The Unenforceability of abortion bans

[dudmuck]

So you want to play semantics about the stages of development of humans. I guess you're conveniently forgetting that in many States, if you murder a pregnant woman, you can be charged with two counts of murder, one for the woman and one for the unborn child. And then there's this:

Violence against Pro-Lifers - Why Pro-Life?

****This article will continue to be updated with incidents as they happen.**** Recently, we profiled acts of violence against abortion clinic property and staff. News stories on the topic abound in the mainstream media. There are fewer articles about violence against pro-lifers. Most people can...

www.whyprolife.com

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[Nostra]

Dimtards get their science from the IRS.

 

[dudmuck]

Dimtards get their science from the IRS.

law, not science.

 

[Nostra]

law, not science.

Thanks for admitting you are a science denier.

 

[OKTexas]

Never gonna happen, buddy. We don't throw jurors in prison for not ruling the way the court wants...

The problem you guys have is that 61% of Americans support abortion. Good luck finding a jury that doesn't have a majority ready to acquit.



Hey, your fucking ignorance isn't an argument. It's just displaying your ignorance.

But here's some LIGHT reading.

Bei Bei Shuai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Purvi Patel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The first case didn't involve a miscarriage. And the second was overturned by a higher court. NEXT.

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[dudmuck]

Thanks for admitting you are a science denier.

i'm totally on board with science and objective thinking and critical thinking.

But whether a fetus is a person is the subject of law.

 

[JoeB131]

The first case didn't involve a miscarriage. And the second was overturned by a higher court. NEXT.

Your statement was that

Bullshit, I've never heard of anyone being punished over a miscarriage. Me thinks you're pushing commie propaganda again.

Except these women WERE Punished. They went to jail. They were prosecuted. Patels conviction was overturned after public outcry, and Ms. Shaui was bullied into accepting a lesser plea.

And, yes, Ms Shaui had a miscarriage after a suicide attempt. THat's what she was arrested for.

 

[Nostra]

i'm totally on board with science and objective thinking and critical thinking.

But whether a fetus is a person is the subject of law.

No, it is a matter of science. And science says life begins at conception.

You are being redirected...

Why a Human Being Begins At Conception - NAAPC

Scientists Attest To Life Beginning At Conception By Randy Alcorn Some of the world’s most prominent scientists and physicians testified to a U.S. Senate committee that human life begins at conception: A United States Senate Judiciary Subcommittee invited experts to testify on the question of...

naapc.org

 

[dudmuck]

No, it is a matter of science. And science says life begins at conception.

You are being redirected...

Why a Human Being Begins At Conception - NAAPC

Scientists Attest To Life Beginning At Conception By Randy Alcorn Some of the world’s most prominent scientists and physicians testified to a U.S. Senate committee that human life begins at conception: A United States Senate Judiciary Subcommittee invited experts to testify on the question of...

naapc.org

when life begins cannot be answered by science

"It is uncertain when human life begins." | The San Antonio Coalition for Life

sacfl.org

and also, the American College of Pediatrics is an anti-lgbt hate group.

 

[JimH52]

This may be the goal of the repub party:

Woman Sentenced to 30 Years in Prison Over Miscarriage

El Salvador has a history of sentences like this for pregnancy loss

www.newser.com

Man who are the other party in conceptions walk free. This is the repub party wet dream.

 

[Who_Me?]

"The American College of Pediatricians concurs with the body of scientific evidence that human life begins at conception - fertilization…. Scientific and medical discoveries over the past three decades have only verified and solidified this age-old truth. At the completion of the process of fertilization, the human creature emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is not one of personhood but of development. The Mission of the American College of Pediatricians is to enable all children to reach their optimal physical and emotional health and well-being from the moment of conception."

The focus therefore should be preventing unwanted pregnancy, not killing the baby.

 

[JoeB131]

The focus therefore should be preventing unwanted pregnancy, not killing the baby.

Okay, so when do you guys stop cutting funds to Planned Parenthood
Encourage open discussion of sexuality in the schools
Support universal health care
Support paid family leave.

That would prevent abortions.

Won't happen, though.

 

[Blues Man]

when life begins cannot be answered by science

"It is uncertain when human life begins." | The San Antonio Coalition for Life

sacfl.org

and also, the American College of Pediatrics is an anti-lgbt hate group.

When life has legal rights is a matter of law.

When a fetus besoms a legal entity in the eyes of the law has nothing to do with science.

We need to realize the consequences of calling a 2 celled zygote a legal person with rights.

