The realities of Labor Unions

[JFK_USA]

These are the facts about labor unions.

Labor Unions are unconstitutional.
It violates the Business owner's right to be safe and secure in his papers and effects regarding his business.

Labor unions are NOT professional associations, professional associations and labor unions are different, in that a labor union seeks to create a monopoly of labor available to the employer, a professional association boosts the reputability of the worker through setting codes and standards, and they offer information about the worker's profession, and offer resources, etc etc..

Labor Unions are often ran by criminals who engage in extortion, loan sharking, aiding and abetting, obstruction of justice, and fraud.


In the long run, labor unions cause poverty, by putting businesses out of business through bankruptcy.

The economic benefits are relatively short term, and even during their time as being an economic benefit, they create economic inequality in favor of the union workers, as opposed to non union workers, and they cause price increases further tipping the scales in favor of Union workers.

This pay increase is due to the fact that artificial labor monopolies have the exact same consequences as any other monopoly, amongst those are price hikes, by the demand of the monopoly.

Union workers create an artificial monopoly, which is STILL a monopoly, and monopolies have never worked for the consumer.
The consumer of labor is the employer and the customers or clients.

While monopolies are not unconstitutional for the consumer, they are against any standard that seeks to create reputability in business, and they ARE unconstitutional for the employer, because it violates the employers right to be secure in his papers and effects regarding his business.

Because the labor monopoly holds the employer hostage to the labor monopoly, it is very hard, if not impossible to fire the workers, or to take disciplinary action against the said worker or workers.

This means that the union worker can behave nearly any way that he so chooses and get away with it.
This inevitably turns the union workers into unruly scum with no discipline whatsoever.

Late check ins, early clock outs, rude and insulting behavior, and piss poor performance, frequent absences from work, dress that is only "moderately appropriate" and certainly not serious for the job, and excuse after excuse for it.

And even off the job... because the union workers have no discipline, their bad habits might roll over into their life away from work, and affect their behavior at home, and in public.

Labor Unions also cause discrimination, by making it mandatory to join the union.


So I would make it illegal under the current laws against extortion, and the Sherman anti trust laws against monopolies, to have labor unions.

You should check this out sometime:

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

You don't have the right to extort business owners and employers, or hold business owners and employers hostage to you and/or your group.
You also don't have the right to require applicants to join your union...

And you also don't have the right to keep your job, after failing to do your job and calling a "strike".

It's not extortion to negotiate a better deal for you and your other workers.

And the First Amendment guarantees freedom of association so you're wrong on it being unconstitutional.

No, unions are not run as criminal organizations today so nice try.

Why shouldn't workers who can be in a position of leverage to negotiate a better deal for themselves instead of just taking it. If a group of workers has a particular skill set that makes them valuable to an employer, why is it SO HORRIBLE that they negotiate a good wage for themselves while the company profits on their work?

 

[BULLDOG]

GM collapsed because of their own bad management, not from paying the employees what they had earned. They were bailed out because allowing them to fail would have crashed our economy more than right wing economics already had. If it was just a matter of the company failing without the greater effect on the entire country, I would have been against it too.

I didn't say the employees didn't get payed. They held GM's feet to the fire and they caved and made promises they couldn't keep. So both were wrong and they needed to let the marketplace decide who the winners and losers are, not government and crony capitalism.

Bullshit. GM's management decided it was a good idea to build crappy cars that nobody wanted, and you want to blame the workers? What a perfectly republican way of looking at things.

What a liberal way to look at it. It's always somebody else's fault. If they were making crappy cars why were the workers being payed so much? Does not compute.

I guess you need to talk to their management about that. They are the ones that made the decision.to build crappy cars.

So we take it you never worked in a manufacturing plant before child,? And think employees have no input and are not responsible for quality ?

Wow....If you can actually call me child, you must be at least 100. So now you're blaming the workers for crappy car designs and marketing choices. I suppose the company wasn't responsible for their own QC either.

