The Success of the Big Lie

[PoliticalChic]

Now, I know you are capable of a higher level of articulation than that...

I know you can read better than that. The list is quite specific:

...the real reason McCarthy came under attack is that he attempted to circumvent the criminal system, criminalize the 5th Ammendment, and add strong authoritative powers to the Federal Government...

Tell me exactly in that list you do not understand, or that you dispute.

I put forward that if you not understand that list, you are either not very well versed with McCarthy's tactics when badgering those subpoened by him, or that you are not that proficient at English.

Now, what exactly do you dispute in this list. That McCarthy is guilty of even one of them would be enough to number him among the blackest villians of American history. That he is guilty of all three makes him more than deserving of the scorn heaped upon him and more.

Again with the oh-so-vague "he attempted to circumvent the criminal system, criminalize the 5th Ammendment, and add strong authoritative powers to the Federal Government..."

Who? How did he "circumvent the criminal system, criminalize the 5th Ammendment, and add strong authoritative powers to the Federal Government"?

So, his crime is 'badgering'?
"...the blackest villians of American history..." by badgering? Badgering known Communists who attempted to give aid and comfort to a blood-soaked ideology?

Weak, very weak.

You are falling short of my expectatons.

No names, no specific 'crimes...'

Since you have written before, and are not a fool, the failure to admit the inadequacies of your argument must be due to a fear of loss of face.

Let me help you, since I appreciate your allowing me to provide the exposition that I wished, and I admit that I knew all along that any attack on the good Senator would fall flat.

This is because every one of my posts, documented all, are true and -as you proved, irrefutable.

He jailed no one.

He ruined no innocent lives.

He exposed, not Communists so much, as a weak and lax government.

As a result of his work and that of others, our government became stronger.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Thanks for playing.

Weak. Any illusions I had about you being a thinking and reasoning Conservative have been put to rest by this thread.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Thanks for playing.

Weak. Any illusions I had about you being a thinking and reasoning Conservative have been put to rest by this thread.

My documentation an background material to your vague and empty platitudes.

I have no problem leaving the final determination to any readers.

Cheer up, someday we'll find a subject that you know more about than I do.

Maybe.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I have no problem leaving the final determination to any readers.

Which in this case, means you give up. Cheer up, maybe one day you'll actually learn to reason.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So, McCarthy didn't find anyone more guilty of being a "red" than I, and that's only because of the peppers.

Now, fetch me another beer.

You are particularly dense this day.

A member of Communist Party in the code room of the Pentagon is fine with you?

And chew on this one, Owen Lattimore..

Actually simply identifying ONE SPY that McCarthy found would be sufficient.

Instead, you hold forth Owen Lattimore?

Why not use Benedict Arnold as another example to justify McCarthyism?

Before you set up your next exposition full of smoke-and-mirrors, be sure to fetch me another beer...the last you brought was flat.

You know, you're starting to look like a paid agent provocateur...allowing me to run rings around you-

cheap enough at a 'sammich, pepper and a beer.'

OK, but as for more names...

One of the lies about McCarty was that he “named names” ruining peoples’ lives with reckless accusations. Actually, McCarthy resisted releasing names to the public, except when Democrats forced him to name names. He raised the issue of loyalty risks working for the government rather than proven cases of espionage. His argument was that there are many reasons that a person should not be handling classified material, far less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt that one was a Soviet spy. McCarty said that he would attach names to the cases only in a closed committee hearing. When he presented his case against the State Department on the Senate floor, McCarthy described the loyalty risks anonymously as case #1, case #2, and so on.

Democrats demanded names. Democrat Senate Majority Leader Scott Lucas (D-Ill.) said: “I want to remain here until he names them!” (William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, McCarty and His Enemies, p. 70, quoting the Congressional Record). Democrat Withers of Kentucky: “I should like to ask the Senator what reason he has for not calling names?” The Democrats voted to compel him to name names in front of the press.

McCarthy: “The Senator from Illinois demanded that I furnish all names. I told him that so far as I was concerned, that would be improper…I have enough to convince me that either they are members of the Communist Party or they have given great aid to the Communists: I may be wrong. That is why I said that unless the Senate demanded that I do so, I would not submit this publicly, but I would submit it to any committee…in executive session. It is possible that some of these persons will get a clean bill of health.” ( same source).

No more beer.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I have no problem leaving the final determination to any readers.

Which in this case, means you give up. Cheer up, maybe one day you'll actually learn to reason.

