The UCLA shooting shows how silly opponents of campus carry are....

[2aguy]

So I am pointing out how wrong he is.....and how 8,124 gun murders committed 90% of the time by felons with long criminal records who shoot other criminals 70-80% of the time who are also convicted criminals, are not normal, law abiding gun owners who just snapped one day and murdered only because they got mad and had a gun....

Yet how come every time we are talking about this issue, it's never the guy with the long criminal record.

Lanza, Holmes, Cho, Roof, Loughner, Mercer - none of these guys fit into the paradigm you put down of the criminal shooting other criminals.

It's usually a crazy person who was able to get a gun too easily shooting innocent people who just happened to be in their way.

Out of how many mentally ill people into the country?


Out of how many gun owners in the country?


The nut who shoots,people is a tiny...tiny number.....and even if you made it illegal for them to have guns...they would still get guns.....

Our problem is not crazy people shooting people in public places....there were 8,124 gun minders in 2014...less than 40 were by crazy people...the rest were by criminals who are already on lists that say they can't own or carry guns....so even when we have lists of prohibited people...they still get guns......

 

[2aguy]

Even if the professor had been armed the outcome would almost certainly have been the same. When a lunatic wishes to murder and then commit suicide they have nothing to lose and so will nearly 100% of the time be successful. An armed campus is only useful against active shooters. The individual murder/suicide cases would not be affected the majority of the time.

Since an armed civilian has NEVER stopped an active shooter, what's the point? In fact, the only cases of active shooters being stopped are usually by people who know what they are doing- security or police officers. But more often than not they stop themselves - suicide, surrender or just ran out of bullets/people to kill.

But oddly, countries where gun ownership is treated like a privilege and not a right rarely seem to have this problem

Wrong....I have listed the times armed civilians have stopped mass shooters...over and over again...you are lying...

And you are half right...they stop when they face any armed resistance...even armed resistance by civilians.......they either surrender, least likely, or suicide.........that is why gun free zones are stupid.....mass shooters,target gun free zones because they know no one will be armed and ready to shoot back........sandy hook, the Colorado theater shooter, the first San Bernadino shooter...and others have stated they picked fun free zones....Samdy hook could have shot up the middle school or the high school...but they both had armed security, the elementary school did not...

 

[2aguy]

So I am pointing out how wrong he is.....and how 8,124 gun murders committed 90% of the time by felons with long criminal records who shoot other criminals 70-80% of the time who are also convicted criminals, are not normal, law abiding gun owners who just snapped one day and murdered only because they got mad and had a gun....

Yet how come every time we are talking about this issue, it's never the guy with the long criminal record.

Lanza, Holmes, Cho, Roof, Loughner, Mercer - none of these guys fit into the paradigm you put down of the criminal shooting other criminals.

It's usually a crazy person who was able to get a gun too easily shooting innocent people who just happened to be in their way.

If you look at the Mother Jones mass shooting record...where they track mass shootings going back to 1982.....

The highest number of killed in one shooting was by the Virginia tech shooter...33.....and so since 1982.... The highest number was 33 but that is nowhere near the number of criminals who shot other criminals...keeping in mind that in 2014 that number was close to 8,124..

And the 33 number...is the only time a mass shooting got that high in over 30 years....the majority are no more than 4...and less than 10....I will post the numbers when I get a chance.....

So again..nuts shooting people is not a problem that requires taking 357,000,000 guns from the people who own them...people use them legally for self defense, sport, hunting and collecting.....

Again..nuts who shoot people are not the problem...inner city thug culture is our problem...

 

[JoeB131]

So, are you simply lying or did you not bother to even check? I will guess you're lying based on prior experience with you.

10 Cases Where An Armed Citizen Took Down An Active Shooter

Guy do you really want to go there... Okay, lets.

Case one and two didn't involve cases in the US. The y happened in France and South Africa... and there were fatalities.

Case 3 leaves out the part about the guy involved being a reserve deputy. Funny they ommited that part.

Case 4 on your list involved a principle that was an Army Reserve officer. Again, a detail they left out for some reason.

To be fair, they did admit the following in the next three.

Case 5 on your list was a trained security guard.

Case 6 was an ex police officer

Case 7 was an off duty police officer.

Case 8 was an off-duty police officer (And they omitted that part again)

Case 9 they didn't give the person's name.

Case 10 is from 1915!!!

So, yes, gun violence CAN be stopped by well-trained peace officers who can sometimes limit fatalities.

But the guy like yourself who owns a gun because you are scared? Not so much.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong....I have listed the times armed civilians have stopped mass shooters...over and over again...you are lying...

