The Problem with Socialism

[Jack4jill]

In the nineteenth century the factory owners built the roads to their factories.

Classic conservatism. Let's go back to the 19th century.

Yeah, it was such a paradise then.

Of course most here would already have died but great times.

We want the government we had in the 19th Century. That isn't synonymous with abandoning all scientific and technical progress that has occurred since then. But spouting cheap slogans is so much easier than posting truth.

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

 

[Fenton Lum]

That's fine and should be Voluntary. not FORCED on the people by Masters in the Government.

Of course, and Christianity is not being forced on people in the U.S. by the government.
Sharing is imposed by the person on whom Christianity is based. Yet, such a large amount of the population claims to be Christian that if it were true, government run public assistance would not be necessary. Unfortunately, assistance is necessary. There is no present system in place to do that except, lamentably, through government.

Liberals claim it's necessary, but they never offer any proof. Of course, you need a lot more when the government seduces teenage girls into getting pregnant by offering to pay all their bills when they do.

Tell the conservatives in this thread how you would fund the nation's military,

just to remind them who they're talking to.

They going to go door to door selling cookies, like the Girl Scouts. Taxes are optional for all in his world.

I envisage telethons that ask people to make an automatic monthly contribution to the national defense. When people are allowed to keep 100% of their income, a 3% contribution won't be the slightest burden.

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha .......

 

[Jack4jill]

Liberals claim it's necessary, but they never offer any proof. Of course, you need a lot more when the government seduces teenage girls into getting pregnant by offering to pay all their bills when they do.

Tell the conservatives in this thread how you would fund the nation's military,

just to remind them who they're talking to.

They going to go door to door selling cookies, like the Girl Scouts. Taxes are optional for all in his world.

I envisage telethons that ask people to make an automatic monthly contribution to the national defense. When people are allowed to keep 100% of their income, a 3% contribution won't be the slightest burden.

And the military will soon discover what everyone else knows, the checks don't come in.

Taxes solve the Free Rider problem, like the ACA.

That may be the case, but other solutions have been proposed.

Your get sick and die proposal has already been tried, and found wanting.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I'm doing well, thanks for the concern; I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what you advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

Quote where I made those points or be proven as a lying asshole. I don't need to misrepresent others' views. YOU DO!

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on gettng by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do is act as if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

So you think the country has moved to the right. So you're a liar, an unclever one and that, and incredibly stupid. We have gay marriage, the government leaning on private citizens to bake cakes against their will, bigger government, more regulations, industries like coal being dumped on, mandated by central government health insurance and on and on.

You live in an alternative universe and can only support it with lies and smears.

Then apparently all your voting republican/"conservative" didn't amount to much did it, and your "two" party system is a ruse. I can't help anyone who still actually believes that if you can only vote enough members of either party in the mess will right itself. But you keep on working on that if you think it will help.

So what's your solution?

You would have a total fucking meltdown shoog. My personal goal is to be as unlike people like you on "both" sides as I can be, and then still persist in becoming even further away.

 

[Jack4jill]

Let more socialism or less socialism be up to the will of the People. That is how democracy is supposed to work.

That's what's wrong with democracy. My rights shouldn't be up to a majority vote, and the right to own property is one of them.

Your rights aren't up for a vote. Neither are the rights of those you say are less worthy than you, like gay people and transgender kids.

My rights are up for a vote every day. ACA was just one vast assault on my rights, and Congress voted on that.

Your right to get sick and force us to pay for your sick ass isn't a right.

You can get coverage by society, or coverage by a plan you choose. No coverage is not an option, that comes out of my pocket and you are already on my tab.

No coverage is an option. It may mean no treatment, but that's your decision.

Yeah, that's not an option because decent people don't just let others die outside the ER door because they lacked insurance.

We end up with the bill. Thanks, no thanks.

 

[bripat9643]

Classic conservatism. Let's go back to the 19th century.

Yeah, it was such a paradise then.

Of course most here would already have died but great times.

We want the government we had in the 19th Century. That isn't synonymous with abandoning all scientific and technical progress that has occurred since then. But spouting cheap slogans is so much easier than posting truth.

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

 

[Fenton Lum]

That's what's wrong with democracy. My rights shouldn't be up to a majority vote, and the right to own property is one of them.

Your rights aren't up for a vote. Neither are the rights of those you say are less worthy than you, like gay people and transgender kids.

My rights are up for a vote every day. ACA was just one vast assault on my rights, and Congress voted on that.

Your right to get sick and force us to pay for your sick ass isn't a right.

You can get coverage by society, or coverage by a plan you choose. No coverage is not an option, that comes out of my pocket and you are already on my tab.

No coverage is an option. It may mean no treatment, but that's your decision.

Yeah, that's not an option because decent people don't just let others die outside the ER door because they lacked insurance.

