The tie that saved Rome. Do Western nations need a State Religion?

[GreatestIam]

Because Christianity has been a major cultural element of European countries up to the present although less so nowadays, it would be a radical political policy to ignore it. Given the amount of trouble and strife sectarianism has caused in Europe, it would be reasonable or modern European states to be secular such as French republicanism but as long as citizens belong to churches, such a policy would need to be strong, persistent, and official.

Absolutely, as all the implementation and enforcement of laws should be and as all country's that have outlawed Islam or some of it's practices do.

It is that or do as is happening in England where they are allowing Sharia courts and ending with Muslim women being taken advantage of because they are not going to England's courts.

England's citizens should be outraged that there are two sets of standards in their country.

As to Christianity, no extra regard should be given it and none would be if it is their moral tenets that are being checked for morality, or the lack of.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

It did all of that, no argument, but it also led to the Western ideology that we now embrace as the best that we have created to date.

If Islam were to take over, learning will again be suppressed and forgotten and their own Inquisitions and Jihads will be the order of that horrible day.

Regards
DL

Our western ideology is based in Rome but the best of it was the result of the reformation and the renaissance. That is where ideals of freedom of thought, humanitarianism, science and rationality became the cornerstone of our civilization.

I do not fear Islam taking over, it may take another hundred years but it will be rendered toothless or be destroyed like everything else that has challenged western civilization.

Going to a state religion will make Islam toothless today and our children and grandchildren will not have to suffer them for another 100 years.

Why would you want to pass the fight to them instead of stepping up yourself?

Regards
DL

Depends on what you mean by "fight". History has shown that ideas can only be fought by better ideas. Trying to fight ideas by force of arms only seems to make it stronger. Cultural conflicts are not won by the impatient or by voilence, they are a long march that practically always involves generations of people dedicated to peaceful resolution rather than violent inflammation of generations long resentments.

The fighting I propose would be done with words and under the government umbrella that would be guiding the debates to see which religion had the best ideology for us and that would be compatible with the more moral secular laws that we presently have.

If we do not do such, then as history has shown, we will eventually have to fight in a more physical and lethal way. The possibility and reasons for Inquisitions and Jihads must be taken from religions.

Regards
DL

We should respond to threats as they arise and leave theological discussions and motivations out of it. Neither religion has the answer to how differing religions should live in peace. Actually they do but few zealots give credence to commandments that we should try to get along.

I disagree. Prevention is better than looking for a cure after the fact.

" leave theological discussions and motivations out of it."

I also disagree on this. If an ideology is not compatible with a host nation, it should have it's new citizens know it from the get go. If the were the case in England, then the depressing rise in FGM stats might not have happened at all.

"Neither religion has the answer to how differing religions should live in peace."

This is true and that is why governments should step in and teach those immoral religions that they had better or be banned.

Law and order is a government responsibility and they are the ones who can end gang wars.

We have been giving immoral religions respect that they are not earning and should stop doing so.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is respect evil.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

No....we need to end it....it's called liberalism....

I doubt we can end religions but do think it our duty to help them evolve to a better and more moral form.

Regards
DL

Then the next question becomes, can we survive the state religion of liberalism as it devolves.....

Yes.

Liberalism can conserve what is good of the past while seeking better moral laws for the future.

You forget, with your right and left political thinking, that a bird with one wing stronger than the other cannot fly very well. There has to be a balance.

Regards
DL

Actually, there is nothing complicated with left and right thinking, such binary thinking gave us the strongest principle of all, right and wrong, which spans conventional religions and all civilizations....for example, looking at liberal and conservative, liberal gave us slavery, conservative ended slavery.....

A bird that is right with no wings will always be better that a bird that is wrong with both wings.....

You have your right and left confused.

Fundamental right wing religions promoted slavery while the liberal left opposed it.

Think Bible Belt.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

The survival of Western civilization is not in danger.

Our European allies and U.N. members would disagree.