And hose cases never hold up to scrutiny. We usually find out the "civilian" was an off duty cop or an army reservist.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong....I have listed the times armed civilians have stopped mass shooters...over and over again...you are lying...

And hose cases never hold up to scrutiny. We usually find out the "civilian" was an off duty cop or an army reservist.

Wrong...I never lost the off duty cop cases...just because they will be disqualified by you guys........

 

[JoeB131]

If.

Again..nuts who shoot people are not the problem...inner city thug culture is our problem...

It's not MY problem. Maybe its Your problem.

The problem of the mass shooter is pretty easy to solve. Don't let crazy people buy guns because it's a "right".

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong...I never lost the off duty cop cases...just because they will be disqualified by you guys........

West wall just posted his list, and 6 of them were cops or soliders...

 

[Conservative65]

If.

Again..nuts who shoot people are not the problem...inner city thug culture is our problem...

It's not MY problem. Maybe its Your problem.

The problem of the mass shooter is pretty easy to solve. Don't let crazy people buy guns because it's a "right".

Who gets to determine whether or not someone is crazy? Do you think you should make that determination?

 

[2aguy]

So, are you simply lying or did you not bother to even check? I will guess you're lying based on prior experience with you.

10 Cases Where An Armed Citizen Took Down An Active Shooter

Guy do you really want to go there... Okay, lets.

Case one and two didn't involve cases in the US. The y happened in France and South Africa... and there were fatalities.

Case 3 leaves out the part about the guy involved being a reserve deputy. Funny they ommited that part.

Case 4 on your list involved a principle that was an Army Reserve officer. Again, a detail they left out for some reason.

To be fair, they did admit the following in the next three.

Case 5 on your list was a trained security guard.

Case 6 was an ex police officer

Case 7 was an off duty police officer.

Case 8 was an off-duty police officer (And they omitted that part again)

Case 9 they didn't give the person's name.

Case 10 is from 1915!!!

So, yes, gun violence CAN be stopped by well-trained peace officers who can sometimes limit fatalities.

But the guy like yourself who owns a gun because you are scared? Not so much.

Case 4.... So if he was a cook in the reserves that makes him a trained navy SEAL?


Case 7...... She was no longer a cop...hadn't been for years.....

 

[2aguy]

If.

Again..nuts who shoot people are not the problem...inner city thug culture is our problem...

It's not MY problem. Maybe its Your problem.

The problem of the mass shooter is pretty easy to solve. Don't let crazy people buy guns because it's a "right".

No...the solution is to outlaw gun free zones..then mass shooters will stop shooting people in them.....

 

[2aguy]

If.

Again..nuts who shoot people are not the problem...inner city thug culture is our problem...

It's not MY problem. Maybe its Your problem.

The problem of the mass shooter is pretty easy to solve. Don't let crazy people buy guns because it's a "right".

Who gets to determine whether or not someone is crazy? Do you think you should make that determination?

That's easy...he thinks if you want to own or carry a gun...you are crazy and should be arrested....

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

When more college students are asking to carry guns for self defense...the usual suspects step up...left wing professors who talk out of their asses about guns....

These left wing anti freedom, anti gunners say that allowing students to carry guns for self defense will make the professor less safe....because if the student gets mad...they can simply shoot the professor....

Do you see how stupid this argument is in light of the UCLA shooting?

UCLA is currently a gun free zone.....normal, law abiding people can't carry their legally owned guns onto the campus......

This guy carried his gun onto the campus and murdered his professor......in a gun free zone....in an extreme gun controlled city....in an extreme gun control state.....

So the guy out to murder his professor......did it....

Normal gun owners......won't.....

No, it shows how stupid the thread premise is – as there’s no ‘evidence’ that citizens carrying concealed weapons act as a ‘deterrent’ to such shootings; the thread is also ignorant of the fact that students, faculty, and others are carrying concealed firearms even though contrary to official policy.

 

[2aguy]

So, are you simply lying or did you not bother to even check? I will guess you're lying based on prior experience with you.

10 Cases Where An Armed Citizen Took Down An Active Shooter

Guy do you really want to go there... Okay, lets.

Case one and two didn't involve cases in the US. The y happened in France and South Africa... and there were fatalities.

Case 3 leaves out the part about the guy involved being a reserve deputy. Funny they ommited that part.

Case 4 on your list involved a principle that was an Army Reserve officer. Again, a detail they left out for some reason.

To be fair, they did admit the following in the next three.

Case 5 on your list was a trained security guard.

Case 6 was an ex police officer

Case 7 was an off duty police officer.

