The practical morality of abortion

[2aguy]

No. eventually all life will become expendable......

What does that even mean?

jesus.

When you dismiss the life of a human just because it is small, then it becomes easier to kill the baby in the 3rd trimester, then life becomes a matter of convenience....and you look at the elderly and ask...what do they give to society, keeping them alive is inconvenient.....and convenience is the standard, not the life itself....

So you think making all abortion the crime of murder is necessary to keep us from murdering old people?

lol

To keep us from murdering people of all ages......value the smallest human and you will tend to value all humans as a society.

Normal people don't think like that, sorry.

Define normal.....those who value babies, or those who believe it is right to kill them for convenience....?

 

[Wildman]

If a woman chooses to have an abortion it's nobody else's business except her's and that of the doctor performing the procedure.

what about the life of the one being killed, then dismembered and sold as "TISSUE", i guess that don't mater to you libertards..., does it ????

 

[NYcarbineer]

If a woman chooses to have an abortion it's nobody else's business except her's and that of the doctor performing the procedure.

what about the life of the one being killed, then dismembered and sold as "TISSUE", i guess that don't mater to you libertards..., does it ????

No, it doesn't.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What does that even mean?

jesus.

When you dismiss the life of a human just because it is small, then it becomes easier to kill the baby in the 3rd trimester, then life becomes a matter of convenience....and you look at the elderly and ask...what do they give to society, keeping them alive is inconvenient.....and convenience is the standard, not the life itself....

So you think making all abortion the crime of murder is necessary to keep us from murdering old people?

lol

To keep us from murdering people of all ages......value the smallest human and you will tend to value all humans as a society.

Normal people don't think like that, sorry.

Define normal.....those who value babies, or those who believe it is right to kill them for convenience....?

Normal Americans are the ones who do not believe that executing women for having abortions is necessary to keep us from legalizing the killing of the elderly.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

 

[hazlnut]

This is a video I came upon this afternoon. It makes points I really hadn't considered before about the morality of abortion. I typed up the transcript for those who prefer not to watch the video, or have internet connections that cannot support streaming video content, or are just too plain dishonest to watch the video at all and throw random liberal talking points into the mix.

For those who will neither read nor watch the video, there is a reason why you are on my ignore list. For the rest of you, enjoy.





---Begin transcript---

Lets talk about one of the most emotionally charged subjects there is: Abortion--but in an unemotional way. Also, let's not touch on the question that most preoccupies discussion of the subject, whether abortion should be legal or illegal. The only question here is the moral one. Is ending the life of a human fetus moral?

Let's begin with this question:

Does the human fetus have any value and any rights?

Now, it's a scientific fact that a human fetus is human life. Those who argue that the human fetus has no rights, say that a fetus is not a person. But even if you believe that, it doesn't mean the fetus has no intrinsic value or no rights.

There are many living beings that are not persons that have both value and rights; dogs and other animals for example.

And that's moral argument #1:

A living being doesn't have to be a person in order to have intrinsic moral value and rights.

---Pause for effect---

When challenged with this argument, people usually change the subject to the rights of the mother. Meaning the rights of the mother to end her fetus's life:

1. under any circumstance
2. for any reason and;
3. at any time in her pregnancy

Is that moral?

It is, only if we believe the human fetus has no intrinsic worth. But in most cases, nearly everyone believes that the human fetus has essentially infinite worth, and an almost absolute right to live when a pregnant woman wants to give birth, then society and its laws regard the fetus as so valuable, that if someone were to kill that fetus, that person could be prosecuted for homicide. Only if a pregnant woman doesn't want to give birth do many people regard the fetus as worthless.

Now, does that make sense?

It doesn't seem to. Either a human fetus has worth, or it doesn't!

And this is moral argument #2:

On what moral grounds does the mother alone decide the fetus's worth?

---Pause for effect---

We certainly don't do that in regards to a newborn child, it is society, not the mother or the father that determines if the newborn child has worth and a right to live.

So, why should that be any different before the human being is born?

Why does one person, a mother, get to determine whether that being has any any right to live?

People respond by saying that a woman has the right to control her body. Now that is entirely correct! The problem here, however, is the fetus is not her body, it is in her body. It is a separate body.

And that is moral argument #3:

No one asks a pregnant woman "how's your body?" when asking about the fetus, people ask, "how's the baby?"

---Pause for effect---

Moral argument #4:

Virtually eveyone agrees the moment the baby comes out of the womb, killing the baby is murder.

But deliberately killing it a few months before birth is considered no more morally problematic than extracting a tooth!

How does that make sense?

---Pause for effect---

And finally, moral argument #5:

Aren't there instances in which just about everyone, even among those who are pro-choice, would acknowledge that an abortion might not be moral?

For example:

Would it be moral to abort a female fetus solely because the mother prefers boys to girls, as has happened millions of times in China and elsewhere?

And one more example:

Let's say science develops a method of determining whether a child in the womb is gay or straight. Would it be moral to kill a gay fetus because the mother didn't want a gay child?