 

[skews13]

Joe, you ignorant slut. Just quit your bitching. All this Supreme Court decision means is that now abortion will be treated like almost all other issues and will be up to the discretion of the States and Locals.

If a woman wants to kill her child for birth control all she will have to do is go to one of the Commie states. The Commie states love killing children.

The discretion of the states huh?

So there should be no problems with all the new gun laws coming in those states right?

 

[Penelope]

The biggest problem I see with those on the anti-abortion side is that they never tell you how they are going to enforce a ban on abortion.

Lest, we forget, the main reason why the Court (including 5 Republicans) voted to end abortion laws in the US is because they were being routinely ignored by women and their health care providers. The court was merely recognizing the reality the prudes failed to admit.

If anyone doubts this, we only need to look at the birth rates for the 1970's.

Live Births and Birth Rates, by Year

The following table shows the number of live births and the birth rate in the United States between 1910 and...

www.infoplease.com

1970​	3,731,386​	18.4​
1971​	3,555,970​	17.2​
1972​	3,258,411​	15.6​
1973​	3,136,965​	14.9​
1974​	3,159,958​	14.9​
1975​	3,144,198​	14.8​
1976​	3,167,788​	14.8​

There was no sudden drop in the live birth rate because abortions were now available. In fact, it leveled off in 1973.

Why? Because abortion laws were being routinely ignored. Despite all the horror stories told by the abortion rights side about coat hangers and Lysol, most women were ending unwanted pregnancies in the comfort of their OB/GYN's office. Women were never arrested for having abortions, and providers were rarely prosecuted unless some kind of negligence that injured the women was involved

So you get the laws on the books you want in half the country, what happens? Abortions will simply move from abortion clinics back to OB/GYN offices.

if anything, an abortion ban will be harder to enforce in 2022 than in 1973, because more states WILL keep it legal now, because it will be much easier to cross state lines, and because the option of pharmaceutical abortions will be available.

Laws only really work when you have universal agreement there should be a law. If you don't, police won't investigate, prosecutors won't file charges, and juries won't convict.

The first prosecution for a woman for having an abortion will be a lightening rod of unpopularity. The only time I remember Trump ever backing down from saying something really stupid ws when he said that women should be punished for having abortions, and then immediately reversing himself.

Donald Trump retracts call for women who have abortions to be 'punished'

Republican frontrunner tells MSNBC there needs to be ‘some form of punishment’ for women, though he later disavowed controversial remarks

www.theguardian.com

The rick will travel to the states that allow abortion, the rest will perform self inflicted abortions.

 

[Penelope]

No difference, the anti ACA , the poorest healthcare, want you to carry a baby to full term so they can have more to adopt, incubators they are called.

Maternal Mortality Rate by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Okay, so when do you guys stop cutting funds to Planned Parenthood

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That would prevent abortions.

So, the way to stop these murders is to give more funding to the organization that is committing its lion's share of these murders?

Even by Incel Joe standards, this is a batshit crazy claim.

As for your other demands…

Encourage open discussion of sexuality in the schools

We've seen what kind of “open discussion of sexuality in the schools” your side wants. That is one of the reasons your side is going to get its ass seriously kicked this upcoming election.

Your side is openly embracing groomers and pedophiles, and mainstream Americans have no stomach for this depraved shit. A great many of us would rather hunt down all of your kind and exterminate you, than allow you any control over our children.

Support universal health care
Support paid family leave.

And here, once again, you're showing the mindset of a terrorist. Cave in to our political demands, or we'll keep murdering children. And these demands include allowing you to sexually abuse the children that you don't murder.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

We need to realize the consequences of calling a 2 celled zygote a legal person with rights.

Just as we once had to come to terms with the consequences of calling a black person a legal person with rights.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The discretion of the states huh?
So there should be no problems with all the new gun laws coming in those states right?

The Constitution explicitly affirms the people's right to keep and bear arms, and forbids any infringement of this right.

The Tenth Amendment does not entitle states to violate explicitly-declared Constitutional rights.

 

[Blues Man]

Just as we once had to come to terms with the consequences of calling a black person a legal person with rights.

Not the same thing at all.

Granting a born person the rights of other born persons is not anything like granting a 2 celled embryo the same rights.

The biggest and most obvious difference is that granting a born person rights has absolutely no effect on the rights of other born persons.

Granting an embryo rights has a profound effect on the rights of the pregnant woman and then the choice has to be made whether the woman's rights or the embryo's rights take precedence

So your analogy fails at the most basic level