The Unenforceability of abortion bans

[JoeB131]

More Mormon Crazy on display... this is why you need to chase the missionaries out of your neighborhood.

That's one of your persistent lies.

I am not arguing for a fetus to have any right that every other human being does not have, viz., the right not to be killed in cold blood simply because someone else finds his existence to be inconvenient. I certainly have never argued for denying pregnant women exactly that same right, nor would I ever argue such a thing.

What you are saying is a woman should be a prisoner to her unwanted pregnancy. That is taking away her rights.

You are the guy who wants to murder someone for taking your tools, but you think a woman should be prosecuted for wanting to get rid of an unwanted parasite that is going to sap her health and give her long-term issues?

And another of your relentless lies that you keep repeating no matter how solidly it is refuted.

We don't investigate anyone for “potential” crimes unless there is some reasonable cause to suspect that a crime has been committed; and I am not now arguing that we should.

Wow, spoken like a true white person.

We've already seen women prosecuted for having miscarriages under the ridiculous fetal homicide laws.

You've just given every vindictive ex-boyfriend a new way to harass his ex-girlfriend. Just claim her miscarriage was an illegal abortion.

If we have laws against robbing convenience stores, then we'll have to have the police watching every random citizen to make sure that each citizen is not robbing convenience stores; each citizen will have to account for where all his money comes from to make sure he's not hiding the proceeds from robberies, and so on. Obviously, we cannot allow anyone to have the freedoms and rights that the Fourth through Sixth Amendments assert, otherwise there's a risk that someone might get away with robbing a convenience store.

Not really a good analogy. If money disappears from a store, you are going to have an investigation whether or not it was an armed robbery or an inside job.

If a fetus disappears from a woman's uterus, you would need to have an investigation whether or not it was a miscarriage or an abortion.

For very good reason, our justice system is set up on a foundation of assuming that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, that we don't even begin investigating anyone for a possible crime without there being some substantial cause to believe that a crime has actually been committed and that the one being investigates is involved.

But you are SAVING THE BABIES!!!! Please don't tell me you religious fanatics are going to let silly little things like constitutional rights stop you! You are doing the Will of God!!!

It's also against the law to bomb abortion clinics, yet you guys do that all the time. Oh, boo-hoo some protestors showed up at Alito's house! How awful.

trying to argue that if the murder of unborn children is not allowed, then we have to treat every woman and every gynecologist as a suspected murderer.

Nope, just the ones who lost pregnancies.

If a doctor and a woman both attest that a pregnancy ended in a miscarriage, then how do you stop ANY abortions? You'd have to investigate both miscarriages and abortions with equal scrutiny.

 

[dudmuck]

So Religion also says life begins at conception. Science and Religion is on my side.

Thanks for the link confirming what I said.

 

[JimH52]

Irrelevant.

It's obvious to anyone that those charges are unconstitutional.

There are no laws that acknowledge a fetus is a person with the same rights as an adult

Soooo, if a woman becomes pregnant, does that mean she can claim the fetus as a tax exemption?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I have no problem with states saying killing babies is wrong.

'Banning' abortion was never about ending abortion, it was and is about more government, bigger government at the expense of individual liberty.

 

[Nostra]

Irrelevant.

It's obvious to anyone that those charges are unconstitutional.

There are no laws that acknowledge a fetus is a person with the same rights as an adult

Irrelevant? Yeah, because it destroys your bullshit.

Link us up to those laws being declared unconstitutional.

 

[Nostra]

WHen has any of those been brought before the Supreme Court?

None made it that far, which further enforces the fact you are full of shit.

 

[Nostra]

So you refuse to support your own claims. Got it

Support your claim they are unconstitutional.

Show us the SC ruling.

 

[Nostra]

'Banning' abortion was never about ending abortion, it was and is about more government, bigger government at the expense of individual liberty.

Huh? Banning abortion doesn’t end abortion?

 

[Nostra]

So you are advocating our country be ruled by the Bible.

Git it.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Except in no state is there a law granting a fetus the rights of personhood.
So legally a fetus is not a person and does not have Constitutional protection.

Abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution so it is left to the states to decide the issue.

 

[JoeB131]

Abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution so it is left to the states to decide the issue.

Guns aren't mentioned in the constitution, so it's up to the states to decide the issue.

And no, "Arms" aren't "guns".

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Guns aren't mentioned in the constitution, so it's up to the states to decide the issue.

And no, "Arms" aren't "guns".

Wow. I can almost smell the stupid coming off that statement.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

So you don;t care is a pregnant woman abuses her fetus by smoking or drinking or by engaging in activities that put the life of the fetus in jeopardy? How can you protect fetuses if you don;y know which woman are pregnant?

If you want to grant the rights of personhood at conception you should want this too.

No, I simply prefer remaining sane.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Those cases have to be run through the federal courts first that they haven't been in no way implies SCOTUS endorsement.

