or whatever your real foreign secretary is called doin exactly that!

5. It woudn't have brought peace. If that were the issue, then the Six Day War never would have been fought in the first place. This is why right after the Six Day War, the Arabs issued the "3 No's" of Khartoum:

No peace with Israel
No recognition of Israel
No negotiations with Israel

i have no regard for any arab leader then now or at any time whatsoever

6. There IS peace now; because the Arabs know what war with us means for them.
Reply With Quote

you would still start a war to win an election like so many times before when there was the sort of peace there is now

 

[YKohen]

that wont do

i have a history degree

answer the points properly

dont you have a ready zio hasbara cyber blurb for every accuate observation

OK, Ms. "Historian":

1. Document your claim about Truman.

2. Eisenhower wasn't angry about 1956 because he was Israel's friend and looking out for Israel's interests.

3. US governments couldn't "order Israel back". UN 242 didn't call for it- as the entire west agreed. It was only your beloved Soviet Union and the Arabs who disagreed.

4. It wasn't a border. It was only a cease-fire line; NEVER RECOGNIZED AS A BORDER.

5. It woudn't have brought peace. If that were the issue, then the Six Day War never would have been fought in the first place. This is why right after the Six Day War, the Arabs issued the "3 No's" of Khartoum:

• No peace with Israel
• No recognition of Israel
• No negotiations with Israel

6. There IS peace now; because the Arabs know what war with us means for them.

OK, Ms. "Historian":

i am Mr..........men kvetch too you know....even you

1. Document your claim about Truman.

several wikipedia pages around the 1948 et seq refugee and UN negotiations are full of it, especially israels accession to UN membersip when they told loads of lies and promised all sorts according to thw wiki accounts

i almost never read anti israel hasbara stuff...always neutral or honest israeli sources

2. Eisenhower wasn't angry about 1956 because he was Israel's friend and looking out for Israel's interests.

that's my opinion....not eisenhower's !!

3. US governments couldn't "order Israel back". UN 242 didn't call for it- as the entire west agreed. It was only your beloved Soviet Union and the Arabs who disagreed.

they could have stopped you guys building so many settlements that it can't be done now

4. It wasn't a border. It was only a cease-fire line; NEVER RECOGNIZED AS A BORDER.

its a border when israel is complaining about hamas shooting at their own former lands
or when it suits them;
when its about the territories, it aint

i've watched ayalon or whatever your real foreign secretary is called doin exactly that!

5. It woudn't have brought peace. If that were the issue, then the Six Day War never would have been fought in the first place. This is why right after the Six Day War, the Arabs issued the "3 No's" of Khartoum:

No peace with Israel
No recognition of Israel
No negotiations with Israel

i have no regard for any arab leader then now or at any time whatsoever

6. There IS peace now; because the Arabs know what war with us means for them.
Reply With Quote

you would still start a war to win an election like so many times before when there was the sort of peace there is now

Sorry about the gender mix-up. Men don't kvetch. We complain about real issues. Women kvetch.

A lot.

Really a lot.

In any case:

1. Totally bogus. Any History professor would fail you on that lack of documentation. Cite specific documents; letters, missives, conversations- names, dates, etc... And provide the source.
2. Then it isn't a fact.
3. No they couldn't. Their official policy is that the 2 sides must work it out face to face. If the Arabs remain intransigent, then they pay the price. And by the way, the Arabs had 10 years from after the Six Day War until we began to build.
4. It's never a border. Had it been a border, thenthe Arabs would have accepted it from 1948-1967; but they didn't.
5. That has no bearing on the Arab-Israeli conflict. What I posted did and does.
6. Is that even English?

I'm going to bed now. You should do some reading before posting. Seriously.

 

[kvetch]

Stalin hated Jews-or didn't you know? He allied himself with Hitler, and it was only because he was doublecrossed that he ended up fighting against him; not because hewas a philo-Semite.

all true

but he was invaded full on....a little bit more than double crossed

he also supported israel at UN at first and armed it via czech in 1948

both of these were absolutely critical and vital

israel, unlike UK or USA has a memorial to the red army's dead, or so i have heard

have you been there?

they not churchill saved our parents from the ovens

churchills party, the conservatives also wanted to ally with hitler against the USSR before 1938

and churchill and his party closed UK doors to jewish refugees as did USA; my family were heavily involved in saving them and dad was wounded in the war

when faced with demands from Uk jews and socialists to bomb the railways to auschwitz and the other ovens and camps, he refused

preferred to incinerate a million innocent civilians in cities far from any military targets

you dont sound like you know or care much about people or history outside your narrow judaeo sphere

now i'll answer your sincere curiosity about our prophets and the christians

please note I said to rosie i'm tryin hard to be more positive towards israel and zionism

you aint exactly helpin, sir

Stalin's support of Israel was a shot at the West. He already had Birobidzhan for the Jews. And within a very short period after Israel was established, Stalin was outright hostile.

Israel was a source of pride to the Jews of the USSR- who began to suffer more and more under Stalin: The purges, the Dr.'s plot, etc.

It is no coincidence that the Arabs became client states of USSR.

Churchill's guilt was that he already had a duty to establish the state of Israel- as Great Britain had committed themselves to do in 1917. Instead, they closed the gates of immigration with the White Paper. But Churchill was not guilty of wanting to join with the Nazis.

