The Sentimental Nature of the Liberal Socialist

[red states rule]

The USA has a bit over 300 million LEGAL residents. Add in 11 to 20 million illegals and go from there.

That would be 150 million starving US citizens and about 5 to 10 million starving illegals

Where the hell are they? The liberal media would be all over this

 

[Larkinn]

Wake up, get out of your shell, and look around you.

There are hungry people in America.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5023829

Some 38 million people in America are considered "food insecure" -- they have trouble finding the money to keep food on the table.

See a charity trying to do something about it:

http://www.hungerinamerica.org/

Hungry is different than starving to death.

 

[red states rule]

Hungry is different than starving to death.

Try working - that would solve the problem

 

[Larkinn]

Try working - that would solve the problem

For minimum wage? No, it really wouldn't.

 

[red states rule]

For minimum wage? No, it really wouldn't.

Few people work for minimum wage, and libs just raised it

Of cousre, if libs get their tax increase, those folks will take home very little of the increase

 

[Superlative]

Few people work for minimum wage, and libs just raised it

Few people work for minimum wage?

According to Current Population Survey estimates for 2004, some 73.9 million American workers were paid at hourly rates,
representing 59.8 percent of all wage and salary workers. Of those paid by the hour, 520,000 were reported as earning exactly
$5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage, and another 1.5 million were reported earning wages below the minimum.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2004pdf.pdf

 

[red states rule]

Few people work for minimum wage?



http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2004pdf.pdf

In that 2 million - how many are students living at home, seniors who are on SS working part time, and of all the workers; how many are part time?

 

[JeffWartman]

The USA has a bit over 300 million LEGAL residents. Add in 11 to 20 million illegals and go from there.

That would be 150 million starving US citizens and about 5 to 10 million starving illegals

You are really really really bad at math.

 

[Superlative]

You are really really really bad at math.

Math is the least of RSR's issues.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yes its a possibility, everything is a possibility. But I don't see any reason to believe its a reality. So until you provide that evidence, I am going to discount it as an uninformed opinion with nothing to back it up.

Well, if it's a possibility and you can't prove otherwise, then your contention that a private system is bad is rather moot. Looks like what we really need are some more facts before we proceed. However, being a sentimental liberal socialist I'm sure if there is only 1 person not plugged into the system you would prefer to holler for socialized health care.

To the point of how many people have health insurance or not? Please, explain to me how that is relevant.

I'll try to explain again. With too many people overloading the system people are going to get shortchanged. When you have 12 million illegals on minimum wages or no wages at all using our health care system, those 12 million overload the system and suck our services dry while driving up costs. This is not fair to legal Americans, both the poor and the others who are paying dearly for the health care system through premiums and taxes.

Umm no. It means that the 44 million don't include people who were uninsured only for one day...if you used that stat it would be 82 million. So one of your assumptions about the 44 million number is incorrect.

In any case, the fact that 82 million are temporarily out of insurance, even if for only 1 day during a year, points to one of the failures of our system where people depend on their insurance from employers. I believe insurance should be bought at the individual level, just like car insurance. Insurance should be portable and stick with the person, not their job. If it is an open marketplace product people can shop for exactly what they need and can afford. Competition for the health dollar will bring prices down. I think HSAs and catastrophic insurance are the best answers so far. Of course there will always be the poor but with a more streamlined and cheaper system they will be more easily absorbed into the mix. There is no need to put everybody on the same health care dole.

It is not easily available for me. I don't have pretax money, I don't have any money. I will also have health insurance in about 2 months. Despite the fact that my not having health insurance may have been stupid (I definitely don't preclude that possibility), I don't think I deserve death, nor possible death, for that possible mistake.

Health care is easily available to you. You can buy individual private insurance off the market. I showed you one place you can go to get it: ehealthinsurance.com. Plug in your zip code, your sex, your age, whether you smoke or go to college, and presto, they will quote you a bunch of health programs in your area that you can sign up for, including HSAs. If you qualify to join, they will mail you a bill. If you don't have money to pay the bill you need to start working to get some. Maybe there should be a law that forces people to purchase health care insurance just like we are forced now to get car insurance. There could also be coverage for premiums during income breaks. That way many people like you won't slip through the cracks. And if you absolutely cannot afford it, you can always get government welfare health care. I agree nobody should "deserve death" just because they cannot afford insurance premiums.

And no, I won't be a hot shot lawyer. I am uninterested in making shitloads of money being a corporate shill. I will be doing public interest law, or hopefully, international humanitarian law.

