The Unenforceability of abortion bans

[JoeB131]

Tell that to all the slave owners who were deprived of valuable “property”, when we recognized that that “property” was not property at all, but human beings who had to be recognized as having the rights to which all human beings are entitled. “Born” “non-slaves” were deprived of what they previously considered to be important rights regarding their “property”.

Except not really. What happened after the war that a lot of legal contrivances were developed, such as "Debt peonage" and "Sharecropping" that left the former slaves under the control of their former slave masters... The last slaves weren't freed in 1865, they were freed in 1942, when the Federal government moved against debt peonage for no other reason they didn't want Axis propagandists to point out that was what we were doing. It actually made concentration camps and comfort women look less bad.

Nothing could be further than the truth. States with strict abortion laws don't have many abortion facilities. Louisiana only has 3. If the Dem governor signs the bill that makes abortion murder, then there will be zero.

No, it just means that abortions will be performed in OB/GYN offices, like they were before Roe.

No she was arrested for endangering the welfare of a child. She was guilty of that.

A child that hadn't been born and didn't have a legal name... Um, yeah, she was prosecuted for having a miscarriage... that's the point, dummy.

I support women making their choice before they conceive. What about you?

When I hear a conservative say this, I realize they forgot what it was like to be young.

Okay, bit of an aside here. When I was in the service, there was a fellow NCO in my unit who was dating this really lovely Asian-American gal. Well, he didn't make good on his promises to marry her, so she "forgot" to take her birth control. Maybe she was trying to trap him into marriage, maybe all those hormones were messing with her head. Whatever. Well, rest assured, she got preggers, and when he still didn't step up to the plate, (It was the 80's and some guys still did that sort of thing) she got an abortion.

Point is, she came from a very traditional family, and was a devout Roman Catholic... but at the end of the day, abortion seemed a better option for her than dropping out of school and telling her parents she wasn't still a virgin at 21.

The problem here is that Youth is wasted on the Young, and Wisdom is wasted on the old.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The problem you guys have is that 61% of Americans support abortion. Good luck finding a jury that doesn't have a majority ready to acquit.

Which goes to the fact that prosecutors won’t even bother to indict.

And no politician is going to tolerate the specter of women and their doctors being criminally prosecuted and imprisoned for doing something women just across the state line are at liberty to do.

‘Banning’ abortion is nothing but political theater – the ‘issue’ of abortion a partisan contrivance of the right intended to drive the base to the polls and use as a political weapon against opponents, having nothing to do with actually ending the practice.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I support women making their choice before they conceive. What about you?

I support women and their doctors deciding what’s best, not government – what about you.

 

[Nostra]

I support women and their doctors deciding what’s best, not government – what about you.

I have no problem with states saying killing babies is wrong.

 

[JimH52]

The rick will travel to the states that allow abortion, the rest will perform self inflicted abortions.

Yup, back to the alleys and back rooms.

 

[JimH52]

I support women and their doctors deciding what’s best, not government – what about you.

Are these the same people who were screaming that, "Guvment has no right to make me wear a mask!"

 

[dudmuck]

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[Blues Man]

If someone kills a pregnant woman they get charged with two murders. So law is on our side along with science.

All you have is the rantings of your Baby Killer Cult.

Irrelevant.

It's obvious to anyone that those charges are unconstitutional.

There are no laws that acknowledge a fetus is a person with the same rights as an adult

 

[Bob Blaylock]

There are no laws that acknowledge a fetus is a person with the same rights as an adult

We don't recognize anyone up to the age of eighteen as having all the rights of an adult. Some rights, not until twenty-one.

That doesn't mean that a child is not a human being; it's just a recognition that some rights require a certain degree of judgement and maturity to properly exercise.

It certainly does not mean that it is acceptable to kill or abuse a child, even back to the sage of conception. A human being is a human being, at every stage of life and development.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

If someone kills a pregnant woman they get charged with two murders. So law is on our side along with science.

It's obvious to anyone that those charges are unconstitutional.

It's only “obvious” to a soulless sociopath such as yourself who refuses to acknowledge the humanity of the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings.