Case 8 was an off-duty police officer (And they omitted that part again)

Case 9 they didn't give the person's name.

Case 10 is from 1915!!!

So, yes, gun violence CAN be stopped by well-trained peace officers who can sometimes limit fatalities.

But the guy like yourself who owns a gun because you are scared? Not so much.

Case 9 was the Doctor, a psychiatrist, who violated the hospital gun free zone policy and brought his gun to the hospital anyway.......so you are, of course wrong.......not a cop, not a navy SEAL........

 

[2aguy]

When more college students are asking to carry guns for self defense...the usual suspects step up...left wing professors who talk out of their asses about guns....

These left wing anti freedom, anti gunners say that allowing students to carry guns for self defense will make the professor less safe....because if the student gets mad...they can simply shoot the professor....

Do you see how stupid this argument is in light of the UCLA shooting?

UCLA is currently a gun free zone.....normal, law abiding people can't carry their legally owned guns onto the campus......

This guy carried his gun onto the campus and murdered his professor......in a gun free zone....in an extreme gun controlled city....in an extreme gun control state.....

So the guy out to murder his professor......did it....

Normal gun owners......won't.....

No, it shows how stupid the thread premise is – as there’s no ‘evidence’ that citizens carrying concealed weapons act as a ‘deterrent’ to such shootings; the thread is also ignorant of the fact that students, faculty, and others are carrying concealed firearms even though contrary to official policy.

Yea there is.......the shooters say so....moron...

 

[2aguy]

Wrong...I never lost the off duty cop cases...just because they will be disqualified by you guys........

West wall just posted his list, and 6 of them were cops or soliders...

Here you go......

And what type of soldier were they......? Cooks......Clerks...not every soldier is in the infantry or a Green Beret...and if they aren't they aren't even touching their rifles more than once a year......and unless they are on a crew served weapon or an officer they don't touch pistols.....so your point is stupid...

Some details to help you make your guess....

Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston church shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ( 9 dead)

vs.

Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

**********

No guns: 15 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)


Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)


Temple massacre has some Sikhs mulling gun ownership

The president of the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin had only a butter knife on hand, which he used to fight the gunman. He was killed, but his heroic actions were credited for slowing the shooter. Guns were not allowed in the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin.

“No guns [were] allowed in the temple,” Kulbir Singh, an attendee of the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin, told FoxNews.com. “Everyone knows that it’s not allowed, anywhere in the temple.”

 

[2aguy]

Wrong...I never lost the off duty cop cases...just because they will be disqualified by you guys........

West wall just posted his list, and 6 of them were cops or soliders...

Tell me this pastor was an undercover Navy SEAL...


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

POINCIANA --

Osceola County deputies now say a man shot at a church near Poinciana had fired shots at the church's pastor, who returned fire with his own weapon, hitting the man.

Deputies responded shortly after 8 a.m. to the Living Water Fellowship, at 4101 Pleasant Hill Road. There they spoke with witnesses and those involved, who said a meeting was taking place to fire Benjamin Parangan, a maintenance worker at the church.

According to deputies, Parangan pulled out a handgun and fired multiple shots at Pastor Terry Howell, who took out his own weapon and fired back, striking Parangan.

Howell was not injured, but Parangan was taken to Osceola Regional Medical Center in critical condition.

Deputies said several church employees witnessed the incident and gave similar statements.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................

And as we all know, gun violence never occurs outside "gun free zones".

Mass shootings don't...mass shooters choose gun free zones......thugs look for their thug victims.....

Wong again, moron.

There’s also no ‘evidence’ that mass shooters make a ‘decision’ to commit their crimes in ‘gun free zones’; indeed, most have no idea they're committing crimes in such a ‘zone.’

And again: citizens often carry concealed firearms wherever they so desire, including venues where guns ‘aren’t allowed.’

What part of concealed carry do you not understand – they’re carrying guns concealed, no one knows they have guns, including anyone who is supposed to ‘enforce’ a ‘no gun’ policy.

 

[2aguy]

This woman hadn't been a cop for years........


6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

She was a volunteer as a security guard because she had a gun..... who had been a cop but hadn't been a cop for years.......

 

[2aguy]

When more college students are asking to carry guns for self defense...the usual suspects step up...left wing professors who talk out of their asses about guns....

These left wing anti freedom, anti gunners say that allowing students to carry guns for self defense will make the professor less safe....because if the student gets mad...they can simply shoot the professor....

Do you see how stupid this argument is in light of the UCLA shooting?

UCLA is currently a gun free zone.....normal, law abiding people can't carry their legally owned guns onto the campus......