The Supreme court doesn't go looking to state laws to challenge they only take cases that have been run all the way through the courts

You're fabricating bullshit now. Hundreds of cases are handled in such a manner every year.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

But we're not. We plowed this ground 50 years ago, found these laws largely unworkable, which is why the Court threw them all out.

The Philippines have the kinds of laws you want... and they have 500K abortions a year.

Romania tried to impose the kind of laws you want, and abortions were commonplace in a COMMUNIST DICTATORSHIP.



Would it though.

Let's take cops. The fact is, cops don't arrest everyone they see breaking a law. Prostitution is illegal in Illinois, but nearly every town out where I am at has a "Happy Ending" massage parlor. The cops don't bust them. It's not worth the trouble of filling out the paperwork.

Prosecutors are elected. It's one thing for a redneck legislator to pass an abortion law, but another for a blue city prosecutor to try to prosecute one when 70% of his constiuents opposed the law to start with.

Then you got juries... Man, if you want to talk about cases that cry out for "Jury Nullification", it would be these. As I said, I ever found myself on such a jury, I wouldn't care if the Doctor is on video tossing Globby the Fetus across the room to get a three pointer in the Medical waste container, I'm voting to acquit.

Legislatures and governors are also elected and answerable to The People.

IF they pass laws seriously out of step with the wishes of the voters of their states as I said, they'll quickly find themselves replaced in the next election.

Democracy works pretty well most of the time to the favor of the majority.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Romania tried to impose the kind of laws you want

You seem to have no actual clue what I'd like to see as far as abortion law goes, you'd simply rather assume.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

More Mormon Crazy on display... this is why you need to chase the missionaries out of your neighborhood.



What you are saying is a woman should be a prisoner to her unwanted pregnancy. That is taking away her rights.

You are the guy who wants to murder someone for taking your tools, but you think a woman should be prosecuted for wanting to get rid of an unwanted parasite that is going to sap her health and give her long-term issues?



Wow, spoken like a true white person.

We've already seen women prosecuted for having miscarriages under the ridiculous fetal homicide laws.

You've just given every vindictive ex-boyfriend a new way to harass his ex-girlfriend. Just claim her miscarriage was an illegal abortion.



Not really a good analogy. If money disappears from a store, you are going to have an investigation whether or not it was an armed robbery or an inside job.

If a fetus disappears from a woman's uterus, you would need to have an investigation whether or not it was a miscarriage or an abortion.



But you are SAVING THE BABIES!!!! Please don't tell me you religious fanatics are going to let silly little things like constitutional rights stop you! You are doing the Will of God!!!

It's also against the law to bomb abortion clinics, yet you guys do that all the time. Oh, boo-hoo some protestors showed up at Alito's house! How awful.



Nope, just the ones who lost pregnancies.

If a doctor and a woman both attest that a pregnancy ended in a miscarriage, then how do you stop ANY abortions? You'd have to investigate both miscarriages and abortions with equal scrutiny.

A baby in the womb is not a parasite, that's where the mother created it.

At least for now we also put women in prison who change their minds about being moms after giving birth who neglect, abuse, or murder their children.

In no other aspect of law do we allow the killing of a human being without penalty except in cases of self defense or defense of others.

Abortion law should be no different.

A growing fetus in the womb is exactly where the mother created it and where it belongs.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

More Mormon Crazy on display... this is why you need to chase the missionaries out of your neighborhood.



What you are saying is a woman should be a prisoner to her unwanted pregnancy. That is taking away her rights.

You are the guy who wants to murder someone for taking your tools, but you think a woman should be prosecuted for wanting to get rid of an unwanted parasite that is going to sap her health and give her long-term issues?



Wow, spoken like a true white person.

We've already seen women prosecuted for having miscarriages under the ridiculous fetal homicide laws.

You've just given every vindictive ex-boyfriend a new way to harass his ex-girlfriend. Just claim her miscarriage was an illegal abortion.



Not really a good analogy. If money disappears from a store, you are going to have an investigation whether or not it was an armed robbery or an inside job.

If a fetus disappears from a woman's uterus, you would need to have an investigation whether or not it was a miscarriage or an abortion.



But you are SAVING THE BABIES!!!! Please don't tell me you religious fanatics are going to let silly little things like constitutional rights stop you! You are doing the Will of God!!!

It's also against the law to bomb abortion clinics, yet you guys do that all the time. Oh, boo-hoo some protestors showed up at Alito's house! How awful.



Nope, just the ones who lost pregnancies.

If a doctor and a woman both attest that a pregnancy ended in a miscarriage, then how do you stop ANY abortions? You'd have to investigate both miscarriages and abortions with equal scrutiny.

Just check the clinic/hospital billing records.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

It's also against the law to bomb abortion clinics, yet you guys do that all the time.

You are of course now lying out of our ass.

Exactly how many abortion clinics were bombed in 2020? Provide supporting links.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

"I come not to enforce The Law but to Fulfill it"-Christ

The new covenant Christ Created rendered old Testament law moot.

Next fallacy?