The sovereign citizen, and his right to keep and bear arms

Little-Acorn

Gold Member
Jun 20, 2006
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The 2nd amendment is simple and clear: For such-and-such reasons, ordinary people's right to own and carry guns and other such weapons can't be taken away or restricted.

The people who wrote and ratified the 2nd, could have put in exceptions for "more than ten guns per household", or "Feds can't restrict guns but states still can", or "except for reasonable restrictions decided by legislators" or "except around schools or post offices", etc. But they didn't. And that omission was careful and deliberate.

The reasons why you should be able to own and carry a gun, are many. Knowing a victim may be carrying, can make a thief or mugger think twice. It can also make a corrupt sheriff who wants your property or your daughter, think twice. Or make a poisonous legislature who wants to put, say, all blacks into chains or all Jews into an oven, think twice if those blacks or Jews (and/or their friends) own guns and regularly have them with them.

But the main reason you should always have the right to own and carry guns, has to do with the basic reason the country was founded.

Hundreds of years ago, people started coming to this continent, mostly from Europe and adjacent areas, to get away from the restrictions and oppression placed on them by kings, feudal lords, etc. - often placed without their consent. They came here to get a fresh start, and eventually they came up with the idea of having a country where the citizen's decisions would be supreme. No king would tell him what to do, no politburo, no feudal lord. Even the government that was necessary, would be elected by the citizen - and could be kicked out by that citizen.

This idea was a first in the history of mankind's attempts to form large countries, outside of a few ancient and unwieldy democracies such as the one tried by ancient Greece. It was soon dubbed "The Great American Experiment" - the idea that no one could overrule the citizen's own decisions, other than government officials that the citizen could kick out if he didn't like them. In a word, the citizen would be sovereign - subject to no rule above his own.

The idea behind the Great American Experiment, assumed that individual people will do a better job running their own lives, making their own decisions, making mistakes, taking the consequences themselves, and learning from them; than an all-powerful government will do making those decisions for those people. And that includes making decisions on how and when to protect yourself and your loved ones... which necessarily includes YOU deciding what instrument(s) you will use to do it.

The freedom to own and carry any gun you want, is the ultimate expression of the sovereignity of the private citizen. Nobody (and that means NOBODY) can try to mess with him without facing the severest consequences. The sovereign citizen's own decisions, good or bad, are the ultimate determinant of his fate and his life. And his ability to own and carry deadly weapons, capable of harming or even killing those around him and subject ONLY to his own personal decision, is what makes sure it stays that way.

Though your right to carry must be absolute and inviolate, that doesn't mean you MUST carry, of course. Even where the right to carry a gun is not infringed, most people don't bother. But they must always have the RIGHT to carry if they decide they need to - a right no one may interfere with, and a decision no one can take away from them.

Even the possiblity that a man with bad judgment might use his weapon to unjustly threaten, injure or kill an innocent person, is not sufficient reason to take away EVERYONE'S right to own and carry such weapons. The Framers made the hard decision that even with the occasional (and inevitable) injury or death of an innocent person at the hands of a careless or criminal gun owner, the right of all people to be gun owners must be held sacrosanct... that society would be better off under those circumstances, than under a system where government could restrict citizens' rights to own and carry weapons. Partly because the Framers knew that the power to restrict that right, was ultimately the power to take it away completely - and the Framers knew that society would be worse off under those conditions, than under the conditions where an occasional mistake or criminal's act could result in an injury, possibly a fatal one.

Under the Great American Experiment, people were to be free to make their own decisions and take the consequences of them... including the bad or wrong decisions. Assigning third parties to make those decisions for them, would make them worse off, not better. And so government's only function, was restricted to only protecting those rights of the people. NOT making decisions to "help" them... even if some people thought govt "helping" people was a GOOD idea.

In a very real sense, the right to own and carry a gun is the ultimate manifestation of the Great American Experiment - the ultimate manifestation of freedom. Because it is the best way to ensure that you are left alone to make your own decisions, even if some else doesn't want you to. And only if you violate someone else's rights - say, by injuring or killing an innocent person, for whatever reason - can your own ultimate rights be taken away. Not because you MIGHT - that's not a good enough reason, because anybody might. Only because you DID.

And the Framers were careful to make the 2nd amendment part of the Supreme Law of the Land, to make sure it stayed that way.

Your right to keep and bear arms, isn't just for hunting, or sporting, or even defending yourself against burglars or rapists. It's to make sure that nobody - including government - can take away your ability and your RIGHT to make your own decisions and sink or swim with the consequences yourself.