Still, he is the reason why you are alive today.

i praised him as a war leader for the 2 years when our survival really was at stake

but if hitler had invaded straight after dunkirk in 1940 he would have won, churchill or no

churchill delayed for 2 years really joining the fight against hitler in france as stalin and roosevelt wanted; that sent lots of jews to ovens

and the troops and people of the UK hated him by the end of the war and slung him out by the hugest lanslide ever in Uk history; unusual for a victorious war leader

he also deliberately starved millions of bengali indians to death in 1943 and 44 at a time when hundreds of thousands of indians were fighting in europe

bombed kurds with poison gas and killed twice as many as saddam

and loads more

he hated indians after he served there and arabs after he had served in egypt and sudan

not sure if he had special regard for jews; his party was very anti jewish until thatcher in 1979

a great man in some ways; a monster in others

things aint all black and white you know

 

[YKohen]

all true

but he was invaded full on....a little bit more than double crossed

he also supported israel at UN at first and armed it via czech in 1948

both of these were absolutely critical and vital

israel, unlike UK or USA has a memorial to the red army's dead, or so i have heard

have you been there?

they not churchill saved our parents from the ovens

churchills party, the conservatives also wanted to ally with hitler against the USSR before 1938

and churchill and his party closed UK doors to jewish refugees as did USA; my family were heavily involved in saving them and dad was wounded in the war

when faced with demands from Uk jews and socialists to bomb the railways to auschwitz and the other ovens and camps, he refused

preferred to incinerate a million innocent civilians in cities far from any military targets

you dont sound like you know or care much about people or history outside your narrow judaeo sphere

now i'll answer your sincere curiosity about our prophets and the christians

please note I said to rosie i'm tryin hard to be more positive towards israel and zionism

you aint exactly helpin, sir

Stalin's support of Israel was a shot at the West. He already had Birobidzhan for the Jews. And within a very short period after Israel was established, Stalin was outright hostile.

Israel was a source of pride to the Jews of the USSR- who began to suffer more and more under Stalin: The purges, the Dr.'s plot, etc.

It is no coincidence that the Arabs became client states of USSR.

Churchill's guilt was that he already had a duty to establish the state of Israel- as Great Britain had committed themselves to do in 1917. Instead, they closed the gates of immigration with the White Paper. But Churchill was not guilty of wanting to join with the Nazis.

Still, he is the reason why you are alive today.

i praised him as a war leader for the 2 years when our survival really was at stake

but if hitler had invaded straight after dunkirk in 1940 he would have won, churchill or no

churchill delayed for 2 years really joining the fight against hitler in france as stalin and roosevelt wanted; that sent lots of jews to ovens

and the troops and people of the UK hated him by the end of the war and slung him out by the hugest lanslide ever in Uk history; unusual for a victorious war leader

he also deliberately starved millions of bengali indians to death in 1943 and 44 at a time when hundreds of thousands of indians were fighting in europe

bombed kurds with poison gas and killed twice as many as saddam

and loads more

he hated indians after he served there and arabs after he had served in egypt and sudan

not sure if he had special regard for jews; his party was very anti jewish until thatcher in 1979

a great man in some ways; a monster in others

things aint all black and white you know

Your survival was at stake beyond 1941.

But I do agree about the black and white.

G'night.

 

[Hossfly]

iro loves Israel so much that she lives in the US. And she's so old that dead people don't envy her.

I doubt if a cadaver would envy some Haus frau like you, Ima. How do we even know that you are not older than IRosie and are just posing as someone young? For all we know, you could be sitting in a nursing home posting because you are so bored.

 

[Billo_Really]

De facto, by rejecting UN 181 in 1948- the resolution that was going to establish two states here, they gave up claims to a state.

And de jure, in 1964 with their PLO Charter, they gave up all sovereign claims:

"THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER" (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni), Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area.

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

Anything unclear?

Yeah, your brain.

There's over 200 UN resolutions that say you're wrong.

As well as IHL and every nation on the planet.

 

[kvetch]

De facto, by rejecting UN 181 in 1948- the resolution that was going to establish two states here, they gave up claims to a state.

And de jure, in 1964 with their PLO Charter, they gave up all sovereign claims:

"THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER" (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni), Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area.

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

Anything unclear?

Yeah, your brain.

There's over 200 UN resolutions that say you're wrong.

As well as IHL and every nation on the planet.

y-Kohen is a really hard core settler living on stolen land in the west bank in case you didn't know

not possible to argue with him

 

[pbel]

Stalin's support of Israel was a shot at the West. He already had Birobidzhan for the Jews. And within a very short period after Israel was established, Stalin was outright hostile.

Israel was a source of pride to the Jews of the USSR- who began to suffer more and more under Stalin: The purges, the Dr.'s plot, etc.

It is no coincidence that the Arabs became client states of USSR.

Churchill's guilt was that he already had a duty to establish the state of Israel- as Great Britain had committed themselves to do in 1917. Instead, they closed the gates of immigration with the White Paper. But Churchill was not guilty of wanting to join with the Nazis.

Still, he is the reason why you are alive today.

i praised him as a war leader for the 2 years when our survival really was at stake

but if hitler had invaded straight after dunkirk in 1940 he would have won, churchill or no

churchill delayed for 2 years really joining the fight against hitler in france as stalin and roosevelt wanted; that sent lots of jews to ovens

and the troops and people of the UK hated him by the end of the war and slung him out by the hugest lanslide ever in Uk history; unusual for a victorious war leader

he also deliberately starved millions of bengali indians to death in 1943 and 44 at a time when hundreds of thousands of indians were fighting in europe

bombed kurds with poison gas and killed twice as many as saddam

and loads more

he hated indians after he served there and arabs after he had served in egypt and sudan

not sure if he had special regard for jews; his party was very anti jewish until thatcher in 1979

a great man in some ways; a monster in others

things aint all black and white you know

Your survival was at stake beyond 1941.

But I do agree about the black and white.

G'night.

Churchill was a typical British Pirate...