The Propaganda Trash that Forum Outcasts wanted you to swallow . Which many of you did.

[GLASNOST]

Israel's borders have never been set. Funny thing. The Torah is very clear on the crime of moving border stones.

Zionism needs to be dismantled and the Palestinians ought to be allowed to go back home to their land. I am willing to bet that the Palestinians will take pity on "good" Jews and send the "bad" ones back to NY.

 

[Shusha]

No State can create, international recognized border

I know of two ways that an international border between two States can be created. Neither of them is "the international community says so".

The Egypt/Jordan and Israels border agreements were however recognized by the UN

The peace treaties themselves recognize the borders. It's a contract between States. The UN is irrelevant with respect to treaties between States. It's simple contract law. Neither peace treaty delineates the international boundaries as the 1949 ADL. And even if they did, these are agreements between Israel and Jordan and Israel and Egypt. All settled and dissolved, decades ago. Irrelevant to any future agreement with a future Palestinian State.

And the UN does not recognize the illegal Jewish settlements nor Israels infringements onto the Green Line in regards to the West-bank

The UN does not create boundaries between States. This is outside the UN's powers. Still waiting for you to come up with a legal defense for how the 1949 ADL (which was explicitly written in the agreements NOT to be a legal border) became a "border". All you keep repeating is "the UN said so".

And, ffs, let's talk about that map you post which shows the 1949 ADL, but is ACTUALLY about the legally binding agreement between Israel and the recognized representative of the Palestinian Arabs. And that agreement says that the final boundaries will be negotiated as part of a settlement.

 

[Shusha]

Israel's borders have never been set. Funny thing.

Israel's borders were established through customary international law and confirmed in treaties.

Oh wait, apparently treaties are "fake news".

 

[Kruska]

And ... if you really want to talk about 242, let's talk about why 242 specifically called for "secure and recognized boundaries" and NOT the 1949 ADL. Might it be that the 1949 ADL was not an international border between the States in the area? Might it be that the resolution called for "respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity, and political independence of every State in the area"? (That means Israel, too, you know. No one ever wants to talk about that.)

I couldn't care less about the Jordan/Egypt and Israeli border agreements - since they are also TOTALLY irrelevant in regards to the Green Line (internationally recognized) defining the West-bank and Gaza.

It was you - who came up with the totally ridiculous claim - that the entire British mandated territory of Palestine - became Israel in 1948/9
Since everyone - besides total morons - knows, that this was wasn't the case at all, due to Egypt and Jordan claiming and occupying Gaza and the West-bank for themselves.

Then a mentally challenged compatriot of yours @Totalparrot, started to bring in the topic of the Israel/Jordan border - not me.

And since you don't know anything - aside from spewing irrelevant Zionist views and propaganda - you bought into this unrelated topic.

 

[Kruska]

I know of two ways that an international border between two States can be created. Neither of them is "the international community says so".

There is no such thing as an "international" border if not recognized by the UN - you dumb-bud.

And in any conflict so far, the UN was and is the major driving force - that helps to establish "international borders" that are subjected to disputes amongst belligerents.

 

[Shusha]

It was you - who came up with the totally ridiculous claim - that the entire British mandated territory of Palestine - became Israel in 1948/9

Yes, that is how it works in international law. The successor State inherits the previous boundaries. Was there another successor State? What source of international law created the boundary between the two successor States in 1948?

Since everyone - besides total morons - knows, that this was wasn't the case at all, due to Egypt and Jordan claiming and occupying Gaza and the West-bank for themselves.

So, you are arguing that land that is not under your sovereignty that you conquer in a war of aggression is legal?! Great!

 

[Hector12]

That's the problem in a nutshell.

That's what the European Zionists believed in 1920.

So why should we prefer Palestine to Israel? I love Israel and feel no concern for the Palestinians at all. The Israelis are people like me. The Palestinians are not.

 

[Hector12]

There is no such thing as an "international" border if not recognized by the UN - you dumb-bud.

And in any conflict so far, the UN was and is the major driving force - that helps to establish "international borders" that are subjected to disputes amongst belligerents.

The UN had no ability to defend Israel from Arab aggression in 1967. It has no right to tell Israel what to do now. The so called "Illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied territories" are legal as far as the laws of Israel and the Law of Moses are concerned. That is all that matters. The Palestinians do not matter. They are a vanquished people.

 

[Shusha]

There is no such thing as an "international" border if not recognized by the UN - you dumb-bud.

And in any conflict so far, the UN was and is the major driving force - that helps to establish "international borders" that are subjected to disputes amongst belligerents.

I'm not arguing that the UN can't "help establish" international borders, mostly through negotiating agreements and treaties between Parties, which creates a legally binding agreement. The UN can not impose borders on States.

Also, I'd love to see documentation from you about how the UN "recognized" the conclusion of the Whisky War and that, therefore, we know that the conflict is resolved.

 

[Hector12]

You haven't been right yet = wrong.

Says you.

 

[Kruska]

Israel's borders were established through customary international law and confirmed in treaties.

Only in regards to existing nations, via the Green Line - prior to the UN acknowledging a Palestinian State.
The territory of the West-bank and Gaza is defined by the international recognized Green Line - until today.

