Walking in the morning while being black.

[Foxfyre]

Under our laws here in the United States, No one is required to show an ID to a cop if stopped and asked.

We are not required to carry papers of identification on us, to show the Gestapo when asked....

The police still have a job to do which is to serve and protect. Imagine if that boy had been yours and the cops thought the situation peculiar enough to question the guy, what might have otherwise happened to that child. As it turned out the kid was his, but if the situation had been different. . .

I do not blame the officer at all for questioning the man. And the cops were polite and friendly and non threatening in the initial contact. It was only when the guy was not polite or friendly and behaved even more suspiciously that there was any kind of confrontation.

No we do not have to carry our ID when we go walking. But we are required to have our driver's license and registration and insurance information in the car with us and to produce them when requested. I have to provide ID when I go to the courthouse, go to the FBI building here, when I file a police report or ask for one, etc.

If the officer had asked me for ID when I was out walking--maybe I fit the description of somebody reported committing a crime or something--I would give him my name, tell him I lived nearby and we could go to my house to get the ID. I do not see that violating my rights in any way.

I do question whether taking the guy down to cuff him was necessary but then I don't know all the police protocol/policy in such situations either. Having police officers among friends and family, I am very aware they are allowed to protect themselves too.

 

[GLASNOST]

..... He was arrested for acting suspiciously,

Taking an early morning walk with your son is not acting suspiciously.

refusing to give his name. .

He did not refuse to give his name because he wasn't given the opportunity to refuse. If you want to debate that fact with me I suggest you first look at the video again or at least check the law.

 

[GLASNOST]

All they asked for was his ID. if he actually didn’t have it, then there is no reason to resist. Just cooperate.

He did cooperate. He didn't have his ID with him and that's what he told the cops. He didn't even lie. You cannot resist showing your ID if you don't have it.

 

[GLASNOST]

Under our laws here in the United States, No one is required to show an ID to a cop if stopped and asked.

We are not required to carry papers of identification on us, to show the Gestapo when asked....

Oh shit! You want to play dirty by stating facts and the law!

 

[Mac-7]

no they do not,,

only if a crime has been committed can they do that,,

they can ask but they cant demand,,

they sure the fuck cant beat up an innocent man in front of his child,,

they swore an oath to this and he pissed all over that oath,,

you may be thinking of nazi germany where they could stop anyone and demand papers,,

Ok, you’re so smart

They question the man about the child and his answers are not credible

For the protection of the child the cops have to verify the man’s id and check out his story

Otherwise anything that happens to the child is the cop’s responsibility

 

[GLASNOST]

You say something?

I think I did.

 

[Mac-7]

That’s where you are wrong.

No, you are wrong

The police swear to serve and protect

 

[Care4all]

The police still have a job to do which is to serve and protect. Imagine if that boy had been yours and the cops thought the situation peculiar enough to question the guy, what might have otherwise happened to that child. As it turned out the kid was his, but if the situation had been different. . .

I do not blame the officer at all for questioning the man. And the cops were polite and friendly and non threatening in the initial contact. It was only when the guy was not polite or friendly and behaved even more suspiciously that there was any kind of confrontation.

No we do not have to carry our ID when we go walking. But we are required to have our driver's license and registration and insurance information in the car with us and to produce them when requested. I have to provide ID when I go to the courthouse, go to the FBI building here, when I file a police report or ask for one, etc.

If the officer had asked me for ID when I was out walking--maybe I fit the description of somebody reported committing a crime or something--I would give him my name, tell him I lived nearby and we could go to my house to get the ID. I do not see that violating my rights in any way.

I do question whether taking the guy down to cuff him was necessary but then I don't know all the police protocol/policy in such situations either. Having police officers among friends and family, I am very aware they are allowed to protect themselves too.

But if you are not driving your car, and were not driving your car, you are not required to have your driver's licence inside it.

NO ONE is required under our laws to show a cop, a police officer, ID if he asks. If you need ID for other situations, matters none, to this situation....

Even if the cop is arresting you, with actual probable cause of committing a crime....you are not required to show him any form of identification....you are required to tell him your name though, under those circumstances!

Was there PROBABLE CAUSE that a crime was committed? Legal, probable cause, that a court would accept?

(I can't watch the video, not enough internet juice up here in the Woods)

 

[Foxfyre]

Taking an early morning walk with your son is not acting suspiciously.

He did not refuse to give his name because he wasn't given the opportunity to refuse. If you want to debate that fact with me I suggest you first look at the video again or at least check the law.

The cop asked him for his name and address and the man said 'I don't know but. . ."
And that's when the cop became more aggressive. I do question whether even the temporary arrest was necessary.

One thing I thought rather odd was when the cop asked the guy if the boy was his son, I think I would have instinctively asked the boy, is this your dad? The cop didn't do that.

All parties in this confrontation didn't behave as well as they could I think. But I don't think the cops were out of line to question the man under the circumstances as they existed.

 

[Mac-7]

But if you are not driving your car, and were not driving your car, you are not required to have your driver's licence inside it.

NO ONE is required under our laws to show a cop, a police officer, ID if he asks. If you need ID for other situations, matters none, to this situation....