This guy carried his gun onto the campus and murdered his professor......in a gun free zone....in an extreme gun controlled city....in an extreme gun control state.....

So the guy out to murder his professor......did it....

Normal gun owners......won't.....

No, it shows how stupid the thread premise is – as there’s no ‘evidence’ that citizens carrying concealed weapons act as a ‘deterrent’ to such shootings; the thread is also ignorant of the fact that students, faculty, and others are carrying concealed firearms even though contrary to official policy.

here you go moron........all of these mass shooters who left notes or made confessions to police.....specifically targeted gun free zones...moron...

FBI: Dearborn Heights ISIS supporter planned to attack Detroit church

In conversation's between Abu-Rayyan and the undercover agent, Abu-Rayyan described his desire to commit a martyrdom operation.

The complaint filed in federal court doesn’t specify which Detroit church he was allegedly planning to attack, only that it was close and could seat 6,000 members.

The complaint quotes Abu-Rayyan saying:

“It's easy, and a lot of people go there. Plus people are not allowed to carry guns in church. Plus it would make the news. Everybody would've heard. Honestly I regret not doing it. If I can't do jihad in the Middle East, I would do my jihad over here."

He had also told the undercover agent that a church would be an easy target because people are not allowed to carry guns there and that it would make the news.
----------------
Minnesota…...

Teen made bombs, stockpiled guns in prep for Minnesota school massacre: police

The unhinged teen told cops, after being busted Tuesday, that he planned to shoot his sister, mom and dad with a .22-caliber rifle before he went to a rural field and set a fire to distract cops.

The 11th-grader then said he planned to go to Waseca Junior and Senior High School where he would toss Molotov cocktails and explode pressure-cooker bombs to try and kill “as many students as he could” in the cafeteria during lunchtime.

About 1,000 students, in 7th through 12th grade, attend the school.

LaDue, according to the notebook of his plan, would kill the school resource officer before continuing to kill other students. He was prepared to be gunned down by a SWAT Team, police said.

He planned on making the school a gun free zone...moron...



************************


Vince Vaughn is right about guns (and was brave to be so honest) | Fox News

Last June, Elliot Rodger, who killed six people in Santa Barbara, Calif., explained his own choice. In his 141-page “Manifesto,” Rodger turned down alternate targets because he worried that someone with a gun would cut short his killing spree.

That same month, Justin Bourque shot to death three people in Canada. His Facebook page made fun of gun bans, with pictures of defenseless victims explaining to killers that they weren’t allowed to have guns.

The diary of the Aurora, Colorado, “Batman” movie theater killer, James Holmes, was finally released this past week. It was clear that he was considering both attacking an airport and a movie theater, but he turned down the airport option because he was concerned about their “substantial security.”

Of course, there are numerous other examples such as the Columbine killersopposing the concealed carry law that was then working its way through the state legislature. The bill would have allowed people to carry permitted concealed handguns on school property. The killers timed their attack for the very day that final passage of the law was planned for in the legislature.

If you go to the link for the Colorado theater shooter they have a photo of his journal where he has notes about airports…..he lists one of the items…."Substantial Security"

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/james-holmes-notebook-dragged.pdf
**************

Sandy hook, did not have police resource officer

Building a safer Sandy Hook | News21: Gun Wars

The high school and middle school, which already had armed resource officers, doubled down on security and restricted all visitors that didn’t have prior permission to enter.

Lupica: Lanza plotted massacre for years

They don’t believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet,” he continued. “This was the work of a video gamer, and that it was his intent to put his own name at the very top of that list. They believe that he picked an elementary school because he felt it was a point of least resistance, where he could rack up the greatest number of kills. That’s what (the Connecticut police) believe.”

The man paused and said, “They believe that (Lanza) believed that it was the way to pick up the easiest points. It’s why he didn’t want to be killed by law enforcement. In the code of a gamer, even a deranged gamer like this little bastard, if somebody else kills you, they get your points. They believe that’s why he killed himself.

-----

Blame school security?

The school doors were locked and secure at 9:30 a.m. with a video camera and buzzer system that can allow entry after that time from three monitoring locations. Lanza simply shot through the plate-glass window next to the lobby door to enter the school.

A 911 call was made at 9:35 a.m. It took less than five minutes for the police to get to the school. About a minute later, Lanza shot and killed himself. The first officer entered the school at 9:44 a.m.

In that tight time frame, it seems the only thing that could have stopped Lanza was a good guy inside the school with a gun. There were no armed security guards at Sandy Hook Elementary School, nor did any of the staff have a weapons.