I didn't 'give up'... don't you realize that you have been used for my purpose.

 

[Ravi]

PC is only second in ferocity to PI. And almost as rabid.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC is only second in ferocity to PI. And almost as rabid.

Thank you.

I'm guessing that you, also, felt that "every belonged to the CP should be shot." was a bit over the top.

 

[Ravi]

Yes, I apologize.

I do believe you think they should all be imprisoned though, and that is kind of sad. Heck, I don't even think Republicans are tea partiers should be imprisoned because they have different political beliefs than I have.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yes, I apologize.

I do believe you think they should all be imprisoned though, and that is kind of sad. Heck, I don't even think Republicans are tea partiers should be imprisoned because they have different political beliefs than I have.

Not at all; just educated.

 

[Samson]

You are particularly dense this day.

A member of Communist Party in the code room of the Pentagon is fine with you?

And chew on this one, Owen Lattimore..

Actually simply identifying ONE SPY that McCarthy found would be sufficient.

Instead, you hold forth Owen Lattimore?

Why not use Benedict Arnold as another example to justify McCarthyism?

Before you set up your next exposition full of smoke-and-mirrors, be sure to fetch me another beer...the last you brought was flat.

You know, you're starting to look like a paid agent provocateur...allowing me to run rings around you-

cheap enough at a 'sammich, pepper and a beer.'

OK, but as for more names...

One of the lies about McCarty was that he “named names” ruining peoples’ lives with reckless accusations. Actually, McCarthy resisted releasing names to the public, except when Democrats forced him to name names. He raised the issue of loyalty risks working for the government rather than proven cases of espionage. His argument was that there are many reasons that a person should not be handling classified material, far less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt that one was a Soviet spy. McCarty said that he would attach names to the cases only in a closed committee hearing. When he presented his case against the State Department on the Senate floor, McCarthy described the loyalty risks anonymously as case #1, case #2, and so on.

Democrats demanded names. Democrat Senate Majority Leader Scott Lucas (D-Ill.) said: “I want to remain here until he names them!” (William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, McCarty and His Enemies, p. 70, quoting the Congressional Record). Democrat Withers of Kentucky: “I should like to ask the Senator what reason he has for not calling names?” The Democrats voted to compel him to name names in front of the press.

McCarthy: “The Senator from Illinois demanded that I furnish all names. I told him that so far as I was concerned, that would be improper…I have enough to convince me that either they are members of the Communist Party or they have given great aid to the Communists: I may be wrong. That is why I said that unless the Senate demanded that I do so, I would not submit this publicly, but I would submit it to any committee…in executive session. It is possible that some of these persons will get a clean bill of health.” ( same source).

No more beer.

No more beer?

That's OK; I'm tired of you shaking them up and ruining the head.

The fact is, McCarthy found NO SPIES, NOTHING, NADA! And all he accomplished was ridiculously duplicious remarks like the one you have quoted:

"I have enough to convince me that either they are members of the Communist Party or they have given great aid to the Communists: I may be wrong...... It is possible that some of these persons will get a clean bill of health.”

If anyone on this board said this. you'd call them an idiot.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Actually simply identifying ONE SPY that McCarthy found would be sufficient.

Instead, you hold forth Owen Lattimore?

Why not use Benedict Arnold as another example to justify McCarthyism?

Before you set up your next exposition full of smoke-and-mirrors, be sure to fetch me another beer...the last you brought was flat.

You know, you're starting to look like a paid agent provocateur...allowing me to run rings around you-

cheap enough at a 'sammich, pepper and a beer.'

OK, but as for more names...

One of the lies about McCarty was that he “named names” ruining peoples’ lives with reckless accusations. Actually, McCarthy resisted releasing names to the public, except when Democrats forced him to name names. He raised the issue of loyalty risks working for the government rather than proven cases of espionage. His argument was that there are many reasons that a person should not be handling classified material, far less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt that one was a Soviet spy. McCarty said that he would attach names to the cases only in a closed committee hearing. When he presented his case against the State Department on the Senate floor, McCarthy described the loyalty risks anonymously as case #1, case #2, and so on.

Democrats demanded names. Democrat Senate Majority Leader Scott Lucas (D-Ill.) said: “I want to remain here until he names them!” (William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, McCarty and His Enemies, p. 70, quoting the Congressional Record). Democrat Withers of Kentucky: “I should like to ask the Senator what reason he has for not calling names?” The Democrats voted to compel him to name names in front of the press.

