The ultimate vindication of Republican supply-side economics

[EdwardBaiamonte]

One of the reasons that we had the recent collapse was because investment banks and other financial institutions were leveraging up to and over 40 to1.

You assume that a genius liberal regulator knows what the correct leverage ratio is and all he has to do is impose it. Imagine if you guess wrong and the economy grows at half the speed it should have or too high and everyone goes to the correct liberal level and everyone then collapses at the same time because it was too high.

The most constructive role the government could play is to require each bank to print its leverage ration on all transactions so the free market could decide what was correct for each bank. Those who wanted to speculate could and those who wanted safety could have it.

 

[itfitzme]

I didn't make anything up.
So no answers?

Of course you don't think so, that is the nature of insanity, the inability to tell the difference between reality and imagination.

At what point in the cycle do you feel a tax hike increases economic activity?
Do you really feel government spending is a more effective way to improve things?

And your still imagining things that didn't happen. I never said that "a tax hike increases economic activity". Nor did I say that I "feel government spending is a more effective way to improve things?"

The problem your having is that your to much of a chicken shit to present your own ideas. Rather, you have this myopoic view that either a one believes in "supply side economics" or one is a "liberal communist". Therefore, because I showed that GDP growth doesn't show the Bush Tax cuts created economic growth and that it is more reasonable to conclude that they killed the economy, then I must thing that "government spending is a more effective way to improve things?" It's that simple, but your too much of a chicken shit to actually say it. Instead, you imagine that it must have been said, then ask a question that implies something that never happened.

If you think that tax cuts always guarantee an increase in RGDP, they say so and then prove it.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Again, the premise of the OP is that Ireland's low tax rate is the reason that they're economy is "booming". But it's NOT. It was until 2007 - just like ALL of Europe, for example. And since then? Last I heard the unemployment rate there is over 13%. That's about 40% higher than our percentage.
So basically, the low tax rate didn't do anything to shield them from the current world recession.
Countries who are doing best right now? Sweden, Denmark, Finalnd, Germany, Netherlands... What do all those countries have in common? Their corporate tax rate is almost or more than double of Ireland's. So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple.

So because Ireland's UE rate is higher than ours now, that means their tax policy didn't work?
Do you understand the meaning of non-sequitur?

"Our economy would boom if BO eliminated the corporate tax altogether as Ireland proved by just lowering it."

Do you understand the meaning of "Topic of the original post"?
Do you understand this: "So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple."

Apparently not.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

GDP growth doesn't show the Bush Tax cuts created economic growth and that it is more reasonable to conclude that they killed the economy,

actually Red China just switched to freedom so the private sector would be making the spending decisions, not the liberal geniuses who starved 30 million to death with their great spending decisions.

 

[The Rabbi]

Again, the premise of the OP is that Ireland's low tax rate is the reason that they're economy is "booming". But it's NOT. It was until 2007 - just like ALL of Europe, for example. And since then? Last I heard the unemployment rate there is over 13%. That's about 40% higher than our percentage.
So basically, the low tax rate didn't do anything to shield them from the current world recession.
Countries who are doing best right now? Sweden, Denmark, Finalnd, Germany, Netherlands... What do all those countries have in common? Their corporate tax rate is almost or more than double of Ireland's. So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple.

So because Ireland's UE rate is higher than ours now, that means their tax policy didn't work?
Do you understand the meaning of non-sequitur?

"Our economy would boom if BO eliminated the corporate tax altogether as Ireland proved by just lowering it."

Do you understand the meaning of "Topic of the original post"?
Do you understand this: "So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple."

Apparently not.

You haven't shown that Ireland's boom did not occur because they changed tax rates.

 

[Foxfyre]

America should cut it's corporate tax rate to 15% or lower and wipe out most if not all of the loopholes.

or better yet eliminate it altogether so business can concentrate on business rather than on wasting time and energy on tax avoidance.

Businesses are tax collectors not taxpayers. we have the tax only to pander to the pure ignorance of liberals who think they are punishing business with the tax.

Actually there is some justification in a moderate and competetive corporate tax to ensure that we all have some skin in the game. That is the only fair give and take that I see to relieve the necessary tax burden on the lower income wage earner who doesn't run a business. And then every American benefits from being an American and should pay their fair share, no matter how small, to fund the central government. It is a dangerous thing for half of Americans to be paying little or nothing into the federal treasury and therefore experiencing none of the consequences of a punative tax policy. But they have a strong interest in voting in people who will maintain that tax policy.

If we all share proportionately in the benefits and in the pain of government policy, we make much better choices in who we send to Washington to make that policy.

