The ultimate vindication of Republican supply-side economics

[editec]

Corporate taxation has NOTHING to do with our current economic woes.

The premise that taxation is the key to economic solvency is absurd on its face.

You either GET that or you don't but there's very little point trying to explain that to people who are ideologically blinded.

The supply side has PLENTY of money.

Ergo cutting their taxes and expecting THAT will make them invest in production here in the USA is kind of foolish.

Economic history does NOT support that belief and frankly, niether does logic support that faith based argument.

 

[stans]

The Newtonian measurement of my yardstick does not disagree with reality because of the Theory of Relativity.

No but your measurement is inaccurate. Space-time measurements require relative motion between the object being measured and the measurer. That's our misunderstanding.

No but your measurement is inaccurate.

Not on Earth it isn't. Glad we agree.

It is inaccurate if you're in a moving vehicle, such as a train, and you want to measure the length of a stationary object, or vice versa.

 

[stans]

So? One to two years isnt much lead time. A change in interest rates typically takes 18 months to work through the economy. Look 3-4 years and things change.
You are an ignorant dishonest poster. The only thing you were ever head of was head-case.

Do you have a reference on interest rate lead time?

No response. But it doesn't make a difference because you didn't bother to think things out. Here's why. When there's an upturn in the economy, for any reason, companies have to hire workers right away in order to increse their production to satisfy increased product demand. Profits are tallied later, and for publicly traded corps, no earlier than the next quarter and realistically usually a bit more.

 

[regent]

So is Ireland's economy still booming due to supply side economics?
I think economists have pretty much discarded simple cause and effect arguments regarding a nation's economy, there are many variables involved, but you gotta admit simple solutions are appealing, and they do register with the public.

 

[The Rabbi]

So is Ireland's economy still booming due to supply side economics?
I think economists have pretty much discarded simple cause and effect arguments regarding a nation's economy, there are many variables involved, but you gotta admit simple solutions are appealing, and they do register with the public.

What economy is booming these days?

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. Reagan told us, Inflation is bad, taxes are too high, and the Soviets are evil. Worked out pretty well.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Ireland currenly has 15% unemployment and a economy that is 15% below its peak and its still in recession,

Actually, Europe is in recession because of financial crisis, not because of low Irish corporate taxes. OMG!!

starcraftzzz mentions Ireland

and the conservative nitwit who goes by the name Eddie deflects and as a rebuttal ends up mentioning Europe.

 

[editec]

So is Ireland's economy still booming due to supply side economics?
I think economists have pretty much discarded simple cause and effect arguments regarding a nation's economy, there are many variables involved, but you gotta admit simple solutions are appealing, and they do register with the public.

I think you hit that nail sqaurely ion the head, regent.

A macro-economy is so complex that NOBODY has a firm grasp of it.

People often confuse coincidence for cause.

The reality of highly complex systems is far too choatic for someone to predict its behaviors with any degree of accuracy.

As, I note, our current economy, so amply shows us.

Just a decade ago, many marcoeconomist were telling us that they have finally found the economic model that will allow them to predict and them dampen the fluxuations of the economy cycle.

So much for that theory, eh?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Press Release: IMF Completes Fifth Review Under the Extended Arrangement with Ireland and Approves €3.2 Billion Disbursement


The Irish Economy » Blog Archive » Supply side rabbits (or, the optimists need to decide on a party line)

How do you try to convince markets that an economy is going to grow even in the face of serious budget cuts, at a time of already high unemployment? You produce some supply side structural reforms from a hat, et voila! This is how the IMF envisages getting growth in Greece, for example, and it is now being suggested that structural reforms will be a means of getting growth in Ireland as well:

Together with the structural reforms that will be announced in the strategy, this budgetary adjustment should allow Ireland to return to a strong and sustainable growth path while safeguarding the economic and social position of its citizens.

I am a little confused by this. After all, it just a couple of months since Morgan Stanley provided a completely contrary reason for being bullish about Ireland...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#In_Ireland

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/...ireland-poster-child-for-austerity-programmes

 

[stans]

And you've never answered why Ireland boomed if it were not for their tax cuts[/B].

which has been asked on a few poats in this thread: and a few posts earlier:

So please enlighten us on what it was that changed in Ireland other than tax rates to account for their boom.