McCarthy: “The Senator from Illinois demanded that I furnish all names. I told him that so far as I was concerned, that would be improper…I have enough to convince me that either they are members of the Communist Party or they have given great aid to the Communists: I may be wrong. That is why I said that unless the Senate demanded that I do so, I would not submit this publicly, but I would submit it to any committee…in executive session. It is possible that some of these persons will get a clean bill of health.” ( same source).

No more beer.

No more beer?

That's OK; I'm tired of you shaking them up and ruining the head.

The fact is, McCarthy found NO SPIES, NOTHING, NADA! And all he accomplished was ridiculously duplicious remarks like the one you have quoted:

"I have enough to convince me that either they are members of the Communist Party or they have given great aid to the Communists: I may be wrong...... It is possible that some of these persons will get a clean bill of health.”

If anyone on this board said this. you'd call them an idiot.

I only call idiots idiot.

Idiot.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Funny, McCarthy was a US Senator highlighting a real problem: Communist infiltration of the government, he's not Jack Bauer at CTU.

He's just telling us we had a problem so bad that Gen Patton considered WWII a failure for the USA & GB because of how Eastern Europe fell under the heel of Alger Hiss's (and other at USState) masters

 

[Samson]

Funny, McCarthy was a US Senator highlighting a real problem: Communist infiltration of the government, he's not Jack Bauer at CTU.

He's just telling us we had a problem so bad that Gen Patton considered WWII a failure for the USA & GB because of how Eastern Europe fell under the heel of Alger Hiss's (and other at USState) masters

So, you think MCarthy, a politician, had no motive other than "to highligh" communists:

"I have enough to convince me that either they are members of the Communist Party or they have given great aid to the Communists: I may be wrong...... It is possible that some of these persons will get a clean bill of health.”

Apparently, you also think the best way "to highlight" guilty individuals, is to accuse any group, then let the chips fall where they may.

Where were YOU on 9/11/2001?

Please provide witnesses, so that we may interview them in a way that will allow them to connect the dots: knowing YOU will be the common denominator. BTW, we'll be bringing them in for questioning during working hours, and their employers will need to know why they need to leave.

Don't worry because we may be wrong: Its possible you may have a "Clean bill of health."

However, if I were you, I wouldn't expect any Christmas Cards this year.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Funny, McCarthy was a US Senator highlighting a real problem: Communist infiltration of the government, he's not Jack Bauer at CTU.

He's just telling us we had a problem so bad that Gen Patton considered WWII a failure for the USA & GB because of how Eastern Europe fell under the heel of Alger Hiss's (and other at USState) masters

So, you think MCarthy, a politician, had no motive other than "to highligh" communists:

"I have enough to convince me that either they are members of the Communist Party or they have given great aid to the Communists: I may be wrong...... It is possible that some of these persons will get a clean bill of health.”

Apparently, you also think the best way "to highlight" guilty individuals, is to accuse any group, then let the chips fall where they may.

Where were YOU on 9/11/2001?

Please provide witnesses, so that we may interview them in a way that will allow them to connect the dots: knowing YOU will be the common denominator. BTW, we'll be bringing them in for questioning during working hours, and their employers will need to know why they need to leave.

Don't worry because we may be wrong: Its possible you may have a "Clean bill of health."

However, if I were you, I wouldn't expect any Christmas Cards this year.

As you are clearly unfamiliar with the milieu of the war and post-war era attitudes toward Communism, a few indicia:

1. President Truman: “I like old Joe. Joe is a decent fellow.” (“Obituary: Stalin Rose From Czarist Oppression to Transform Russia into Mighty Socialist State,” NYTimes, March 6, 1953) And yet, President Truman, the third Vice President of President Roosevelt, was closer to being the ‘messiah’ of the United States then the current President.

2. If President Roosevelt had died one year earlier, Stalin would have immediately gained control of the US Presidency: Soviet dupe Henry Wallace, the Vice President, probably would have appointed Soviet spy Harry Dexter White to Sec’y of the Treasury, and Soviet spy Alger Hiss to Sec’y of State.