I liked Rick Perry's flat tax plan but that's moot now. I like Gingrich's plan of a somewhat higher personal and corportate income tax rate than with Cain's 9-9-9 plan but a whole lot less than the existing rates. And there would be no national sales tax involved which was my major problem with Cain's proposal.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So because Ireland's UE rate is higher than ours now, that means their tax policy didn't work?
Do you understand the meaning of non-sequitur?

"Our economy would boom if BO eliminated the corporate tax altogether as Ireland proved by just lowering it."

Do you understand the meaning of "Topic of the original post"?
Do you understand this: "So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple."

Apparently not.

You haven't shown that Ireland's boom did not occur because they changed tax rates.

Europe is up in arms about the Irish corporate tax rate and are looking for ways to force them to raise it because they know Republican supply-side economics works. Sorry. A child can see this just not a liberal.

 

[Big Fitz]

"Our economy would boom if BO eliminated the corporate tax altogether as Ireland proved by just lowering it."

Do you understand the meaning of "Topic of the original post"?
Do you understand this: "So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple."

Apparently not.

You haven't shown that Ireland's boom did not occur because they changed tax rates.

Europe is up in arms about the Irish corporate tax rate and are looking for ways to force them to raise it because they know Republican supply-side economics works. Sorry. A child can see this just not a liberal.

The strategy of the whiny little brothers. "MOM! MAKE THEM STOP BEATING US!" And if there is no 'mom' to appeal to for 'fairness', then they gang up on them and try to tear the stronger down like a pack of ravening hyenas. Even a lion doesn't fuck with that pack of motivated cowards and thugs.

 

[The Rabbi]

Actually there is some justification in a moderate and competetive corporate tax to ensure that we all have some skin in the game. That is the only fair give and take that I see to relieve the necessary tax burden on the lower income wage earner who doesn't run a business. And then every American benefits from being an American and should pay their fair share, no matter how small, to fund the central government. It is a dangerous thing for half of Americans to be paying little or nothing into the federal treasury and therefore experiencing none of the consequences of a punative tax policy. But they have a strong interest in voting in people who will maintain that tax policy.

If we all share proportionately in the benefits and in the pain of government policy, we make much better choices in who we send to Washington to make that policy.

I liked Rick Perry's flat tax plan but that's moot now. I like Gingrich's plan of a somewhat higher personal and corportate income tax rate than with Cain's 9-9-9 plan but a whole lot less than the existing rates. And there would be no national sales tax involved which was my major problem with Cain's proposal.

No, this isn't about "fairness" which is meaningless. Tax policy should be about the best way to raise revenue without killing the economy. An uncompetitive corporate tax structure that is excessively complex will not raise optimum revenue and will affect the economy negatively.
Ireland has shown what happens when you cut rates to globally competitive levels. Companies relocate to your country and the economy improves. This isn't rocket science.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Actually there is some justification in a moderate and competetive corporate tax to ensure that we all have some skin in the game.
That is the only fair give and take that I see to relieve the necessary tax burden on the lower income wage earner .

1) the liberal lacks the IQ to know that the tax is passed on to customers like any cost

2) all the tax does is promote crony capitalism loopholes that allow companies to make money with tax dodges rather than lower priced products that increase our standard of living. Again , way over a liberals head.

 

[IndependntLogic]

So because Ireland's UE rate is higher than ours now, that means their tax policy didn't work?
Do you understand the meaning of non-sequitur?

"Our economy would boom if BO eliminated the corporate tax altogether as Ireland proved by just lowering it."

Do you understand the meaning of "Topic of the original post"?
Do you understand this: "So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple."

Apparently not.

You haven't shown that Ireland's boom did not occur because they changed tax rates.

That's because I didn't assert it. But based on that logic (i.e. that lowering or raising taxes alone, causes "booms"), raising taxes in America would cause the biggest possible boom.
As would converting to a Theocratic Monarchy! Because Saudi Arabia is RICH baby!

My assertation was this: It's not that simple. The fact that the lower tax rates has nothing more for Ireland in the last three years, than countries with higher tax rates, would support this.
There are multiple factors that effect a national economy.

 

[Big Fitz]

"Our economy would boom if BO eliminated the corporate tax altogether as Ireland proved by just lowering it."

Do you understand the meaning of "Topic of the original post"?
Do you understand this: "So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple."

Apparently not.

You haven't shown that Ireland's boom did not occur because they changed tax rates.

That's because I didn't assert it. But based on that logic (i.e. that lowering or raising taxes alone, causes "booms"), raising taxes in America would cause the biggest possible boom.
As would converting to a Theocratic Monarchy! Because Saudi Arabia is RICH baby!