Beginning in the early 1990’s, unprecedented economic growth saw the level of Irish real GDP double in size over the course of a little more than a decade. There have been many reasons advanced for Ireland’s success over this period, including EU membership and access to the Single Market; Ireland’s low corporation tax rate and a large multinational presence; a high proportion of the population of working age; increased participation in the labour market especially by females; a reversal of the trend of emigration toward immigration; sustained investment in education and training; co-ordinated social partnership agreements and a more stable public finance position.

Irish Economy

Note that he answered his own burning question with his own reference. : a high proportion of the population of working age; increased participation in the labour market especially by females; a reversal of the trend of emigration toward immigration; sustained investment in education and training; co-ordinated social partnership agreements. This group of reasons taken as a partial or complete group could have contributed or completely caused the Irish boom. Possibly, the boom would have never occured without the referenced demographics or emphasis on education and training.

Of course, one instance (A boom resulting from Irish corporate tax rate deduction), as I posted earlier, proves nothing. So he responded with 3 or 4 more UNSUBSTANTIATED examples, without references, expecting me to verify his statement to prove his point. This thread's premise that Irelands boom "proves" that corporate tax cuts, will expand an economy is substantially unproven. If, Ireland were the only country in the world whose economy boomed due to tax cuts, as 1936 Germany was the only country in the world to leave the depression by massive application of Keynesian principals and the only country in the world to apply Keynesian principals, fortifying Keynes theory, then some credence could be given to the premise of this thread.

Note that the argument that we had a boom under Clinton with increased tax rates only proves that. It doesn't disprove the possibility that lowering corporate taxes may produce a boom. As argued by others in this thread, and with which I completely agree, economics is an extremely complex environment in which to "prove" a hypothesis, and policies can have different effects at different times when combined with the other current occuring economic events.

It is my opinion that for the next few years corporate taxes should be increased, loopholes and accounting caused tax reductions such as tax loss carry forward should temporarily be eliminated to cause a reduction in corporate profits. Simultaneously, companies should be offerred tax credits to pay for increasing US production capacity, say up to 10% to 20%. Companies will have to respond because their competition will and the competition will take market share in the next expansion if the companies don't take advantage of the tax credit. This results in a smaller increase (or possibly decrease) in national debt (since taxes were increased), immediate increase in employment, and price stability since companies currently have excess capacity to meet an immediate demand surge while production expansion will hold down future prices since presently started production expansion will increase future supply. This is explained in much greater detail, where each premise is built upon historical economic events, data, and references, at my website which I shamelessly promote.

Reduce Unemployment with Little Price Increase

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Note that the argument that we had a boom under Clinton with increased tax rates only proves that. It doesn't disprove the possibility that lowering corporate taxes may produce a boom. As argued by others in this thread, and with which I completely agree, economics is an extremely complex environment in which to "prove" a hypothesis, and policies can have different effects at different times when combined with the other current occuring economic events.

economics is bs theory. nothing more, nothing less.

booms are psychological and not very reality based. debt is real.

 

[regent]

So is Ireland's economy still booming due to supply side economics?
I think economists have pretty much discarded simple cause and effect arguments regarding a nation's economy, there are many variables involved, but you gotta admit simple solutions are appealing, and they do register with the public.

What economy is booming these days?

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. Reagan told us, Inflation is bad, taxes are too high, and the Soviets are evil. Worked out pretty well.

But Reagan tripled the debt, perhaps some of those simple solutions were too simple?
I did agree with him on some of his homilies, however, evil is bad, happiness is good.
And speaking of Reagan's simple solutions, he carried them on 3 by 5 cards in his pocket and would check them over before a conference.

 

[stans]

Note that the argument that we had a boom under Clinton with increased tax rates only proves that. It doesn't disprove the possibility that lowering corporate taxes may produce a boom. As argued by others in this thread, and with which I completely agree, economics is an extremely complex environment in which to "prove" a hypothesis, and policies can have different effects at different times when combined with the other current occuring economic events.

economics is bs theory. nothing more, nothing less.

booms are psychological and not very reality based. debt is real.

Not if you've worked as a freelance consultant. When times are bad consulting completely dries up. At the first hint of expansion, demand for consultants starts immediately

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Note that the argument that we had a boom under Clinton with increased tax rates only proves that. It doesn't disprove the possibility that lowering corporate taxes may produce a boom. As argued by others in this thread, and with which I completely agree, economics is an extremely complex environment in which to "prove" a hypothesis, and policies can have different effects at different times when combined with the other current occuring economic events.

economics is bs theory. nothing more, nothing less.

booms are psychological and not very reality based. debt is real.