 

[Wyatt earp]

What a pussy then it must have sucked to have been a lowly janitor or something after 40 years, even my operators have input to shut a machine down if they are making crap parts and I live in a RED STATE

 

[BULLDOG]

What a pussy then it must have sucked to have been a lowly janitor or something after 40 years, even my operators have input to shut a machine down if they are making crap parts and I live in a RED STATE

That's assuming something was going differently than designed. You think the workers should have gone on strike to demand the company design better cars? Exactly where is the button to push that would have shut down their dumb marketing plans? You need to try harder than that, cause so far your posts are just dumb and funny.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Thinking about it even I will shut the bitch down if I see they are making crap parts and lock it out and I am just a maintenance man . I will call it a safety hazard

 

[BULLDOG]

Thinking about it even I will shut the bitch down if I see they are making crap parts and lock it out and I am just a maintenance man . I will call it a safety hazard

When did line workers become responsible for bad designs? Why don't you go ahead and shut things down and then tell them they need to just go back to the drawing board? Come back and tell me how it works out for you.

 

[Andylusion]

As a business owner that has in the past owned a Union shop, I found the Union to be a great partner who provided well trained workers. Of course I didn't try to fuck my workers out of their pay or benefits like so many of the Union haters.

These are the facts about labor unions.

Labor Unions are unconstitutional.
It violates the Business owner's right to be safe and secure in his papers and effects regarding his business.

Labor unions are NOT professional associations, professional associations and labor unions are different, in that a labor union seeks to create a monopoly of labor available to the employer, a professional association boosts the reputability of the worker through setting codes and standards, and they offer information about the worker's profession, and offer resources, etc etc..

Labor Unions are often ran by criminals who engage in extortion, loan sharking, aiding and abetting, obstruction of justice, and fraud.


In the long run, labor unions cause poverty, by putting businesses out of business through bankruptcy.

The economic benefits are relatively short term, and even during their time as being an economic benefit, they create economic inequality in favor of the union workers, as opposed to non union workers, and they cause price increases further tipping the scales in favor of Union workers.

This pay increase is due to the fact that artificial labor monopolies have the exact same consequences as any other monopoly, amongst those are price hikes, by the demand of the monopoly.

Union workers create an artificial monopoly, which is STILL a monopoly, and monopolies have never worked for the consumer.
The consumer of labor is the employer and the customers or clients.

While monopolies are not unconstitutional for the consumer, they are against any standard that seeks to create reputability in business, and they ARE unconstitutional for the employer, because it violates the employers right to be secure in his papers and effects regarding his business.

Because the labor monopoly holds the employer hostage to the labor monopoly, it is very hard, if not impossible to fire the workers, or to take disciplinary action against the said worker or workers.

This means that the union worker can behave nearly any way that he so chooses and get away with it.
This inevitably turns the union workers into unruly scum with no discipline whatsoever.

Late check ins, early clock outs, rude and insulting behavior, and piss poor performance, frequent absences from work, dress that is only "moderately appropriate" and certainly not serious for the job, and excuse after excuse for it.

And even off the job... because the union workers have no discipline, their bad habits might roll over into their life away from work, and affect their behavior at home, and in public.

Labor Unions also cause discrimination, by making it mandatory to join the union.


So I would make it illegal under the current laws against extortion, and the Sherman anti trust laws against monopolies, to have labor unions.

You should check this out sometime:

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

You don't have the right to extort business owners and employers, or hold business owners and employers hostage to you and/or your group.
You also don't have the right to require applicants to join your union...

And you also don't have the right to keep your job, after failing to do your job and calling a "strike".

It's not extortion to negotiate a better deal for you and your other workers.

And the First Amendment guarantees freedom of association so you're wrong on it being unconstitutional.

No, unions are not run as criminal organizations today so nice try.

Why shouldn't workers who can be in a position of leverage to negotiate a better deal for themselves instead of just taking it. If a group of workers has a particular skill set that makes them valuable to an employer, why is it SO HORRIBLE that they negotiate a good wage for themselves while the company profits on their work?