We end up with the bill. Thanks, no thanks.

Yeah well, this is a pretty unhealthy society when it comes to decency.

 

[bripat9643]

I'm doing well, thanks for the concern; I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what you advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

Quote where I made those points or be proven as a lying asshole. I don't need to misrepresent others' views. YOU DO!

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on gettng by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do is act as if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

So you think the country has moved to the right. So you're a liar, an unclever one and that, and incredibly stupid. We have gay marriage, the government leaning on private citizens to bake cakes against their will, bigger government, more regulations, industries like coal being dumped on, mandated by central government health insurance and on and on.

You live in an alternative universe and can only support it with lies and smears.

Then apparently all your voting republican/"conservative" didn't amount to much did it, and your "two" party system is a ruse. I can't help anyone who still actually believes that if you can only vote enough members of either party in the mess will right itself. But you keep on working on that if you think it will help.

So what's your solution?

You would have a total fucking meltdown shoog. My personal goal is to be as unlike people like you on "both" sides as I can be, and then still persist in becoming even further away.

So what's your solution?

 

[Fenton Lum]

Yeah, it was such a paradise then.

Of course most here would already have died but great times.

We want the government we had in the 19th Century. That isn't synonymous with abandoning all scientific and technical progress that has occurred since then. But spouting cheap slogans is so much easier than posting truth.

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

You vote and elect representatives, so you're the govt if you really believe in the american political system. Make a decision.

 

[Jack4jill]

Yeah, it was such a paradise then.

Of course most here would already have died but great times.

We want the government we had in the 19th Century. That isn't synonymous with abandoning all scientific and technical progress that has occurred since then. But spouting cheap slogans is so much easier than posting truth.

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

It means what I said, dummy.

 

[bripat9643]

That's what's wrong with democracy. My rights shouldn't be up to a majority vote, and the right to own property is one of them.

Your rights aren't up for a vote. Neither are the rights of those you say are less worthy than you, like gay people and transgender kids.

My rights are up for a vote every day. ACA was just one vast assault on my rights, and Congress voted on that.

Your right to get sick and force us to pay for your sick ass isn't a right.

You can get coverage by society, or coverage by a plan you choose. No coverage is not an option, that comes out of my pocket and you are already on my tab.

No coverage is an option. It may mean no treatment, but that's your decision.

Yeah, that's not an option because decent people don't just let others die outside the ER door because they lacked insurance.

We end up with the bill. Thanks, no thanks.

That's up to the "decent people." If you want to pay the bill, then do it. If you don't want to pay the bill, then don't. No one has the right to force it on me. That's what the ACA does: force me to pay the bill.

 

[bripat9643]

We want the government we had in the 19th Century. That isn't synonymous with abandoning all scientific and technical progress that has occurred since then. But spouting cheap slogans is so much easier than posting truth.

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

You vote and elect representatives, so you're the govt if you really believe in the american political system. Make a decision.

Wrong. I'm not the government. I would vote against 95% of what's in place if I was the government.

 

[bripat9643]

We want the government we had in the 19th Century. That isn't synonymous with abandoning all scientific and technical progress that has occurred since then. But spouting cheap slogans is so much easier than posting truth.

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

It means what I said, dummy.

It doesn't mean jack shit to normal intelligent people.

 

[Jack4jill]

Your rights aren't up for a vote. Neither are the rights of those you say are less worthy than you, like gay people and transgender kids.

My rights are up for a vote every day. ACA was just one vast assault on my rights, and Congress voted on that.

Your right to get sick and force us to pay for your sick ass isn't a right.

You can get coverage by society, or coverage by a plan you choose. No coverage is not an option, that comes out of my pocket and you are already on my tab.

No coverage is an option. It may mean no treatment, but that's your decision.

Yeah, that's not an option because decent people don't just let others die outside the ER door because they lacked insurance.

We end up with the bill. Thanks, no thanks.

That's up to the "decent people." If you want to pay the bill, then do it. If you don't want to pay the bill, then don't. No one has the right to force it on me. That's what the ACA does: force me to pay the bill.

Don't have the right? We just did.

You could of course go live in a country that "protects" your rights? Need boxes?

 

[Fenton Lum]

I'm doing well, thanks for the concern; I’m referring more to the cannibalization of American society at large. Until we evolve away from what you advocate we will continue to borrow to maintain a level of empire and consumption this society can no longer afford, wages will continue to fall for the workers the “job creators” exploit, poverty will continue to spread, permanent war of empire will continue unabated, privatized prison system mass incarceration will continue and spread in our post industrial society, human beings will continue to be commoditized regardless of “which” political party wins, and the public will continue to get 90% of what they see and hear (and believe in when it comes to people like you) from a half dozen corporations spewing a false perceptual reality while judicial fiat continues to be leveraged to strip citizens of basic constitutional rights. The system will do to us whatever we allow and all we would have to do is stop participating and cooperating.