Even if the cop is arresting you, with actual probable cause of committing a crime....you are not required to show him any form of identification....you are required to tell him your name though, under those circumstances!

Was there PROBABLE CAUSE that a crime was committed? Legal, probable cause, that a court would accept?

(I can't watch the video, not enough internet juice up here in the Woods)

And if that child does not belong to that man and later turns up raped and murdered libs like you can sluff it off as just the price we have to pay to protect the rights of criminals

 

[Care4all]

And if that child does not belong to that man and later turns up raped and murdered libs like you can sluff it off as just the price we have to pay to protect the rights of criminals

I'm pretty certain a skilled, trained cop, could discern that, and know how to handle it, without breaking the law himself and squashing another citizen's right to move freely...

 

[GLASNOST]

... if you are not driving your car, and were not driving your car, you are not required to have your driver's licence inside it.

Correct.

NO ONE is required under our laws to show a cop, a police officer, ID if he asks. If you need ID for other situations, matters none, to this situation....

Exactly. I assume you need to show that you are licensed to operate a motor vehicle and you need an ID of authorization to purchase a firearm. But I not believe you need a license to put one foot in front of the other in a public place.

 

[GLASNOST]

The cop asked him for his name and address and the man said 'I don't know but. . ."
And that's when the cop became more aggressive. .

- "Give me your name."
-- "I don't know but ..... I don't think the law requires me to give you my name."

Do you (or anyone else) see that as the need for an agressive reaction by the cops? Did the guy refuse to provide his name? No, HE DID NOT. Does the law require him to give his name? What do I know? What do you know?

 

[Foxfyre]

- "Give me your name."
-- "I don't know but ..... I don't think the law requires me to give you my name."

Do you (or anyone else) see that as the need for an agressive reaction by the cops? Did the guy refuse to provide his name? No, HE DID NOT. Does the law require him to give his name? What do I know? What do you know?

Again, I saw probable cause for the cops to check the guy out. In that case, if the guy was actually just out for a walk with his son, there was no reason to be confrontational with the cop. All he had to do was give the cop his name, explain he didn't carry his wallet when he went for walks but had the ID at his home nearby.

I'm pretty sure if the guy had not been defensive and confrontational with the cops which made the situation even more suspicious in their eyes, there would have been no arrest, no problem. And he did resist arrest which is a no no in all 50 states and DC.

Were the cops overly aggressive? I don't know. Did the man unnecessarily encourage more confrontation from the cops? Yes he did.

Again it is highly unusual for an adult to be out walking with a young kid when it is still dark outside. If the guy had been kidnapping my son or had something bad in mind, I would be eternally grateful for the cops checking him out.

 

[Foxfyre]

But if you are not driving your car, and were not driving your car, you are not required to have your driver's licence inside it.

NO ONE is required under our laws to show a cop, a police officer, ID if he asks. If you need ID for other situations, matters none, to this situation....

Even if the cop is arresting you, with actual probable cause of committing a crime....you are not required to show him any form of identification....you are required to tell him your name though, under those circumstances!

Was there PROBABLE CAUSE that a crime was committed? Legal, probable cause, that a court would accept?

(I can't watch the video, not enough internet juice up here in the Woods)

The cops were initially friendly, courteous, non threatening. And you're right about not having to show ID BUT a normal person would have in that particular circumstance. But I'm pretty sure all he had to do was tell the cop his name, that he didn't take his wallet on his walks, but he lived nearby and had his ID there if they really needed to see it. Instead he became agitated and belligerent that no doubt made them more suspicious and then he resisted arrest which is a no no in all 50 states and DC.

Could the cops have handled it better? Yes.
Could the man have handled it better? Without doubt.

But again it is highly unusual for a man to be out walking with a 6 yr old when it is still dark outside, especially in the area visible in the video which appeared to be garages or storage units and away from residential areas. I think the cops were justified in questioning him. And gain, if he was kidnapping my son or had some bad intentions in mind, I would be eternally grateful to those cops for checking him out.

 

[GLASNOST]

Again, I saw probable cause for the cops to check the guy out.

They did by asking for his name and ID. Job done ... or should have been.

In that case, if the guy was actually just out for a walk with his son,

"Actually"? What does that mean? Please explain that for me.

there was no reason to be confrontational with the cop.

what part of his reply was "confrontational"? You cannot point it out because it didn't happen.

All he had to do was give the cop his name

Why? Law doesn't require it. You've heard the expression, "I know my rights". Is it a bad think to know your rights?

, explain he didn't carry his wallet when he went for walks but had the ID at his home nearby.

That's exactly what he did, for God's sake!

I'm pretty sure if the guy had not been defensive and confrontational with the cops

Where do you get these ideas of "defensive" and "confrontational"? Do they just pop into your head and you think it would be cool to use them in a sentence?

Again it is highly unusual for an adult to be out walking with a young kid when it is still dark outside.

Go back to sleep and when you wake up you can tell us about your latest dream.

 

[GLASNOST]

... all he had to do was tell the cop his name, ...

What are you talking about? He didn't refuse to give his name.