You can "associate" all you want. There is nothing constitutional about being able to walk off the job, and the employer can't fire you. Private property rights, mean just that. It's not your property. Sucking air, doesn't mean you can't be fired anymore.

Thankfully the free-market is pushing unions out of existence.

 

[BULLDOG]

As a business owner that has in the past owned a Union shop, I found the Union to be a great partner who provided well trained workers. Of course I didn't try to fuck my workers out of their pay or benefits like so many of the Union haters.

These are the facts about labor unions.

Labor Unions are unconstitutional.
It violates the Business owner's right to be safe and secure in his papers and effects regarding his business.

Labor unions are NOT professional associations, professional associations and labor unions are different, in that a labor union seeks to create a monopoly of labor available to the employer, a professional association boosts the reputability of the worker through setting codes and standards, and they offer information about the worker's profession, and offer resources, etc etc..

Labor Unions are often ran by criminals who engage in extortion, loan sharking, aiding and abetting, obstruction of justice, and fraud.


In the long run, labor unions cause poverty, by putting businesses out of business through bankruptcy.

The economic benefits are relatively short term, and even during their time as being an economic benefit, they create economic inequality in favor of the union workers, as opposed to non union workers, and they cause price increases further tipping the scales in favor of Union workers.

This pay increase is due to the fact that artificial labor monopolies have the exact same consequences as any other monopoly, amongst those are price hikes, by the demand of the monopoly.

Union workers create an artificial monopoly, which is STILL a monopoly, and monopolies have never worked for the consumer.
The consumer of labor is the employer and the customers or clients.

While monopolies are not unconstitutional for the consumer, they are against any standard that seeks to create reputability in business, and they ARE unconstitutional for the employer, because it violates the employers right to be secure in his papers and effects regarding his business.

Because the labor monopoly holds the employer hostage to the labor monopoly, it is very hard, if not impossible to fire the workers, or to take disciplinary action against the said worker or workers.

This means that the union worker can behave nearly any way that he so chooses and get away with it.
This inevitably turns the union workers into unruly scum with no discipline whatsoever.

Late check ins, early clock outs, rude and insulting behavior, and piss poor performance, frequent absences from work, dress that is only "moderately appropriate" and certainly not serious for the job, and excuse after excuse for it.

And even off the job... because the union workers have no discipline, their bad habits might roll over into their life away from work, and affect their behavior at home, and in public.

Labor Unions also cause discrimination, by making it mandatory to join the union.


So I would make it illegal under the current laws against extortion, and the Sherman anti trust laws against monopolies, to have labor unions.

You should check this out sometime:

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

You don't have the right to extort business owners and employers, or hold business owners and employers hostage to you and/or your group.
You also don't have the right to require applicants to join your union...

And you also don't have the right to keep your job, after failing to do your job and calling a "strike".

It's not extortion to negotiate a better deal for you and your other workers.

And the First Amendment guarantees freedom of association so you're wrong on it being unconstitutional.

No, unions are not run as criminal organizations today so nice try.

Why shouldn't workers who can be in a position of leverage to negotiate a better deal for themselves instead of just taking it. If a group of workers has a particular skill set that makes them valuable to an employer, why is it SO HORRIBLE that they negotiate a good wage for themselves while the company profits on their work?

You can "associate" all you want. There is nothing constitutional about being able to walk off the job, and the employer can't fire you. Private property rights, mean just that. It's not your property. Sucking air, doesn't mean you can't be fired anymore.

Thankfully the free-market is pushing unions out of existence.

What's not constitutional about responding when the company doesn't stand up to their contractual obligations?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yep. GM should have been left to fail.

Yea you tellem. And ALL the troubled banks and AIG should have ALL been allowed to fail. Right?

Absolutely positively yes!

 

[Andylusion]

Yep. GM should have been left to fail. Instead, obama bailed them out with our money. Lot's of union guys would have been left without a pension but the company gave them what they wanted.

GM was bailed out in October, 2008. Nice try.