Quote where I made those points or be proven as a lying asshole. I don't need to misrepresent others' views. YOU DO!

The more the unsubstantial people get squeezed, the more they have to focus on gettng by the daily grind. The republican party went batshit crazy over my lifetime and the democratic party morphed into the republican party I grew up with and a lot of that happened in my opinion during the previous Clinton's administration. All the democratic party has to do is act as if they're a bit "left" of the republican party, which brings us back to the lesser of the two evils, and that's for the most part on social issues. It's all pretty bipartisan when it comes to corporate societal wealth extraction.

So you think the country has moved to the right. So you're a liar, an unclever one and that, and incredibly stupid. We have gay marriage, the government leaning on private citizens to bake cakes against their will, bigger government, more regulations, industries like coal being dumped on, mandated by central government health insurance and on and on.

You live in an alternative universe and can only support it with lies and smears.

Then apparently all your voting republican/"conservative" didn't amount to much did it, and your "two" party system is a ruse. I can't help anyone who still actually believes that if you can only vote enough members of either party in the mess will right itself. But you keep on working on that if you think it will help.

So what's your solution?

You would have a total fucking meltdown shoog. My personal goal is to be as unlike people like you on "both" sides as I can be, and then still persist in becoming even further away.

So what's your solution?

There are lots of folk working on this. I don't think it would prove to be your cup of tea, but if you're sincere, you'll dig into it and decide if you wish to get involved. Horses to water, same phenomenon. Hint, your 6 multinational corporate controlled media will not serve it up to you.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Yeah, it was such a paradise then.

Of course most here would already have died but great times.

We want the government we had in the 19th Century. That isn't synonymous with abandoning all scientific and technical progress that has occurred since then. But spouting cheap slogans is so much easier than posting truth.

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

Pitcairn Island has no government, per se. You can do whatever you please as long as you do not harm anyone. It is the paradise you seem to want, so please for your sake and sanity (it there is any sanity to save) catch the next boat out.

 

[Jack4jill]

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

It means what I said, dummy.

It doesn't mean jack shit to normal intelligent people.

Dumbfuck, how did the telephone and electrical anything make it into American homes? The tooth fairy?

 

[bripat9643]

Quote where I made those points or be proven as a lying asshole. I don't need to misrepresent others' views. YOU DO!


So you think the country has moved to the right. So you're a liar, an unclever one and that, and incredibly stupid. We have gay marriage, the government leaning on private citizens to bake cakes against their will, bigger government, more regulations, industries like coal being dumped on, mandated by central government health insurance and on and on.

You live in an alternative universe and can only support it with lies and smears.

Then apparently all your voting republican/"conservative" didn't amount to much did it, and your "two" party system is a ruse. I can't help anyone who still actually believes that if you can only vote enough members of either party in the mess will right itself. But you keep on working on that if you think it will help.

So what's your solution?

You would have a total fucking meltdown shoog. My personal goal is to be as unlike people like you on "both" sides as I can be, and then still persist in becoming even further away.

So what's your solution?

There are lots of folk working on this. I don't think it would prove to be your cup of tea, but if you're sincere, you'll dig into it and decide if you wish to get involved. Horses to water, same phenomenon. Hint, your 6 multinational corporate controlled media will not serve it up to you.

In other words, you have no solution.

Thanks for playing.

Telling me to "dig into it" is a weasel, not an answer.

 

[bripat9643]

We want the government we had in the 19th Century. That isn't synonymous with abandoning all scientific and technical progress that has occurred since then. But spouting cheap slogans is so much easier than posting truth.

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

Pitcairn Island has no government, per se. You can do whatever you please as long as you do not harm anyone. It is the paradise you seem to want, so please for your sake and sanity (it there is any sanity to save) catch the next boat out.

Cuba has your idea of the perfect government, so why don't you emigrate your ugly ass to Cuba?

 

[Fenton Lum]

You are on record wanting NO mandatory taxation.

The word "mandatory" is redundant when put before the word "taxation."

So how does getting rid of taxation make the telephone and the light bulb disappear?

The telephone and the electrical grid for the light bulbs? Both things we paid up or cut deals for. Without the government people would still be going to bed when it got dark.

What does "paid up or cut deals for" mean? The government played no part in the invention of the light bulb or the initial construction of the electrical grid. Government normally gets involved only after a technology has proven itself and is expanding rapidly. Government always wants to horn in on the action.

You vote and elect representatives, so you're the govt if you really believe in the american political system. Make a decision.

Wrong. I'm not the government. I would vote against 95% of what's in place if I was the government.

Further suggestion that the american political system does not answer to "the people", but rather concentrated wealth and corporate power - regardless of the party and partisanshit.