And even if someone abuses his right to keep and bear arms, injuring or even killing an innocent person... it still remains that your right to have them - the right of ALL citizens to be sovereign - is far more important than the (relatively rare) tragedy caused by people who abuse that right. The loss of sovereignity of millions of citizens, does the country far more harm than the relatively rare tragedy.

That is why the right of the people to keep and bear arms, has been held inviolate for more than 200 years - despite 200 years of opportunities to change it by amending the Constitution and its 2nd amendment. The American people have repeatedly refused to make any changes to it - a trend that shows no signs of slackening, despite the occasional tragedy or even (very rare) mass murder by criminal or insane people.
 
The constitution, including the second amendment does not give us the right to keep and bear arms. That is a birthrite. The constitution and the second amendment orders the federal government to protect that birthrite from all challenges.
 
And the Framers were careful to make the 2nd amendment part of the Supreme Law of the Land, to make sure it stayed that way.


the Framers also included beforehand the 1st

Article [I.]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


... or the right of the people peaceably to assemble


in light of the 1st Amendment, all public (A)rms should be bolt or lever action per round with non detachable magazines - to insure the right of citizens: peaceably to assemble.
 
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Article [I.]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


... or the right of the people peaceably to assemble


in light of the 1st Amendment, all public (A)rms should be bolt or lever action per round with non detachable magazines - to insure the right of citizens: peaceably to assemble.

(scratching head)

I guess I don't understand where you get that conclusion.

Back to the subject:
Only in a society where the individual is considered supreme, however imperfect he may be, can such a thing as the 2nd amendment exist. It protects his absolute right to own and carry any gun(s) he likes, and NOBODY can take that right away from him.

Even if government officials are uncomfortable with his having that right.
 
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The 2nd amendment is simple and clear: For such-and-such reasons, ordinary people's right to own and carry guns and other such weapons can't be taken away or restricted.

The people who wrote and ratified the 2nd, could have put in exceptions for "more than ten guns per household", or "Feds can't restrict guns but states still can", or "except for reasonable restrictions decided by legislators" or "except around schools or post offices", etc. But they didn't. And that omission was careful and deliberate.

The reasons why you should be able to own and carry a gun, are many. Knowing a victim may be carrying, can make a thief or mugger think twice. It can also make a corrupt sheriff who wants your property or your daughter, think twice. Or make a poisonous legislature who wants to put, say, all blacks into chains or all Jews into an oven, think twice if those blacks or Jews (and/or their friends) own guns and regularly have them with them.

But the main reason you should always have the right to own and carry guns, has to do with the basic reason the country was founded.

Hundreds of years ago, people started coming to this continent, mostly from Europe and adjacent areas, to get away from the restrictions and oppression placed on them by kings, feudal lords, etc. - often placed without their consent. They came here to get a fresh start, and eventually they came up with the idea of having a country where the citizen's decisions would be supreme. No king would tell him what to do, no politburo, no feudal lord. Even the government that was necessary, would be elected by the citizen - and could be kicked out by that citizen.

This idea was a first in the history of mankind's attempts to form large countries, outside of a few ancient and unwieldy democracies such as the one tried by ancient Greece. It was soon dubbed "The Great American Experiment" - the idea that no one could overrule the citizen's own decisions, other than government officials that the citizen could kick out if he didn't like them. In a word, the citizen would be sovereign - subject to no rule above his own.

The idea behind the Great American Experiment, assumed that individual people will do a better job running their own lives, making their own decisions, making mistakes, taking the consequences themselves, and learning from them; than an all-powerful government will do making those decisions for those people. And that includes making decisions on how and when to protect yourself and your loved ones... which necessarily includes YOU deciding what instrument(s) you will use to do it.

The freedom to own and carry any gun you want, is the ultimate expression of the sovereignity of the private citizen. Nobody (and that means NOBODY) can try to mess with him without facing the severest consequences. The sovereign citizen's own decisions, good or bad, are the ultimate determinant of his fate and his life. And his ability to own and carry deadly weapons, capable of harming or even killing those around him and subject ONLY to his own personal decision, is what makes sure it stays that way.

Though your right to carry must be absolute and inviolate, that doesn't mean you MUST carry, of course. Even where the right to carry a gun is not infringed, most people don't bother. But they must always have the RIGHT to carry if they decide they need to - a right no one may interfere with, and a decision no one can take away from them.

Even the possiblity that a man with bad judgment might use his weapon to unjustly threaten, injure or kill an innocent person, is not sufficient reason to take away EVERYONE'S right to own and carry such weapons. The Framers made the hard decision that even with the occasional (and inevitable) injury or death of an innocent person at the hands of a careless or criminal gun owner, the right of all people to be gun owners must be held sacrosanct... that society would be better off under those circumstances, than under a system where government could restrict citizens' rights to own and carry weapons. Partly because the Framers knew that the power to restrict that right, was ultimately the power to take it away completely - and the Framers knew that society would be worse off under those conditions, than under the conditions where an occasional mistake or criminal's act could result in an injury, possibly a fatal one.