God help us all. Just kidding. Sorta..

Government housing is shit because there is no money in it because nobody in this country gives a fuck about the poor.

People in this country DO give a shit about the poor because we have been paying taxes for years and years to support the government programs that are helping them. Haven't you ever heard about the War on Poverty? If you don't like government housing, what makes you think government health care will be any better?

This is a lie. Its annoying. Please don't do it again.

No, it is not a lie…it's actually happening. Read this:

Limousine Liberals for mass transit
Today's Seattle Times reports on Al Gore's visit to Seattle Friday -- "Gore praises Seattle's efforts in combating global warming" The main part of the effort is to get people out of their cars:
The proposals include more bus service, denser housing, better energy efficiency, shifting from fossil fuels to more renewable resources, and making it more expensive for people to drive cars in the city.
We learn later in the article that
(Mayor)Nickels came to work Friday in a city-issued Cadillac DTS ... Gore was driven to the event from his hotel in downtown Seattle
Nickels' excuse for his chauffered limousine is that "his police security team requires him to ride in a large and powerful car". That sounds an awful lot like what Boris Yeltsin famously called "full communism". Greg Nickels and Al Gore can ride the bus with all the other poor shnooks whom they want to force out of their cars.
http://soundpolitics.com/archives/005933.html

I know its a foreign concept to you because you seem to have no idea what a liberal is, or what liberalism entails, but liberals often disagree with each other.

Oh I see. Facts are just a matter of opinion to liberals?

Do a little bit of research of what being a liberal is before approaching me with bullshit like this. Really, controlling what people eat? Oh, wait, you probably think we eat babies too, right?

You mean you've never heard about the food police? Read it and weep:
http://www.akdart.com/food.html

 

[red states rule]

You are really really really bad at math.

I was responding to post 238 by mattskramer

 

[Larkinn]

Well, if it's a possibility and you can't prove otherwise, then your contention that a private system is bad is rather moot. Looks like what we really need are some more facts before we proceed. However, being a sentimental liberal socialist I'm sure if there is only 1 person not plugged into the system you would prefer to holler for socialized health care.

Lmao...anything is a possibility. That I can't prove otherwise to every unsubstantiated allegation means nothing. You made the allegation, YOU prove it. Otherwise I don't need to treat the possibility of anything more than the already half-disproven assertions of a message board Republican.

I'll try to explain again. With too many people overloading the system people are going to get shortchanged. When you have 12 million illegals on minimum wages or no wages at all using our health care system, those 12 million overload the system and suck our services dry while driving up costs. This is not fair to legal Americans, both the poor and the others who are paying dearly for the health care system through premiums and taxes.

Thats nice.

We are talking about the people who don't have healthcare. You are trying to say that of the 44 million who have no healthcare, 12 million are illegal immigrants. This is an assumption, and 99% a LIE. Responding to me calling you out by whining and bitching about the effect illegals have on the wages is merely a poor attempt to change the conversation.

Health care is easily available to you. You can buy individual private insurance off the market. I showed you one place you can go to get it: ehealthinsurance.com. Plug in your zip code, your sex, your age, whether you smoke or go to college, and presto, they will quote you a bunch of health programs in your area that you can sign up for, including HSAs. If you qualify to join, they will mail you a bill. If you don't have money to pay the bill you need to start working to get some. Maybe there should be a law that forces people to purchase health care insurance just like we are forced now to get car insurance. There could also be coverage for premiums during income breaks. That way many people like you won't slip through the cracks. And if you absolutely cannot afford it, you can always get government welfare health care. I agree nobody should "deserve death" just because they cannot afford insurance premiums.

Congratulations on saying something that makes sense.

God help us all. Just kidding. Sorta..

I know. God help us from those who want to stop genocide in Darfur, human rights abuses in Myanmar, and torture around the globe. But going into corporate law and charging $200 an hour because the state makes it hard as hell to get a divorce...well thats ok.

People in this country DO give a shit about the poor because we have been paying taxes for years and years to support the government programs that are helping them. Haven't you ever heard about the War on Poverty? If you don't like government housing, what makes you think government health care will be any better?

The war on poverty was something Johnson did...as poverty has increased, these programs have decreased. No, you don't give a shit about the poor. People don't want them dying on the streets, but besides that they are ok if they are marginilized and pushed to the bounderies of society. The war on poverty is dead, and Clinton helped give it the death knell with the welfare reform.

No, it is not a lie…it's actually happening. Read this:

Do you get the difference between encouraging and forcing?

Oh I see. Facts are just a matter of opinion to liberals?