We can even go back as to why GM failed. It's called real estate failures through GMAC Mortgage/Real Estate, and the failed BushCo approved GM/Di-Tech buyout. Again, Republican/corporate America/wall street fail.

See, it's brainless stupidity like that, that I know people on the left just make up whatever crap they want, and spew it on here.

GMAC purchased Di-Tech in 1999. So apparently, according to this leftard, Bill Clinton, allowed Bush Jr, to take over the government for one day, to approve the buyout, and then relinquished control.

You people just make up crap whenever you want.

 

[Andylusion]

As a business owner that has in the past owned a Union shop, I found the Union to be a great partner who provided well trained workers. Of course I didn't try to fuck my workers out of their pay or benefits like so many of the Union haters.

These are the facts about labor unions.

Labor Unions are unconstitutional.
It violates the Business owner's right to be safe and secure in his papers and effects regarding his business.

Labor unions are NOT professional associations, professional associations and labor unions are different, in that a labor union seeks to create a monopoly of labor available to the employer, a professional association boosts the reputability of the worker through setting codes and standards, and they offer information about the worker's profession, and offer resources, etc etc..

Labor Unions are often ran by criminals who engage in extortion, loan sharking, aiding and abetting, obstruction of justice, and fraud.


In the long run, labor unions cause poverty, by putting businesses out of business through bankruptcy.

The economic benefits are relatively short term, and even during their time as being an economic benefit, they create economic inequality in favor of the union workers, as opposed to non union workers, and they cause price increases further tipping the scales in favor of Union workers.

This pay increase is due to the fact that artificial labor monopolies have the exact same consequences as any other monopoly, amongst those are price hikes, by the demand of the monopoly.

Union workers create an artificial monopoly, which is STILL a monopoly, and monopolies have never worked for the consumer.
The consumer of labor is the employer and the customers or clients.

While monopolies are not unconstitutional for the consumer, they are against any standard that seeks to create reputability in business, and they ARE unconstitutional for the employer, because it violates the employers right to be secure in his papers and effects regarding his business.

Because the labor monopoly holds the employer hostage to the labor monopoly, it is very hard, if not impossible to fire the workers, or to take disciplinary action against the said worker or workers.

This means that the union worker can behave nearly any way that he so chooses and get away with it.
This inevitably turns the union workers into unruly scum with no discipline whatsoever.

Late check ins, early clock outs, rude and insulting behavior, and piss poor performance, frequent absences from work, dress that is only "moderately appropriate" and certainly not serious for the job, and excuse after excuse for it.

And even off the job... because the union workers have no discipline, their bad habits might roll over into their life away from work, and affect their behavior at home, and in public.

Labor Unions also cause discrimination, by making it mandatory to join the union.


So I would make it illegal under the current laws against extortion, and the Sherman anti trust laws against monopolies, to have labor unions.

You should check this out sometime:

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

You don't have the right to extort business owners and employers, or hold business owners and employers hostage to you and/or your group.
You also don't have the right to require applicants to join your union...

And you also don't have the right to keep your job, after failing to do your job and calling a "strike".

It's not extortion to negotiate a better deal for you and your other workers.

And the First Amendment guarantees freedom of association so you're wrong on it being unconstitutional.

No, unions are not run as criminal organizations today so nice try.

Why shouldn't workers who can be in a position of leverage to negotiate a better deal for themselves instead of just taking it. If a group of workers has a particular skill set that makes them valuable to an employer, why is it SO HORRIBLE that they negotiate a good wage for themselves while the company profits on their work?

You can "associate" all you want. There is nothing constitutional about being able to walk off the job, and the employer can't fire you. Private property rights, mean just that. It's not your property. Sucking air, doesn't mean you can't be fired anymore.

Thankfully the free-market is pushing unions out of existence.

What's not constitutional about responding when the company doesn't stand up to their contractual obligations?

Again, making up stuff. When the company pays you the agreed upon wage, there is no violation of some contractual obligation.

When you say "we demand you give everyone a raise, or we're going on strike, and you can't fire us".... that's a violation of property rights. The business owner, owns the business. Not you. Unless you are the business owner.

