The risk of income inequality

[Andylusion]

In many cases, it's because there is nothing left over to save. Hard to save what you don't have. We have more working people getting help from our government than at any other time in history. This is nothing short of corporate welfare.

More bullshit.

If you don't have enough to save then you have 2 options. Earn more or spend less.

And we have more people on the government teat because we have changed the rules so it's easier than ever to get assistance.

How do you earn more when there are no jobs out there? There are people already working two and three jobs and not making ends meat. Others who are not working, many of them who worked for 20 or 30 years before being laid off of their job and believe me, at 55, you can't get another job if you have been in the restaurant industry all that time. I have a friend who was in that boat. She finally got a job as a maid and then was fired because she couldn't do 16 rooms in an hour. My sister, 40 years ago was a maid and she only had to do 8 rooms in an hour. They want a lot for their money these days. A 55 year old cannot keep up with an 18 year old no matter how much she tries. Society is just throwing people away. Too young to retire, too old to get work and you're all "They just need to get another job!" You have no idea what's going on out there in the REAL world.

There are jobs out there. If you can't make it with the skills you have, then you have to either cut your life style down, or gain new skills.

All of you should be saving for retirement. If you don't, then that's your own fault. If you saved just $100 a month, from 25 to retirement, you'll be a millionaire or close to it. Everyone should know that you are not going to be young forever. You will get old, and if you don't save for your retirement, that's not our fault. That's why Social Security is going broke, and they will have to raise the retirement age soon. We're not paying for you. Sorry.

Do you know why you have to do 16 rooms in an hour? It's because of the high labor law costs.

The amount of money any business has to pay you, is limited. The amount of work that needs done is static as well.

We have this many rooms, and they need cleaned, and ready in a certain time, for our customers.

When you increase taxes, increase health care benefits, increase minimum wage laws.....

What that means is, business doesn't have magically more money to pay you, just because of all these labor laws.

Thus, in order to pay the same amount for the same work, you have to do more work in an hour.

 

[DiamondDave]

I asked if you think its fair that 50% pay no income tax, and in fact many have a negative income tax due to EIC.

What specific things would you do to take income from the top earners and GIVE it to the lower 50%?

raising taxes will do nothing but drive successful people out of this country, you fricken libtards are determined to punish the job creators, because of your insane jealousy of their success.

Why are the rich leaving California and New York? Any idea, Norton? Puniative taxation, thats why.

OK..lets look at it this way

40% of our population controls 2 TENTHS of a percent of our nations wealth. That is the population you are complaining so much about

5% of our population controls 61.9% of our wealth. That is the population you believe is oppressed

Must be nice to own most of the wealth and get a bunch of poor repubs to believe you are also the victim

Inequality in treatment by government knows no economic limit..

Funny how you and your ilk will scream for equality in treatment when it benefits you or your cause.. but scream for the inequality in treatment for others when it also benefits you or your cause

 

[eflatminor]

The top 10% own more wealth than the bottom 90% combined, is that fair? They own, 90% of the wealth, seems to me, they should be paying 90% of the taxes.

You realize income taxes are based on...wait for it...income, not wealth, right?

Further, unless you have evidence that someone in that top 10% stole his wealth, then how is their net worth, whatever it may be, NOT fair? Do you think there is some magical distribution of wealth that constitutes "fair"? Who determines that?

Lastly, while I think the idea of taxing a person's labor...ANY person...is immoral, if we're going to have an income tax, how is a flat tax with the first $X exempt not "fair"? Can you explain that in your own words?

Very true, which is why our super wealthy try to set up their compensation as capital gains rather than income

You know all those executives who claim they are only paid $1 a year but have huge stock options?

Short term capital gains are taxed at the exact same rate as income. Long term vary depending your tax bracket. Either are taxed twice.

FAIL...yet again.

The Capital Gains Tax Rate Should Be Zero | Cato @ Liberty

 

[ScienceRocks]

EDUCATION, Education and more education. We need college reform so people don't get 40, 50 or 100 thousand dollars into debt for going after that education.

Next we need a plan like we had in the 40's, 50's and 60's to modernize our infrastructure, and support growth within the American economy. Good areas to focus on are tech, science and bringing back our industrial strength we handed to china.

 

[Brain357]

You realize income taxes are based on...wait for it...income, not wealth, right?

Further, unless you have evidence that someone in that top 10% stole his wealth, then how is their net worth, whatever it may be, NOT fair? Do you think there is some magical distribution of wealth that constitutes "fair"? Who determines that?

Lastly, while I think the idea of taxing a person's labor...ANY person...is immoral, if we're going to have an income tax, how is a flat tax with the first $X exempt not "fair"? Can you explain that in your own words?