Not if you've worked as a freelance consultant. When times are bad consulting completely dries up. At the first hint of expansion, demand for consultants starts immediately

that in itself is a boom. good consultants have constant work. riding a gravy train is what people do.


people who make money in the stock market or real estate during boom times always mistake luck and riding a wave for smarts.

 

[stans]

economics is bs theory. nothing more, nothing less.

booms are psychological and not very reality based. debt is real.

Not if you've worked as a freelance consultant. When times are bad consulting completely dries up. At the first hint of expansion, demand for consultants starts immediately

that in itself is a boom. good consultants have constant work. riding a gravy train is what people do.


people who make money in the stock market or real estate during boom times always mistake luck and riding a wave for smarts.

Have you consulted? Statement is not true in my field. I was at the absolute top payscale and only worked on state-of -the-art programs and there were times that I couldn't find work with along with everyone else

 

[The Rabbi]

So is Ireland's economy still booming due to supply side economics?
I think economists have pretty much discarded simple cause and effect arguments regarding a nation's economy, there are many variables involved, but you gotta admit simple solutions are appealing, and they do register with the public.

What economy is booming these days?

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. Reagan told us, Inflation is bad, taxes are too high, and the Soviets are evil. Worked out pretty well.

But Reagan tripled the debt, perhaps some of those simple solutions were too simple?
I did agree with him on some of his homilies, however, evil is bad, happiness is good.
And speaking of Reagan's simple solutions, he carried them on 3 by 5 cards in his pocket and would check them over before a conference.

Obama's deficits are bigger than Reagan's entire budget.
But why do you bring up something irrelevant like this? Deflection perhaps?

 

[IndependntLogic]

A little slow here?

Irish Economy

Give it up DSGE. This blithering idiot is too stupid to realize taxes alone don't it. He's been Cut & Running from this little fact (from the same source), during the whole thread:

"The 1990s boom in the United States of America was an extended period of economic prosperity, during which GDP increased continuously for almost ten years (the longest recorded expansion in the history of the United States). It commenced with the end of the early 1990s recession in March 1991, and ended with the early 2000s recession, which started in March 2001. The boom largely coincided with the presidency of President Bill Clinton."

And we had higher taxes then! Therefore higher taxes must lead to a boom!

Rabbi will now dodge this like the pudgy kid in gym class during a game of .... dodgeball.

There is no dodge, idiot. Did you miss the dot-com boom? Were you alive then? And with Ireland we are discussing corporate taxes. Willy raised them on individuals.
And we ended up with a recession in 2001 so I guess higher taxes did lead to a bust.
And you've never answered why Ireland boomed if it were not for their tax cuts.

Ah so we still had those high corporate tax rates during our booms? Yup. Why? Like I said, nice dodge.
Only a fool thinks the sole reason for a major economy is based on tax rates alone.

 

[regent]

What economy is booming these days?

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. Reagan told us, Inflation is bad, taxes are too high, and the Soviets are evil. Worked out pretty well.

But Reagan tripled the debt, perhaps some of those simple solutions were too simple?
I did agree with him on some of his homilies, however, evil is bad, happiness is good.
And speaking of Reagan's simple solutions, he carried them on 3 by 5 cards in his pocket and would check them over before a conference.

Obama's deficits are bigger than Reagan's entire budget.
But why do you bring up something irrelevant like this? Deflection perhaps?

Simple, Reagan was the beginning of much of today's debt problems. Reagan tripled the debt and for what? Clinton held the debt. and then Bush came in and doubled it again and for what? What did Reagan and Bush spend all that borrowed money on, where is Obama spending the money? Big difference. Suppose there had been no Reagan or Bush presidency's?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Simple, Reagan was the beginning of much of today's debt problems.

actually Republicans have introduced 30 Balanced Budget Amendments since Jefferson. Liberals killed everyone one of them.

A child should know this.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

independent ?

this means independent of brains so you cant decide between two opposite philosophies and so flip flop like a jelly fish. You were for it before you were against it, but even lack the brains to know that much. At least Kerry knew it. Sorry

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Only a fool thinks the sole reason for a major economy is based on tax rates alone.

as Ireland shows its a huge part of the equation.