If I hire someone to mow my lawn, that person can't then demand a raise in his pay, and refuse to mow until I pay it, and I'm not allowed to fire him, and hire someone else to mow my lawn.

It's *MY* lawn. It's *MY* money. It's *MY* job if I so choose to hire someone to do it for me. You have no say in ANYTHING.

Same is true of every single job that is created by anyone anywhere.

 

[BULLDOG]

As a business owner that has in the past owned a Union shop, I found the Union to be a great partner who provided well trained workers. Of course I didn't try to fuck my workers out of their pay or benefits like so many of the Union haters.

You should check this out sometime:

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

You don't have the right to extort business owners and employers, or hold business owners and employers hostage to you and/or your group.
You also don't have the right to require applicants to join your union...

And you also don't have the right to keep your job, after failing to do your job and calling a "strike".

It's not extortion to negotiate a better deal for you and your other workers.

And the First Amendment guarantees freedom of association so you're wrong on it being unconstitutional.

No, unions are not run as criminal organizations today so nice try.

Why shouldn't workers who can be in a position of leverage to negotiate a better deal for themselves instead of just taking it. If a group of workers has a particular skill set that makes them valuable to an employer, why is it SO HORRIBLE that they negotiate a good wage for themselves while the company profits on their work?

You can "associate" all you want. There is nothing constitutional about being able to walk off the job, and the employer can't fire you. Private property rights, mean just that. It's not your property. Sucking air, doesn't mean you can't be fired anymore.

Thankfully the free-market is pushing unions out of existence.

What's not constitutional about responding when the company doesn't stand up to their contractual obligations?

Again, making up stuff. When the company pays you the agreed upon wage, there is no violation of some contractual obligation.

When you say "we demand you give everyone a raise, or we're going on strike, and you can't fire us".... that's a violation of property rights. The business owner, owns the business. Not you. Unless you are the business owner.

If I hire someone to mow my lawn, that person can't then demand a raise in his pay, and refuse to mow until I pay it, and I'm not allowed to fire him, and hire someone else to mow my lawn.

It's *MY* lawn. It's *MY* money. It's *MY* job if I so choose to hire someone to do it for me. You have no say in ANYTHING.

Same is true of every single job that is created by anyone anywhere.

Obviously there are lots of things other than pay rate covered in those contracts. However, If you signed a contract with him that allowed for those types of negotiations, that's exactly what could happen.

 

[Andylusion]

As a business owner that has in the past owned a Union shop, I found the Union to be a great partner who provided well trained workers. Of course I didn't try to fuck my workers out of their pay or benefits like so many of the Union haters.

You don't have the right to extort business owners and employers, or hold business owners and employers hostage to you and/or your group.
You also don't have the right to require applicants to join your union...

And you also don't have the right to keep your job, after failing to do your job and calling a "strike".

It's not extortion to negotiate a better deal for you and your other workers.

And the First Amendment guarantees freedom of association so you're wrong on it being unconstitutional.

No, unions are not run as criminal organizations today so nice try.

Why shouldn't workers who can be in a position of leverage to negotiate a better deal for themselves instead of just taking it. If a group of workers has a particular skill set that makes them valuable to an employer, why is it SO HORRIBLE that they negotiate a good wage for themselves while the company profits on their work?

You can "associate" all you want. There is nothing constitutional about being able to walk off the job, and the employer can't fire you. Private property rights, mean just that. It's not your property. Sucking air, doesn't mean you can't be fired anymore.

Thankfully the free-market is pushing unions out of existence.

What's not constitutional about responding when the company doesn't stand up to their contractual obligations?

Again, making up stuff. When the company pays you the agreed upon wage, there is no violation of some contractual obligation.

When you say "we demand you give everyone a raise, or we're going on strike, and you can't fire us".... that's a violation of property rights. The business owner, owns the business. Not you. Unless you are the business owner.

If I hire someone to mow my lawn, that person can't then demand a raise in his pay, and refuse to mow until I pay it, and I'm not allowed to fire him, and hire someone else to mow my lawn.