Very true, which is why our super wealthy try to set up their compensation as capital gains rather than income

You know all those executives who claim they are only paid $1 a year but have huge stock options?

And still pay a higher % of tax on those capital gains than a majority of citizens pay on their total income
Again.. answer.. flat tax on all income without exception, exemption, ceiling, floor, deduction, or excuse...

Sounds like more incentive to not work.

 

[ScienceRocks]

So cut the contracts and put more people out of work?

Not entirely, you augment your hiring plan. I would rather see we start with the those enabled to stay at home as they have no incentive to work. Those who truly seek work will find it

-Geaux

Not entirely? If it costs jobs it's a pretty bad plan. Will only grow the number not working.

How about we create incentives for companies to employ here? That makes a lot more sense.

Good idea. How about also taxing foreign businesses at a higher levels and favoring ours like most nations do. Oh'noo's we can't have any of that as that would take a little bit of government.

 

[eflatminor]

Do you know what an "income tax" is?

If the top 5% are collecting that much of our nations available income, you bet your ass that is fair

It's not the nation's income, nitwit. Income belongs to those who receive it. it doesn't belong to the government or "the nation."

Only to anarchists who still do not accept the fact that they are members of a society

Thank you for demonstrating beyond a shadow of a doubt what a Marxist fuck you really are.

 

[rightwinger]

This is just another excuse. You can improve your income in a matter of months, if you really want to, and there is nothing this graph can do to stop you.

You can mow lawns and make $36K a year.
You can drive a truck, free schooling, and make $45K a year starting.
You can work at Walmart, enter their management training program, and end up $70K a year.

I could list off the first hand stories of people who have done all of this.

There's a popular restaurant down the road from me, started by a guy who made his living as a cook for a tiny hole in the wall shop. Mexican immigrant, no education, barely speaks English. Now he owns his own store.

I worked at an auto parts store, where the assistant manager worked his way up from being a minimum wage employee. Now he's the store manager at a new store.

I know a guy from Romania, who started out flipping burgers at Wendy's where I worked in high school. Now he's store manager of the largest Hertz rent-a-car in Columbus. He didn't even own a car when he worked at Wendy's. Now he's pulling $70K plus store profit bonus.

All of these people, and dozens of others I could list, are now making good money. The difference between those people, and people like you, are that they didn't b!tching about a graph. They are standing up, moving, and making life happen for them.

The people like me, on the right, are not suggesting merely "you should work harder".

It's not 'working harder' that solves everything. It's working smarter. That Mexican dude's solution, wasn't to "work harder" at being a low wage cook at a tiny hole in the wall diner. The solution was to save up cash, not blow it on beer and parties, and then open a his own store.

That guy at the auto part stores solution, wasn't to b!tch about a "living wage" and complain about the little man can't get ahead. The solution was to take the companies free management classes, and work for promotions, until they gave him his own store.

That Romanian guy's solution was not to stomp around outside the Wendy's with a sign saying "We want $15/hr!". His solution was to find a job that paid more, and work that.

If you waste your life b!tching and complaining about how things should be, you'll just waste your life. Get off your butt.... and go make life happen.

Your "I know a guy" analogies do not work

Nobody is questioning whether it is still possible to find good paying jobs in this country. The issue is there are not enough good paying jobs out there for the 30 million who have to rely on additional government support to get by

There are not 30 million lawn mowing jobs out there. There are not 30 million "second jobs" out there

The problem with income inequality is that there are fewer career paths open to jobs that you can sustain yourself on

If a guy from Romania can come here with no education, and is able to support a family of 4 on minimum wage at Wendy's, then the entire concept of "the 30 million who have to rely on additional government support to get by" theory is false.

It's just false. You can make it on very little. I have. In 2012, I made a grand total of $12K for the whole year. I survived. I managed. I didn't take a penny from the tax payers.

Was it easy? No. Was it fun. Absolutely not. Was it something I want to continue? No.

But the solution to that problem wasn't a government program. It was me, getting a better job. Which is what I did.

Again you are confusing Microeconomics with Macroeconomics

One person can succeed...that does not correlate to 30 million people can succeed. What you need to succeed is an opportunity for career growth. Those opportunities are not the same as they were 30 years ago.

Even our brightest and most talented who graduate from college are finding difficult career opportunities in which they can pay off their debt and support themselves and a family

College students used to graduate, get married and buy a car and an appartment
Todays college student moves back in with their parents

 

[eflatminor]

How about also taxing foreign businesses at a higher levels and favoring ours like most nations do. Oh'noo's we can't have any of that as that would take a little bit of government.

Are you saying the US has the ability to tax a business in another country? How would that work?

Or, are you saying we should tax US companies doing business overseas at a higher level "like most nations do"? You realize that we're the ONLY country that taxes income earned in other countries, right?