Regards
DL

No they don't. It's clear conservatives are easily scared into flailing their arms and thinking the sky is falling. The sky isn't falling and there is no mortal threat to Western Civilization. A handful of crazies isn't going to win anything. Germany had a population of 70 million, a 6 million man army, 25,000 of the best tanks on Earth, double the size of any other airforce with superior aircraft, unlimited financial assets, and an arms industry that could produce tens of thousands of war goods a year. Add in Japan.

Both were utterly defeated. YOU are terrified of 20,000 crazies with AK-47s. One thing is clear, YOU are terrified. The rest of the world isn't. Go view the video of how the French people came out into the street right after the attack in Paris.

Stop letting the losers of the world make you hide under your blanky. They can't win anything. All they can do is make people scared, like you.

Fear is not what drives me. Seeing the Western Ideology that so many died for being challenged by an immoral one is what is motivating me.

Your analysis of Germany has nothing to do with the present situation.

Regards
DL

 

[IsaacNewton]

The survival of Western civilization is not in danger.

Our European allies and U.N. members would disagree.



Regards
DL

No they don't. It's clear conservatives are easily scared into flailing their arms and thinking the sky is falling. The sky isn't falling and there is no mortal threat to Western Civilization. A handful of crazies isn't going to win anything. Germany had a population of 70 million, a 6 million man army, 25,000 of the best tanks on Earth, double the size of any other airforce with superior aircraft, unlimited financial assets, and an arms industry that could produce tens of thousands of war goods a year. Add in Japan.

Both were utterly defeated. YOU are terrified of 20,000 crazies with AK-47s. One thing is clear, YOU are terrified. The rest of the world isn't. Go view the video of how the French people came out into the street right after the attack in Paris.

Stop letting the losers of the world make you hide under your blanky. They can't win anything. All they can do is make people scared, like you.

Fear is not what drives me. Seeing the Western Ideology that so many died for being challenged by an immoral one is what is motivating me.

Your analysis of Germany has nothing to do with the present situation.

Regards
DL

Riiight.

 

[GreatestIam]

Do you see the mainstream religions as moral?

In some respects, but I find the notion of a theocratic state to be immoral and dangerous, even moreso than the state already happens to be.

Who said anything about a theocratic state?

I am speaking of secular democracies dumping immoral religions for a moral one.

Is England a theocratic state just because they have a state religion?
If you thing so, you might want to let the Queen know.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Do you see the mainstream religions as moral?

In some respects,

A damn site few as compared to their homophobic and misogynous ways.

You might have noted that secular law has bested anything that the mainstream religions have to offer.

You respect what does not deserve respect, unless you like that priests and imams lie to their sheeple daily.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

...Take that Christian out of your words above and I am all in...

Nahhhhh... you'll just be on the outside, looking in, which is fine with the rest of us, who don't share that perspective.

You like their homophobic and misogynous perspective do you?

Or is it their genocidal son murdering God you like?

Regards
DL

 

[Onyx]

You might have noted that secular law has bested anything that the mainstream religions have to offer.

I believe the best law is no law, religious or secular.

Laws mandating secular policies tend to actually discriminate against religion, and therefore are not secular.

 

[Kondor3]

...Take that Christian out of your words above and I am all in...

Nahhhhh... you'll just be on the outside, looking in, which is fine with the rest of us, who don't share that perspective.

You like their homophobic and misogynous perspective do you?

Or is it their genocidal son murdering God you like?

Regards
DL

That is not their perspective.

It is not homophobia to condemn sexual deviancy and perversion (a.k.a. homosexuality)...

And, in what way, did Jesus of Nazareth teach genocide or child-murder?

You seem to have the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth confused with the Morality Play and Historical Novel known as the Old Testament.

It was replaced by the New for a reason.

And even the New departs from the Core Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, on a number of occasions.

 

[Onyx]

Homophobia has lost its true meaning: Fear of homosexuality.

 

[owebo]

Homophobia has lost its true meaning: Fear of homosexuality.

Now it's just fear of fascism....and rightly so.....