What the hell are you talking about?

You mean you've never heard about the food police? Read it and weep:
http://www.akdart.com/food.html

[/quote]

From the website
This entire web site is written, edited and maintained by one person with a plain text editor.

Clearly its one of the great reference sites of our day. I have numerous friends who are programmers, I can throw up a site tomorrow that says ScreamingEagle has a known propensity for raping little boys, put up names, pictures from the internet, etc, etc.

Really...challenge yourself a bit. Find sources based on their reputability, not whether they agree with you or not.

 

[red states rule]

Lmao...anything is a possibility. That I can't prove otherwise to every unsubstantiated allegation means nothing. You made the allegation, YOU prove it. Otherwise I don't need to treat the possibility of anything more than the already half-disproven assertions of a message board Republican.



Thats nice.

We are talking about the people who don't have healthcare. You are trying to say that of the 44 million who have no healthcare, 12 million are illegal immigrants. This is an assumption, and 99% a LIE. Responding to me calling you out by whining and bitching about the effect illegals have on the wages is merely a poor attempt to change the conversation.



Congratulations on saying something that makes sense.



I know. God help us from those who want to stop genocide in Darfur, human rights abuses in Myanmar, and torture around the globe. But going into corporate law and charging $200 an hour because the state makes it hard as hell to get a divorce...well thats ok.



The war on poverty was something Johnson did...as poverty has increased, these programs have decreased. No, you don't give a shit about the poor. People don't want them dying on the streets, but besides that they are ok if they are marginilized and pushed to the bounderies of society. The war on poverty is dead, and Clinton helped give it the death knell with the welfare reform.



Do you get the difference between encouraging and forcing?



What the hell are you talking about?

From the website
This entire web site is written, edited and maintained by one person with a plain text editor.

Clearly its one of the great reference sites of our day. I have numerous friends who are programmers, I can throw up a site tomorrow that says ScreamingEagle has a known propensity for raping little boys, put up names, pictures from the internet, etc, etc.

Really...challenge yourself a bit. Find sources based on their reputability, not whether they agree with you or not.[/QUOTE]

Where the hell do you get your facts?

The US government has spent $9 trillion on social programs in the last 40 some years

and the national debt is - uh - $9 trillion

The figures on the inflated number of those without health ins comes from the Census Bureau - and illegals are included

 

[Larkinn]

\

Where the hell do you get your facts?

The US government has spent $9 trillion on social programs in the last 40 some years

and the national debt is - uh - $9 trillion

The figures on the inflated number of those without health ins comes from the Census Bureau - and illegals are included

Social programs? Thats a very wide term, that includes more than just those designed to help the poor.

Lmao...yes illegals are included, but no not all illegals are included because, obviously, some have healthcare.

 

[red states rule]

Social programs? Thats a very wide term, that includes more than just those designed to help the poor.

Lmao...yes illegals are included, but no not all illegals are included because, obviously, some have healthcare.

Yea, they have health care - I am paying for it with my tax dollars

BTW, we have the richest poor in the world

 

[Larkinn]

Yea, they have health care - I am paying for it with my tax dollars

BTW, we have the richest poor in the world

You are assuming they all have government healthcare, which is incorrect.

We do NOT have the richest poor in the world. That is an out and out lie. What a surprise.

I could name half a dozen countries whose poor are better off than ours.

 

[red states rule]

You are assuming they all have government healthcare, which is incorrect.

We do NOT have the richest poor in the world. That is an out and out lie. What a surprise.

I could name half a dozen countries whose poor are better off than ours.

Why should illegals have government provided health care?


The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

 

[actsnoblemartin]

illegals should not even be in the united states, and im committed to whatever cost, to get every single last one of them out of my country, build the fence, to stop any more illegal aliens from mexico from coming in here, then legal immigrants from any part of the world can have jobs, not just the im so special mexican/hispanic/ gimme me gimme me free stuff

Why should illegals have government provided health care?


The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

oh and incase i wasnt clear, they dont deserve a penny, and anyone caught illegal entering the u.s. should be shot. NO MORE ANCHOR BABIES

 

[Larkinn]

Why should illegals have government provided health care?


The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

Thats nice.

Irrelevant to the point, but what else is new. You can only support your point by pointing to a comparison between the US and other countries, not by stating facts only about the US.

 

[red states rule]

Thats nice.

Irrelevant to the point, but what else is new. You can only support your point by pointing to a comparison between the US and other countries, not by stating facts only about the US.

It shows we do have the worlds richest poor - as I said before