3. In 1948, at the apex of Moscow-directed subversion of US politics, FDR’s VP Henry Wallace, former Sec’y of Agriculture, to form the Communist-dominated and Soviet-backed “Progressive Party.” Of course, Wallace’s “Progressives” allowed not even the most peripheral criticism of Soviet aggression.(John Patrick Diggins, “Good Intentions,” The National Interest, Fall, 2000)

4. Henry Wallace, Vice President of the United States from 1940-1944: “America’s main enemy was Churchill and the British Empire.” He insisted that peace would be assured “if the United States guaranteed Stalin control of Eastern Europe.” (Ronad Radosh, “Progressively Worse,” The New Republic, June 12, 2000) When Stalin seized Czechoslovakia, Wallace sided with Stalin. Wallace Stalin blockaded Berlin, Wallace opposed the Berlin Airlift. After visiting a Soviet slave camp, Wallace enthusiastically described it a s a “combination TVA and Hudson Bay Company.” Ibid,

5. The progressives received one million votes. The Communist Party USA did not field a presidential candidate, and instead endorsed Wallace for President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1948)

6. Wallace met personally with KGB agents. (Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev, Haunted Woods, p. 119)
“…several prominent journalists, including H.L. Mencken and Dorothy Thompson, publicly charged that Wallace and the Progressives were under the covert control of Communists. Wallace was endorsed by the Communist Party (USA), and his subsequent refusal to publicly disavow any Communist support cost him the backing of many anti-Communist liberals and socialists…” (Henry A. Wallace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

In his diary, Wallace, whose view of the future of America required Soviet-style Communism, wrote that FDR had assured him that he was a few years ahead of his time, but that his vision for American would “inevitably come.” (John Patrick Diggins, “Good Intentions,” The National Interest, Fall, 2000)

7. This is the political landscape when Senator Joseph McCarthy decided to show America the danger that the Democratic Party found perfectly acceptable. I hope you begin to understand how close we were to the precipice.

 

[Samson]

Funny, McCarthy was a US Senator highlighting a real problem: Communist infiltration of the government, he's not Jack Bauer at CTU.

He's just telling us we had a problem so bad that Gen Patton considered WWII a failure for the USA & GB because of how Eastern Europe fell under the heel of Alger Hiss's (and other at USState) masters

So, you think MCarthy, a politician, had no motive other than "to highligh" communists:

"I have enough to convince me that either they are members of the Communist Party or they have given great aid to the Communists: I may be wrong...... It is possible that some of these persons will get a clean bill of health.”

Apparently, you also think the best way "to highlight" guilty individuals, is to accuse any group, then let the chips fall where they may.

Where were YOU on 9/11/2001?

Please provide witnesses, so that we may interview them in a way that will allow them to connect the dots: knowing YOU will be the common denominator. BTW, we'll be bringing them in for questioning during working hours, and their employers will need to know why they need to leave.

Don't worry because we may be wrong: Its possible you may have a "Clean bill of health."

However, if I were you, I wouldn't expect any Christmas Cards this year.

As you are clearly unfamiliar with the milieu of the war and post-war era attitudes toward Communism, a few indicia:

If President Roosevelt had died one year earlier, Stalin would have immediately gained control of the US Presidency: Soviet dupe Henry Wallace, the Vice President, probably would have appointed Soviet spy Harry Dexter White to Sec’y of the Treasury, and Soviet spy Alger Hiss to Sec’y of State..

You should save your "indicia," for the Wild Conspiracy Theory forum.

I wouldn't doubt you could also find similar post-war era attitudes that support the possibility of a Martian immediately gaining control of the US Presidentcy that "probably" would have appointed little green men to run the Treasury.

Your arguement has become as flat as that swill you've been serving as beer.

 

[LuckyDan]

Usually when I see McCarthy's name mentioned, it is in connection with the Hollywood blacklist, which he had nothing to do with.

There were CPUSA members in DC and in Hollywood. They were sneaking, lying, conniving, weasly bullies. That they crumbled in the face of opposition, as much from Ronald Reagan as Joe McCarthy, does not make them harmless.

 

[Samson]

Usually when I see McCarthy's name mentioned, it is in connection with the Hollywood blacklist, which he had nothing to do with.

There were CPUSA members in DC and in Hollywood. They were sneaking, lying, conniving, weasly bullies. That they crumbled in the face of opposition, as much from Ronald Reagan as Joe McCarthy, does not make them harmless.

"Sneaking, lying, conniving, weasly bullies" in DC?

Surely you jest.

 

[LuckyDan]

I'm dead serious. And please, don't call me...oh screw it.

 

[Samson]

I'm dead serious. And please, don't call me...oh screw it.

SHIRLEY!!!

I knew you'd bite!!!!