 

[rightwinger]

It's not the nation's income, nitwit. Income belongs to those who receive it. it doesn't belong to the government or "the nation."

Only to anarchists who still do not accept the fact that they are members of a society

Thank you for demonstrating beyond a shadow of a doubt what a Marxist fuck you really are.

You don't have the slightest idea of what a society is or how it functions do you?

 

[DiamondDave]

Your "I know a guy" analogies do not work

Nobody is questioning whether it is still possible to find good paying jobs in this country. The issue is there are not enough good paying jobs out there for the 30 million who have to rely on additional government support to get by

There are not 30 million lawn mowing jobs out there. There are not 30 million "second jobs" out there

The problem with income inequality is that there are fewer career paths open to jobs that you can sustain yourself on

If a guy from Romania can come here with no education, and is able to support a family of 4 on minimum wage at Wendy's, then the entire concept of "the 30 million who have to rely on additional government support to get by" theory is false.

It's just false. You can make it on very little. I have. In 2012, I made a grand total of $12K for the whole year. I survived. I managed. I didn't take a penny from the tax payers.

Was it easy? No. Was it fun. Absolutely not. Was it something I want to continue? No.

But the solution to that problem wasn't a government program. It was me, getting a better job. Which is what I did.

Again you are confusing Microeconomics with Macroeconomics

One person can succeed...that does not correlate to 30 million people can succeed. What you need to succeed is an opportunity for career growth. Those opportunities are not the same as they were 30 years ago.

Even our brightest and most talented who graduate from college are finding difficult career opportunities in which they can pay off their debt and support themselves and a family

College students used to graduate, get married and buy a car and an appartment
Todays college student moves back in with their parents

Again.. confusing the freedom to succeed that goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail, with some bullshit assurance or guarantee not to fail and have some level of success

College paper does not mean they are the best and brightest

 

[Andylusion]

That' just more ambiguous lip flapping like fair share or decent wage

It's what is happening. Why do you think government spending is so high?

Good point I never even thought of it that way.

But if Walmart and McDonalds have republicans defending their low wages then Walmart and McDonalds encourage their employees to get on welfare then we are adding more and more people to the awful welfare that republicans supposedly hate.

Not understanding they are promoting and encouraging the environment that will create bigger govt.

Again, Walmart can't just pay more, or McDonald's. If Walmart becomes more expensive than other stores that pay less, then Walmart goes out of business, and all those 2.2 Million people they employ, are out of work.

Is that better? Same with McDonald's. And by the way, Walmart pays more than most other places.

See, you seem to get this idea that companies have magic money trees that pay wages. They don't. Every single penny that a company has to pay employees, comes from customers.

Are you willing to pay $20 for a burger at McDonalds? Because that's what it's going to cost to pay Employees $20 an hour.

Look at Norway. McDonald's in Norway pays about $15 an hour.

That's a McDonald's menu from Norway. Notice the price. About $16 for a big mac.

That's how that works. No business can pay employees more money, than the customer is willing to pay for the product or service.

We're not going to McDs to pay $20 for a burger. Thus the McDonald's either closes, or replaces workers with robots.

Is that better? Either way, the workers are unemployed.

How much government welfare and food stamps, are they going to get when they are earning ZERO from being unemployed? Your minimum wage would make the situation much worse, not better.

 

[eflatminor]

Only to anarchists who still do not accept the fact that they are members of a society

Thank you for demonstrating beyond a shadow of a doubt what a Marxist fuck you really are.

You don't have the slightest idea of what a society is or how it functions do you?

Your red herring / ad hominem does nothing to disprove your Marxist point of view. It's there clear as day for all to see. You go with that comrade.

 

[DiamondDave]

Not entirely, you augment your hiring plan. I would rather see we start with the those enabled to stay at home as they have no incentive to work. Those who truly seek work will find it

-Geaux

Not entirely? If it costs jobs it's a pretty bad plan. Will only grow the number not working.

How about we create incentives for companies to employ here? That makes a lot more sense.

Good idea. How about also taxing foreign businesses at a higher levels and favoring ours like most nations do. Oh'noo's we can't have any of that as that would take a little bit of government.

We have sovereignty over foreign business or foreign land where businesses are located?? News to me... Tariff imports more? Sure... You can't impose your liberal taxation will upon things that do not reside or get transacted upon in our country

 

[Andylusion]

I'm for the right sized government and the right amount of taxes

the top 5% are paying 40% of the income taxes, the bottom 50% are paying nothing. Is that "fair" ?

Do you know what an "income tax" is?

If the top 5% are collecting that much of our nations available income, you bet your ass that is fair

See that's the difference. Fair in my book is everyone contributing equally to the cause.