My assertation was this: It's not that simple. The fact that the lower tax rates has nothing more for Ireland in the last three years, than countries with higher tax rates, would support this.
There are multiple factors that effect a national economy.

All the correlary / causation mistake. It's something we all must be careful of.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"Our economy would boom if BO eliminated the corporate tax altogether as Ireland proved by just lowering it."

Do you understand the meaning of "Topic of the original post"?
Do you understand this: "So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple."

Apparently not.

You haven't shown that Ireland's boom did not occur because they changed tax rates.

That's because I didn't assert it. But based on that logic (i.e. that lowering or raising taxes alone, causes "booms"), raising taxes in America would cause the biggest possible boom.
As would converting to a Theocratic Monarchy! Because Saudi Arabia is RICH baby!

My assertation was this: It's not that simple. The fact that the lower tax rates has nothing more for Ireland in the last three years, than countries with higher tax rates, would support this.
There are multiple factors that effect a national economy.

There is no secret, most corporations who moved there will tell you they moved there because of the lower tax, primarily. Only a liberal can't understand the obvious. What does that say about liberalism?

 

[The Rabbi]

"Our economy would boom if BO eliminated the corporate tax altogether as Ireland proved by just lowering it."

Do you understand the meaning of "Topic of the original post"?
Do you understand this: "So it's not as simple as "Just lower tax rates and everything will be fixed!". Major economies are rarely that simple."

Apparently not.

You haven't shown that Ireland's boom did not occur because they changed tax rates.

That's because I didn't assert it. But based on that logic (i.e. that lowering or raising taxes alone, causes "booms"), raising taxes in America would cause the biggest possible boom.
As would converting to a Theocratic Monarchy! Because Saudi Arabia is RICH baby!

My assertation was this: It's not that simple. The fact that the lower tax rates has nothing more for Ireland in the last three years, than countries with higher tax rates, would support this.
There are multiple factors that effect a national economy.

It doesnt support jackshit.
Ireland was a basket case, they lowered rates, and their economy boomed. What other factors would you like to mention? Yes they have an English speaking educated workforce. But they pretty much always have. And it didnt help them until they changed tax policy.

 

[IndependntLogic]

You haven't shown that Ireland's boom did not occur because they changed tax rates.

That's because I didn't assert it. But based on that logic (i.e. that lowering or raising taxes alone, causes "booms"), raising taxes in America would cause the biggest possible boom.
As would converting to a Theocratic Monarchy! Because Saudi Arabia is RICH baby!

My assertation was this: It's not that simple. The fact that the lower tax rates has nothing more for Ireland in the last three years, than countries with higher tax rates, would support this.
There are multiple factors that effect a national economy.

All the correlary / causation mistake. It's something we all must be careful of.

FITZ!!! Nice to see a little IQ coming from the Conservative side of this one! Exactly!
Since Saudi Arabia is a Theocratic Monarchy then that must be the Best way to insure a wealthy economy!
Since Ireland's economy improved when they had low tax rates then low tax rates alone must be the cause of a good economy BUT this isn't Ireland SO
Since America experienced a huge boom during a period of HIGH tax rates and CRASHED after the rates had been lowered for a while THEN High Tax rates must be what is best for America!

I mean, it's not like natural resources, technology, wars, stock market manipulations, natural and other catastrophes, over-regulation of say oh COAL and other industries , globalization, the Reversing of the Industrial Revolution and so on effect a country's economy!
Nope! It's just one thing! Low taxes! Which is why Ireland is so prosperous right now! Oops.
I think people need to quit taking one soundbite off of FOX or MSNBC and equating it to the panacea of all woes....

 

[stans]

Glass-Steagall was enacted in 1933 at 5% and was emasculated in 1996-7 to 25% and fully repealed in 1999.

Huh?

And careful with the quote function.

I screwed up erasing the quotes to narrow down to the line of interest. The author was itfitzme. Sorry again.

 

[The Rabbi]

That's because I didn't assert it. But based on that logic (i.e. that lowering or raising taxes alone, causes "booms"), raising taxes in America would cause the biggest possible boom.
As would converting to a Theocratic Monarchy! Because Saudi Arabia is RICH baby!

My assertation was this: It's not that simple. The fact that the lower tax rates has nothing more for Ireland in the last three years, than countries with higher tax rates, would support this.
There are multiple factors that effect a national economy.

All the correlary / causation mistake. It's something we all must be careful of.