You're no different than a Nazi believing that it is OK to murder Jews. You're no better than that.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

The biggest problem I see with those on the anti-abortion side is that they never tell you how they are going to enforce a ban on abortion.

Lest, we forget, the main reason why the Court (including 5 Republicans) voted to end abortion laws in the US is because they were being routinely ignored by women and their health care providers. The court was merely recognizing the reality the prudes failed to admit.

If anyone doubts this, we only need to look at the birth rates for the 1970's.

Live Births and Birth Rates, by Year

The following table shows the number of live births and the birth rate in the United States between 1910 and...

www.infoplease.com

1970​	3,731,386​	18.4​
1971​	3,555,970​	17.2​
1972​	3,258,411​	15.6​
1973​	3,136,965​	14.9​
1974​	3,159,958​	14.9​
1975​	3,144,198​	14.8​
1976​	3,167,788​	14.8​

There was no sudden drop in the live birth rate because abortions were now available. In fact, it leveled off in 1973.

Why? Because abortion laws were being routinely ignored. Despite all the horror stories told by the abortion rights side about coat hangers and Lysol, most women were ending unwanted pregnancies in the comfort of their OB/GYN's office. Women were never arrested for having abortions, and providers were rarely prosecuted unless some kind of negligence that injured the women was involved

So you get the laws on the books you want in half the country, what happens? Abortions will simply move from abortion clinics back to OB/GYN offices.

if anything, an abortion ban will be harder to enforce in 2022 than in 1973, because more states WILL keep it legal now, because it will be much easier to cross state lines, and because the option of pharmaceutical abortions will be available.

Laws only really work when you have universal agreement there should be a law. If you don't, police won't investigate, prosecutors won't file charges, and juries won't convict.

The first prosecution for a woman for having an abortion will be a lightening rod of unpopularity. The only time I remember Trump ever backing down from saying something really stupid ws when he said that women should be punished for having abortions, and then immediately reversing himself.

Donald Trump retracts call for women who have abortions to be 'punished'

Republican frontrunner tells MSNBC there needs to be ‘some form of punishment’ for women, though he later disavowed controversial remarks

www.theguardian.com

You're almost 50 years behind.

Anyone performing illegal abortions risks losing their medial license and having their assets seized as well as criminal prosecution.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Irrelevant.

It's obvious to anyone that those charges are unconstitutional.

There are no laws that acknowledge a fetus is a person with the same rights as an adult

Those laws have been on the books in some cases for decades and survived every challenge.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Irrelevant.

It's obvious to anyone that those charges are unconstitutional.

There are no laws that acknowledge a fetus is a person with the same rights as an adult

No child at any age has the same rights as an adult.

 

[Blues Man]

Those laws have been on the books in some cases for decades and survived every challenge.

WHen has any of those been brought before the Supreme Court?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

WHen has any of those been brought before the Supreme Court?

I don't know for sure nor am I inclined to spend a few hours looking up every challenge made to them for your benefit.

 

[Blues Man]

No child at any age has the same rights as an adult.

They still have the rights of personhood.

You don;t seem to be aware of the cossequnces of legally granting those same rights to the unborn.

 

[Blues Man]

I don't know for sure nor am I inclined to spend a few hours looking up every challenge made to them for your benefit.

So you refuse to support your own claims. Got it

 

[Blues Man]

It's only “obvious” to a soulless sociopath such as yourself who refuses to acknowledge the humanity of the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings.

You're no different than a Nazi believing that it is OK to murder Jews. You're no better than that.

It's a contradictory law.

If you can;t see that that's your problem

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Fetal homicide laws are on the books in 36 or 38 states if you care to research court challenges to each of them here's where you can start.

Policy Research

NCSL’s experts are here to answer your questions and give you unbiased, comprehensive information as soon as you need it on issues facing state legislatures. We answer more than 20,000 requests for information a year.

www.ncsl.org

 

[Blues Man]

Fetal homicide laws are on the books in 36 or 38 states if you care to research court challenges to each of them here's where you can start.

Policy Research

NCSL’s experts are here to answer your questions and give you unbiased, comprehensive information as soon as you need it on issues facing state legislatures. We answer more than 20,000 requests for information a year.

www.ncsl.org

How many of those have ever been heard by the Supreme Court?