It's *MY* lawn. It's *MY* money. It's *MY* job if I so choose to hire someone to do it for me. You have no say in ANYTHING.

Same is true of every single job that is created by anyone anywhere.

Obviously there are lots of things other than pay rate covered in those contracts. However, If you signed a contract with him that allowed for those types of negotiations, that's exactly what could happen.

You are skipping to the result, and building the case around that.

What about before the result? Union Contracts are not just randomly signed into existence without cause.

All the employees voted to be unionized... right?

That's fine in and of itself.

Now if they vote to strike, and walk out, in order to force the employer to sign a contract, the employer can't fire them....

Why? There is not contract being violated.

The result of these unconstitutional Union laws, is that the employer is forced into signing a contract with the Unions. That's the result. Not the cause.

The cause, is the unconstitutional laws saying that an employer can't fire employees that are part of the Union, when they walk off the job and don't work, and that employers MUST sign contracts with the Union.

 

[OnePercenter]

You can "associate" all you want. There is nothing constitutional about being able to walk off the job, and the employer can't fire you. Private property rights, mean just that. It's not your property. Sucking air, doesn't mean you can't be fired anymore.

Thankfully the free-market is pushing unions out of existence.

There is no such thing as a free market.

 

[OnePercenter]

See, it's brainless stupidity like that, that I know people on the left just make up whatever crap they want, and spew it on here.

GMAC purchased Di-Tech in 1999. So apparently, according to this leftard, Bill Clinton, allowed Bush Jr, to take over the government for one day, to approve the buyout, and then relinquished control.

You people just make up crap whenever you want.

My reference was to Residential Capital, LLC. Nice try though.

 

[jasonnfree]

Thinking about it even I will shut the bitch down if I see they are making crap parts and lock it out and I am just a maintenance man . I will call it a safety hazard

When did line workers become responsible for bad designs? Why don't you go ahead and shut things down and then tell them they need to just go back to the drawing board? Come back and tell me how it works out for you.

I've gone over management's heads on serious safety violations that they wouldn't take care of because of cost. Never came out well for me but I did it anyway. This will usually just give you a name as a troublemaker no matter how serious the safety violation.

 

[BULLDOG]

Thinking about it even I will shut the bitch down if I see they are making crap parts and lock it out and I am just a maintenance man . I will call it a safety hazard

When did line workers become responsible for bad designs? Why don't you go ahead and shut things down and then tell them they need to just go back to the drawing board? Come back and tell me how it works out for you.

I've gone over management's heads on serious safety violations that they wouldn't take care of because of cost. Never came out well for me but I did it anyway. This will usually just give you a name as a troublemaker no matter how serious the safety violation.

It didn't turn out well with safety violations. What do you think would have happened if you told them their design was crappy and they needed to just redesign it? I suspect you would have been out the door before you finished your sentence.

 

[Iceweasel]

So the realities of labor unions is they can produce crap, demand high wages and benefits and curse anyone who opposes their racket and protectionism so they can continue to produce expensive crap while the rest of the world competes. That's what I thought.

 

[zeke]

So the realities of labor unions is they can produce crap, demand high wages and benefits and curse anyone who opposes their racket and protectionism so they can continue to produce expensive crap while the rest of the world competes. That's what I thought.

Why don't you tell all just which unions are producing crap and demanding higher wages.

Is it the union workers in the defense industry?
Oil and gas industries?
Auto industries?
Public sector unions?
Teamsters?
Aerospace workers?
Aircraft industry workers?


Come on now, when you speak with the certainty that you just wrote the above with, I am sure you have a long list of these awful unions striking and demanding and building shit.

So lets hear it.

 

[zeke]

What is it that you union haters want?
Do you want the hated Federal government to abolish all unions?
Do you want all the unionized industries to leave the country?
Do you want the companies to be able to lock out the union members from doing their jobs?
Do you want to companies to be able in discriminate against union members?
You want people to be fired for even talking about a union?

What is it that you want to do to break the unions further?