---Pause for effect---

People may offer practical reasons not to criminalize all abortions. People may differ about when personhood begins and about the morality of abortion after rape or incest, but with regard to the vast majority of abortions-- those of healthy women aborting a healthy fetus-- let's be clear, most of these abortions just aren't moral.

Good societies survive people doing immoral things, but a good society cannot survive if it calls immoral things moral.

---End transcript---

When challenged with this argument, people usually change the subject to the rights of the mother. Meaning the rights of the mother to end her fetus's life:

1. under any circumstance
2. for any reason and;
3. at any time in her pregnancy

Who are these people?

It's not just about the rights of the mother - it's about often about quality of life as it is with the elderly or patients on life support.


A baby born with severe handicaps might not have any quality of life. I'm talking severe enough that the baby only experiences pain and agony then dies within weeks or months.

 

[2aguy]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

 

[2aguy]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

The Authority......God....and his Commandments..."Thou shalt do no murder....."

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

If the Catholic Church can't make your rules, why can you make mine?

 

[2aguy]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

If the Catholic Church can't make your rules, why can you make mine?

I'm not, God did......

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

The Authority......God....and his Commandments..."Thou shalt do no murder....."

God cannot even be demonstrated to exist. You wish impose a specific set of moral rules on people based on an imaginary being?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

If the Catholic Church can't make your rules, why can you make mine?

I'm not, God did......

Didn't God make the rules for Catholics?

 

[2aguy]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

The Authority......God....and his Commandments..."Thou shalt do no murder....."

God cannot even be demonstrated to exist. You wish impose a specific set of moral rules on people based on an imaginary being?

No. I believe that a baby is a human, and that killing an innocent human for convenience is wrong. God also says that.

 

[2aguy]

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

If the Catholic Church can't make your rules, why can you make mine?

I'm not, God did......

Didn't God make the rules for Catholics?

He made the rules for all people. He didn't mention birth control. He set up the Laws of Noah, and the 10 Commandments......I think it would be pretty hard to do wrong by following those....

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

If the Catholic Church can't make your rules, why can you make mine?

I'm not, God did......

To the best of our knowledge, God is an imaginary supernatural being created by Men. All writings claiming to be the word of God are writings by Men.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Catholic Church says (most) birth control is immoral.

Our society as a whole overwhelmingly considers it moral.

Does that mean our society is doomed for having made the immoral moral, as is stated in the OP?

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

The Authority......God....and his Commandments..."Thou shalt do no murder....."

God cannot even be demonstrated to exist. You wish impose a specific set of moral rules on people based on an imaginary being?

No. I believe that a baby is a human, and that killing an innocent human for convenience is wrong. God also says that.

God, actually, says no such thing. Men have told us what God has said, which is hearsay.

 

[2aguy]

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

If the Catholic Church can't make your rules, why can you make mine?

I'm not, God did......

To the best of our knowledge, God is an imaginary supernatural being created by Men. All writings claiming to be the word of God are writings by Men.

And so.....abortion is wrong wether God exists or not. Do you think killing babies for convenience is the sign of an advanced culture?

 

[2aguy]

Birth control before conception is not moral or immoral, the catholic church has their teachings and you don't have to follow them even if you are a catholic......it is hard not to be impacted by abortion if you are the baby who is going to be aborted. devaluing human life because it is inconvenient will have long term consequences.....

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

The Authority......God....and his Commandments..."Thou shalt do no murder....."

God cannot even be demonstrated to exist. You wish impose a specific set of moral rules on people based on an imaginary being?

No. I believe that a baby is a human, and that killing an innocent human for convenience is wrong. God also says that.

God, actually, says no such thing. Men have told us what God has said, which is hearsay.

And abortion is wrong wether you believe in God or not....if you think abortion can be done, you can also murder anyone you want...since in your mind there is no Eternal Judge of our actions...the only reason not to murder people is those damn religious people.....who think it is wrong....

 

[NYcarbineer]

If the Catholic Church can't tell you what is moral or immoral about birth control, by what authority do you presume to tell me that abortion is immoral?

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

If the Catholic Church can't make your rules, why can you make mine?

I'm not, God did......

To the best of our knowledge, God is an imaginary supernatural being created by Men. All writings claiming to be the word of God are writings by Men.

And so.....abortion is wrong wether God exists or not. Do you think killing babies for convenience is the sign of an advanced culture?

I think providing a woman a reasonable window of opportunity to choose to terminate an unintended pregnancy is the sign of an advanced culture.

 

[2aguy]

Murdering an innocent is immoral.....no matter how you try to justify it.....

If the Catholic Church can't make your rules, why can you make mine?

I'm not, God did......

To the best of our knowledge, God is an imaginary supernatural being created by Men. All writings claiming to be the word of God are writings by Men.

And so.....abortion is wrong wether God exists or not. Do you think killing babies for convenience is the sign of an advanced culture?

I think providing a woman a reasonable window of opportunity to choose to terminate an unintended pregnancy is the sign of an advanced culture.

As long as the human is small enough you can murder it....

If there is no God...as you say...why is murder wrong at any time?