Under the Great American Experiment, people were to be free to make their own decisions and take the consequences of them... including the bad or wrong decisions. Assigning third parties to make those decisions for them, would make them worse off, not better. And so government's only function, was restricted to only protecting those rights of the people. NOT making decisions to "help" them... even if some people thought govt "helping" people was a GOOD idea.

In a very real sense, the right to own and carry a gun is the ultimate manifestation of the Great American Experiment - the ultimate manifestation of freedom. Because it is the best way to ensure that you are left alone to make your own decisions, even if some else doesn't want you to. And only if you violate someone else's rights - say, by injuring or killing an innocent person, for whatever reason - can your own ultimate rights be taken away. Not because you MIGHT - that's not a good enough reason, because anybody might. Only because you DID.

And the Framers were careful to make the 2nd amendment part of the Supreme Law of the Land, to make sure it stayed that way.

Your right to keep and bear arms, isn't just for hunting, or sporting, or even defending yourself against burglars or rapists. It's to make sure that nobody - including government - can take away your ability and your RIGHT to make your own decisions and sink or swim with the consequences yourself.

And even if someone abuses his right to keep and bear arms, injuring or even killing an innocent person... it still remains that your right to have them - the right of ALL citizens to be sovereign - is far more important than the (relatively rare) tragedy caused by people who abuse that right. The loss of sovereignity of millions of citizens, does the country far more harm than the relatively rare tragedy.

That is why the right of the people to keep and bear arms, has been held inviolate for more than 200 years - despite 200 years of opportunities to change it by amending the Constitution and its 2nd amendment. The American people have repeatedly refused to make any changes to it - a trend that shows no signs of slackening, despite the occasional tragedy or even (very rare) mass murder by criminal or insane people.

The genius of the Second Amendment – and the Constitution overall – is that the Framers understood the doctrines of the rule of law and judicial review. Through this process a balance would be realized between the rights of the people and the powers afforded Congress by the Constitution to pursue sound governance as authorized by the people.

The Framers were wise to compose the Constitution as they did, to enshrine the fundamental principles of the Republic so that later generation could invoke those principles to find greater liberty of their own.

The Framers understood that laws once perceived to be ‘necessary and proper’ can over time serve only to restrict and undermine citizens’ civil liberties.

The people may, as expressed by their elected representatives in Congress, enact regulatory measures concerning firearms as they see fit. The people may also, should they perceive such measures as offensive to the Constitution, seek remedy in Federal court.

And once the Supreme Court makes a final determination as to the Constitutionality of a measure regulating firearms, that becomes the law of the land.
 
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I have had many groups peaceably assembled in large groups with guns. I don't see a conflict?

The right to keep and bear arms is even more important when the government is "uncomfortable" with the concept.
 
Little Acorn, the posters coming your way are authoritarians. They have an agenda and orders to promote it. They will deceive, deny and outright lie in order to argue against you. Each time you defeat one of their facile arguments, they will ignore defeat and suddenly produce two more facile arguments.

You are facing a mythological beast, the hydra, the many headed serpent, doing what serpents do best, twist and lie.

hydra.jpg.rZd.194740.jpg


You have been warned, for you tread a dangerous path.

Here's one example of how they deceive:

"There are no known instances in which a mass shooting has been prevented by an armed civilian."

Of course there aren't any known instances. If a mass shooting was PREVENTED, how could it be called a mass shooting? If no one died, why would it be worthy of media coverage? Why do these mass killers go only to Gun Free Zones? In another thread, I'm quoting Federalist No. 28 right to this buffoon and he's pretending that it doesn't even exist lololol and keeps asking "Do you know why the Federalist Papers were written."

However, I enjoyed your thread and believe it delivered conceptual material that I had yet been able to convey.
 
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Little Acorn, the posters coming your way are authoritarians. They have an agenda and orders to promote it. They will deceive, deny and outright lie in order to argue against you. Each time you defeat one of their facile arguments, they will ignore defeat and suddenly produce two more facile arguments.

You are facing a mythological beast, the hydra, the many headed serpent, doing what serpents do best, twist and lie.
Actually, most of the posters who have replied to this thread agree with the arguments made.

The ones that don't, mostly remain hidden, unsurprisingly.

I consider them to be closer to cockroaches. They reproduce quickly, each one only eats a little, but through their sheer numbers they manage to make a considerable mess out of what others have built. And when light is shined on them, they quickly scuttle for cover, and wait for the light to go away before re-emerging and repeating their tactics.
 
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