You pay 10%, I pay 10%, everyone pays 10%. Why? Because all of us, from the poorest burger flipper, to the richest CEO, all of us benefit from having a justice system, a national defense, and a stable government.

But you don't see it that way. Fair in your book is, you pay absolutely nothing for all your benefits, and everyone else pays for everything that benefits you.

That's not fair. How much income they make, is completely irrelevant in my book. The only time how much someone else makes, matters to anyone, is when they are greedy envious people. I don't give a crap about those people.

 

[eflatminor]

We have sovereignty over foreign business or foreign land where businesses are located?? News to me...

Seriously! Ol Matt's gonna have to explain that one.

 

[Erand7899]

Do you know what an "income tax" is?

If the top 5% are collecting that much of our nations available income, you bet your ass that is fair

It's not the nation's income, nitwit. Income belongs to those who receive it. it doesn't belong to the government or "the nation."

Only to anarchists who still do not accept the fact that they are members of a society

Being a member of a society does not mean that you exist to serve that society. Nor, does it mean that society has some valid claim to your assets or services. You seem to equate society and the state as one and the same.

 

[Brain357]

It's what is happening. Why do you think government spending is so high?

Good point I never even thought of it that way.

But if Walmart and McDonalds have republicans defending their low wages then Walmart and McDonalds encourage their employees to get on welfare then we are adding more and more people to the awful welfare that republicans supposedly hate.

Not understanding they are promoting and encouraging the environment that will create bigger govt.

Again, Walmart can't just pay more, or McDonald's. If Walmart becomes more expensive than other stores that pay less, then Walmart goes out of business, and all those 2.2 Million people they employ, are out of work.

Is that better? Same with McDonald's. And by the way, Walmart pays more than most other places.

See, you seem to get this idea that companies have magic money trees that pay wages. They don't. Every single penny that a company has to pay employees, comes from customers.

Are you willing to pay $20 for a burger at McDonalds? Because that's what it's going to cost to pay Employees $20 an hour.

Look at Norway. McDonald's in Norway pays about $15 an hour.

That's a McDonald's menu from Norway. Notice the price. About $16 for a big mac.

That's how that works. No business can pay employees more money, than the customer is willing to pay for the product or service.

We're not going to McDs to pay $20 for a burger. Thus the McDonald's either closes, or replaces workers with robots.

Is that better? Either way, the workers are unemployed.

How much government welfare and food stamps, are they going to get when they are earning ZERO from being unemployed? Your minimum wage would make the situation much worse, not better.

They can't afford to pay more while ceo and exec pay skyrockets?

 

[DiamondDave]

Good point I never even thought of it that way.

But if Walmart and McDonalds have republicans defending their low wages then Walmart and McDonalds encourage their employees to get on welfare then we are adding more and more people to the awful welfare that republicans supposedly hate.

Not understanding they are promoting and encouraging the environment that will create bigger govt.

Again, Walmart can't just pay more, or McDonald's. If Walmart becomes more expensive than other stores that pay less, then Walmart goes out of business, and all those 2.2 Million people they employ, are out of work.

Is that better? Same with McDonald's. And by the way, Walmart pays more than most other places.

See, you seem to get this idea that companies have magic money trees that pay wages. They don't. Every single penny that a company has to pay employees, comes from customers.

Are you willing to pay $20 for a burger at McDonalds? Because that's what it's going to cost to pay Employees $20 an hour.

Look at Norway. McDonald's in Norway pays about $15 an hour.

That's a McDonald's menu from Norway. Notice the price. About $16 for a big mac.

That's how that works. No business can pay employees more money, than the customer is willing to pay for the product or service.

We're not going to McDs to pay $20 for a burger. Thus the McDonald's either closes, or replaces workers with robots.

Is that better? Either way, the workers are unemployed.

How much government welfare and food stamps, are they going to get when they are earning ZERO from being unemployed? Your minimum wage would make the situation much worse, not better.

They can't afford to pay more while ceo and exec pay skyrockets?

99.999% can flip a burger or push a register button with little or no training.. it is the rare person that can run a successful multi-national corporation

When anyone can do what you do, or you can be replaced by cheap technology that does not have a wage, you don't earn shit.. and rightfully so... your income level is on YOU

 

[ClosedCaption]

the top 5% are paying 40% of the income taxes, the bottom 50% are paying nothing. Is that "fair" ?

The top 10% own more wealth than the bottom 90% combined, is that fair? They own, 90% of the wealth, seems to me, they should be paying 90% of the taxes.

There goes the liberal mind again.. thinking that the wealth owned belongs to someone else or the government.. and completely misunderstanding the difference between wealth and income

This guy never makes a point he just thinks snark and sarcasm are points

You even ask him What day it is and he'll respond. "Pbbbt Liberals think its thursday not understanding the calender which isnt surprising"

Never has an answer to anything