Only in regards to Egypt's and Jordan's borders with Israel, has the Green Line been replaced via agreed borders between the belligerent nations. - and these "agreed borders" are basically nothing else, but the former Green Line.

 

[Kruska]

Yes, that is how it works in international law.

You really are stupid.

The UN Security Council,
Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every state in the area can live in security.

The successor State inherits the previous boundaries.

And where does it state, that Israel is the successor State, of the entire former British mandate territory of Palestine? - only in your wet dreams.

 

[GLASNOST]

The UN does not create boundaries between States. This is outside the UN's powers.

So, if the Zionists can roll into Palestine and take what they want (with or without the aid of the United Snakes) then they can hoist the Israeli flag over it and call it their own. By the same token, Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese, and Egyptians can storm the gates of Israel (with or without the aid of Iran, Russia, Turkey, China, or Saudi Arabia) and divvy up the whole of Israel and do business with one another without the Jew shyster middlemen ..... plus eliminate one chair & name-plate at the UN. Easy peasy.

 

[Grau]

That is an obscure source. It means nothing.

In addition to the fact that an Israeli pilot confessed that the attack on the USS Liberty was deliberate, the Israeli used unmarked French Mirage planes for the initial attacks.

Did they "forget" to mark their planes?

Later, the cowardly IDFers strafed wounded Americans in lowered life rafts(1), (2) but facts are meaningless to traitorous Israeli Firsters who support a treacherous foreign government over fellow Americans.




(1). "The Forgotten Sneak Attack"
https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/09/the-forgotten-sneak-attack/

EXCERPT "The life raft taken by the Israeli torpedo boat and the wheel of the torpedo boat that succeeded in hitting Liberty are on display at Israel’s National Maritime Museum in Haifa. In Israel, those who participated in the attack are celebrated as national heroes."CONTINUED



(2). "Commonly Asked Questions about the USS Liberty"
Prepared by the Independent Commission of Inquiry

Commonly Asked Questions about the USS Liberty

If Americans Knew is dedicated to providing Americans with everything they need to know about Israel and Palestine.

ifamericaknew.org

EXCERPT "After the attack was thought to have ended, three life rafts were lowered into the water to rescue the most seriously wounded. The Israeli torpedo boats returned and machine-gunned these life rafts at close range."CONTINUED

 

[GLASNOST]

You haven't been right yet = wrong.

Says you.

Says me ... and since my credibility is far better than yours that leaves you outnumbered.

 

[Hector12]

In addition to the fact that an Israeli pilot confessed that the attack on the USS Liberty was deliberate, the Israeli used unmarked French Mirage planes for the initial attacks.

What motive would the Israelis have to attack a naval vessel of the only country that was helping them defend themselves from an Arab attempt to annihilate them?

 

[Hector12]

You really are stupid.

The UN Security Council,
Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every state in the area can live in security.

The UN did not stop an Arab effort to destroy Israel in 1967.

 

[GLASNOST]

In addition to the fact that an Israeli pilot confessed that the attack on the USS Liberty was deliberate,

***

the Israeli used unmarked French Mirage planes for the initial attacks.

***

Did they "forget" to mark their planes?

Later, the cowardly IDFers strafed wounded Americans in lowered life rafts

***

 

[Shusha]

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every state in the area can live in security

Exactly. So, back in 1948 when Jordan and Egypt (and others) began a war of aggression into territory that was OUTSIDE their sovereign borders, they can't acquire it, right? It's not theirs, right? They have no right to it, right? They can't keep it, right?

Then there are Armistice Agreements between the belligerent States and Israel. Then peace treaties which delineate the international boundaries between the belligerent States and Israel.

None of any of this is Israel claiming territory which belongs to another State, nor claiming territory outside her boundaries. Israel did not cross an international boundary and start a war of aggression with Jordan or Egypt. Israel did not claim any territory that was within the boundaries of Jordan and Egypt's sovereignty (Sinai - returned under a peace agreement, as it should have been). None of this requires Israel to contain itself within some sort of unexplained boundary

So now, my question to you is: How, exactly, does an Armistice Agreement made following a war of aggression committed by belligerent States who have no rights to the territory "create" an international border between Israel and a non-existent State? What legal grounds are there for a RESOLVED conflict between the State of Israel and the States of Jordan and Egypt to impose a legal obligation on Israel to a non-existent third party sometime in the future?

 

[Kruska]

The UN can not impose borders on States.

Again how stupid are you?

The UN Mandate "imposed" the e.g. Kosovo border onto "resisting Serbia" - via KFOR

A disputed border that was mediated between the Governments of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the Republic of Serbia”, and the UN - with Serbia not willing to adhere to the previous agreements and to acknowledge Kosovo's borders, since it beholds territories with a majority of Serb population.

This agreement, in which KFOR is first named, arranges for the phased withdrawal of Yugoslav and Serbian forces from Kosovo with the synchronized entry of KFOR. It authorized KFOR to take whatever action necessary to establish security within Kosovo in order to carry out its mission. It puts in the hands of the KFOR commander the power to consent to the entry of Serbian forces into Kosovo.

As such Serbia is not in recognition of Kosovo's self-declared borders - but the UN "imposes" that border onto Serbia via KFOR.

And if a UN mandate would be granted towards Palestine - UN troops will impose the Palestinian border "Green Line" onto Israel.