FITZ!!! Nice to see a little IQ coming from the Conservative side of this one! Exactly!
Since Saudi Arabia is a Theocratic Monarchy then that must be the Best way to insure a wealthy economy!
Since Ireland's economy improved when they had low tax rates then low tax rates alone must be the cause of a good economy BUT this isn't Ireland SO
Since America experienced a huge boom during a period of HIGH tax rates and CRASHED after the rates had been lowered for a while THEN High Tax rates must be what is best for America!

I mean, it's not like natural resources, technology, wars, stock market manipulations, natural and other catastrophes, over-regulation of say oh COAL and other industries , globalization, the Reversing of the Industrial Revolution and so on effect a country's economy!
Nope! It's just one thing! Low taxes! Which is why Ireland is so prosperous right now! Oops.
I think people need to quit taking one soundbite off of FOX or MSNBC and equating it to the panacea of all woes....

So please enlighten us on what it was that changed in Ireland other than tax rates to account for their boom.

 

[Foxfyre]

Actually there is some justification in a moderate and competetive corporate tax to ensure that we all have some skin in the game. That is the only fair give and take that I see to relieve the necessary tax burden on the lower income wage earner who doesn't run a business. And then every American benefits from being an American and should pay their fair share, no matter how small, to fund the central government. It is a dangerous thing for half of Americans to be paying little or nothing into the federal treasury and therefore experiencing none of the consequences of a punative tax policy. But they have a strong interest in voting in people who will maintain that tax policy.

If we all share proportionately in the benefits and in the pain of government policy, we make much better choices in who we send to Washington to make that policy.

I liked Rick Perry's flat tax plan but that's moot now. I like Gingrich's plan of a somewhat higher personal and corportate income tax rate than with Cain's 9-9-9 plan but a whole lot less than the existing rates. And there would be no national sales tax involved which was my major problem with Cain's proposal.

No, this isn't about "fairness" which is meaningless. Tax policy should be about the best way to raise revenue without killing the economy. An uncompetitive corporate tax structure that is excessively complex will not raise optimum revenue and will affect the economy negatively.
Ireland has shown what happens when you cut rates to globally competitive levels. Companies relocate to your country and the economy improves. This isn't rocket science.

I didn't say anything about fairness. I said everybody should have some skin in the game.

Ireland current corporate tax rate is:

12.5% for trading income
25% for non-trading income
They had a 10% rate for manufacturing income for awhile, but I think that was temporary and has expired.

What Newt has suggested is about 15% across the board which would make us more competitive than any European countries and most African and Asian countries. Then relax some unnecessary and punative regulation and given our work ethic and other protections here, I'm pretty sure the world would be clamoring to set up shop here. And moving operations overseas would become far less attractive for our home grown industries too.

 

[stans]

TOR does not make "all space-time observations previously since the beginning of time"
disagree with reality.

It absolutely does. We just haven't been able to measure length or time precisely enough untill relatively recently. All pre-Einstein measurements were imprecise as I said above. In fact you could define relativistic velocity as the velocity at which we can detect changes in length-time (precision and accuracy) from the static length-time.

Btw, my last job title, before I retired a few years ago was Chief Electronic Engineer at Rutgers University, one of the 56 research universities in the US. Our mandate was to develop electronic instrumentation that was used in collaborative experiments at accelerator labs such as CERN, Fermilab, SLAC etc. and laboratory instruments such as Scanning Tunneling Microscopes. Do you really want to keep arguing about physics? I don't. This is an economics forum and that's what I'd like to discuss.

The Newtonian measurement of my yardstick does not disagree with reality because of the Theory of Relativity.

No but your measurement is inaccurate. Space-time measurements require relative motion between the object being measured and the measurer. That's our misunderstanding.

 

[DSGE]

All the correlary / causation mistake. It's something we all must be careful of.

FITZ!!! Nice to see a little IQ coming from the Conservative side of this one! Exactly!
Since Saudi Arabia is a Theocratic Monarchy then that must be the Best way to insure a wealthy economy!
Since Ireland's economy improved when they had low tax rates then low tax rates alone must be the cause of a good economy BUT this isn't Ireland SO
Since America experienced a huge boom during a period of HIGH tax rates and CRASHED after the rates had been lowered for a while THEN High Tax rates must be what is best for America!

I mean, it's not like natural resources, technology, wars, stock market manipulations, natural and other catastrophes, over-regulation of say oh COAL and other industries , globalization, the Reversing of the Industrial Revolution and so on effect a country's economy!
Nope! It's just one thing! Low taxes! Which is why Ireland is so prosperous right now! Oops.
I think people need to quit taking one soundbite off of FOX or MSNBC and equating it to the panacea of all woes....

So please enlighten us on what it was that changed in Ireland other than tax rates to account for their boom.

What boom is this?