The right to own guns, 2nd amendment

[Mortimer]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

Gun fun

Your Serbia has the highest gun ownership, I think the second highest gun ownership in the world. I don't know why Serbs have so many guns, if it's always been like that.

 

[The Great Goose]

It's about having the ability to defend yourself when the government gets taken over by a kenyan halfwit.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

T

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

Tell you what I won't try and tell you how to run your Country and you don't try and tell us how to run ours. OK?

 

[Spoonman]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

0nly .000025 of every gun in America ever kills someone. those are some pretty peaceful odds

 

[Mortimer]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

Gun fun

Your Serbia has the highest gun ownership, I think the second highest gun ownership in the world. I don't know why Serbs have so many guns, if it's always been like that.

I never met someone in Serbia with a gun, maybe in another part of Serbia then where Im from.

 

[Mortimer]

T

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

Tell you what I won't try and tell you how to run your Country and you don't try and tell us how to run ours. OK?

I dont tell you how to run your country, Im just curious why gun ownership is so important to be "free". Is it to practice sports shooting or hunting etc.? Otherwise I dont see why you need a "gun" you need a "gun" if you want to kill someone otherwise you dont need one. I just want to understand.

 

[Hossfly]

T

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

Tell you what I won't try and tell you how to run your Country and you don't try and tell us how to run ours. OK?

I dont tell you how to run your country, Im just curious why gun ownership is so important to be "free". Is it to practice sports shooting or hunting etc.? Otherwise I dont see why you need a "gun" you need a "gun" if you want to kill someone otherwise you dont need one. I just want to understand.

The Constitution of the United States spells out the reason for gun ownership, Mortimer. The main reason is the framers of the Constitution didn't want the government to own us.

 

[Mortimer]

T

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

Tell you what I won't try and tell you how to run your Country and you don't try and tell us how to run ours. OK?

I dont tell you how to run your country, Im just curious why gun ownership is so important to be "free". Is it to practice sports shooting or hunting etc.? Otherwise I dont see why you need a "gun" you need a "gun" if you want to kill someone otherwise you dont need one. I just want to understand.

The Constitution of the United States spells out the reason for gun ownership, Mortimer. The main reason is the framers of the Constitution didn't want the government to own us.

ok makes sense to some degree. a armed population is less easy to controll then a unarmed population.

 

[Hossfly]

T

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

Tell you what I won't try and tell you how to run your Country and you don't try and tell us how to run ours. OK?

I dont tell you how to run your country, Im just curious why gun ownership is so important to be "free". Is it to practice sports shooting or hunting etc.? Otherwise I dont see why you need a "gun" you need a "gun" if you want to kill someone otherwise you dont need one. I just want to understand.

The Constitution of the United States spells out the reason for gun ownership, Mortimer. The main reason is the framers of the Constitution didn't want the government to own us.

ok makes sense to some degree. a armed population is less easy to controll then a unarmed population.

Yes, Hitler figured that out while he vacationed in Landsberg prison.

 

[MikeK]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

The safest animals are those in cages. They have nothing to fear.

 

[Mortimer]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

The safest animals are those in cages. They have nothing to fear.

nonsensical comparison. apples and oranges.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

I want a gun.

I have a right guaranteed by the Constitution to own and carry a gun.

Ergo ...

 

[MikeK]

I dont tell you how to run your country, Im just curious why gun ownership is so important to be "free". Is it to practice sports shooting or hunting etc.? Otherwise I dont see why you need a "gun" you need a "gun" if you want to kill someone otherwise you dont need one. I just want to understand.

The simplest premise is it's better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have one.

 

[Mortimer]

I dont tell you how to run your country, Im just curious why gun ownership is so important to be "free". Is it to practice sports shooting or hunting etc.? Otherwise I dont see why you need a "gun" you need a "gun" if you want to kill someone otherwise you dont need one. I just want to understand.

The simplest premise is it's better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have one.

Its better to not have a gun because you dont need one.

 

[williepete]

Hi Mortimer,

Thanks for the thread. If you are really interested, you may find reading about the founding of the U.S. interesting. We were British Colonials standing up for our rights as British subjects. We felt our rights as Englishmen were being trampled. That rebellion turned into a revolution which turned into an experiment in self government which still continues.

The spark that lit the fuse was as simple as this:

Our King tried to take away our firearms.

We don't have a king anymore.

 

[Mortimer]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

I want a gun.

I have a right guaranteed by the Constitution to own and carry a gun.

Ergo ...

Ok but why do you want a gun? I like sports shooting and maybe because of attraction value like you own a nice watch etc. But I dont need a gun for my safety and thats good. Do you need a gun for your safety? And doesnt more guns create a hostile environment like one guy in the room is aggressive and that turns out to make others aggressive too, a action and reaction if now everyone has a gun doesnt it lead to more killings?

 

[Mortimer]

Hi Mortimer,

Thanks for the thread. If you are really interested, you may find reading about the founding of the U.S. interesting. We were British Colonials standing up for our rights as British subjects we felt were being trampled. That rebellion turned into a revolution which turned into an experiment in self government which still continues.

The spark that lit the fuse is as simple as this:

Our King tried to take away our firearms.

We don't have a king anymore.

Hi. Thanks for explanation, historically it does make sense. I have nothing against gun ownership really, Im just curious why a law abiding citizen wants a gun (even if I dont question his right to have one but if I can have a gun why would I want one even if not fearing for my safety maybe for sports shooting?). And do you really think if Jews in Nazi Germany had Guns the holocaust wouldnt happen? The police and military will always be stronger then some citizens even with a gun.

 

[ding]

Why is it so important for "freedom"? I dont get that really, never owned a gun, and never felt unfree. Actually I would feel uncomfortable if many people in my street owned guns, in Texas even students go with guns to University. Maybe America is a land of criminals that law abiding citizens need guns to protect themselfes but not in Austria. We are a secure and peaceful country.

The Right to Bear Arms (i.e. the 2nd Amendment) was seen by our Founding Fathers as the last check against tyranny. They knew that the best line of defense against a standing army was an armed populace.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

The people who wish to preserve liberty and are capable of bearing arms are the militia.

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

The Founding Fathers believed that peaceable law abiding citizens should never have their right to bear arms be infringed upon.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, WHO ARE PEACEABLE CITIZENS, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

The fundamental purpose of the militia is to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the level of equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

Well regulated does not mean regulations. When the Constitution specifies regulations it specifically states who and what is being regulated. The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. The fundamental purpose of the militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the necessary equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

 

[Dr Grump]

Tell you what I won't try and tell you how to run your Country and you don't try and tell us how to run ours. OK?

But you do. Just ask Iraq. Afghanistan. Chile. Vietnam. Grenada. I could go on....