The War On Marriage

[mudwhistle]

People criticize the family pictured becasuse they continue to have children knowing how dangerous it is for those future children.


I think the decline of marriage is partly because of societal changes, and partly because of government incentives.

Dangerous?

 

[Dreamy]

There is no attack on marriage. The big difference today is that people have choices that they didn't have before.

They can choose not to get married, they can choose not to continue an unhappy marriage, they can choose whether or not to have children and how many children.

Anyone that wants to have a life-time marriage can do so. They can also have as many children as they want.

The BIG problem is that everyone is led to believe that they must get married, they must have children, and they must stay married for their entire lifetime. That there's some great immorality if they don't.

This causes a lot of people to get married and have children when that's not what they really want. That causes marriages to fail and children to be unwanted.

No, there is no attack on marriage. There is only a constant unrealistic expectation that everyone should be married and have children. That doesn't work for many people.

I think part of what Mud's OP was addressing and might be grounds for a discussion is whether marriage is the most important element of our society? If the answer is yes then we would want to nurture it. If the answer is no then I would say that the future ahead will determine which is closer to the truth because marriages have declined greatly since 1960.

 

[G.T.]

People criticize the family pictured becasuse they continue to have children knowing how dangerous it is for those future children.


I think the decline of marriage is partly because of societal changes, and partly because of government incentives.

Dangerous?

Nuclear winter.
Testier climate.
Over-population.

 

[rightwinger]

I grew up in the 60s and most families had four to six kids, mom stayed at home and dad supported the family on one income. Divorce was rare

What happened?

Birth Control: Family planning became the norm and women did not get pregnant every other year

Women started to work: More good paying career fields opened up to women. They no longer had to stay in unhappy marriages for financial reasons

Divorce lost its stigma: You were no longer a marked woman if you divorced

The standard of living declined: Dad could no longer support a family on a blue collar income. It went from mom can work if she wants, to mom HAS to work.

 

[AmyNation]

People criticize the family pictured becasuse they continue to have children knowing how dangerous it is for those future children.


I think the decline of marriage is partly because of societal changes, and partly because of government incentives.

Dangerous?

Yes.

Women aren't slip and slides. Pregnancy is hard on the body and something that was meant for the young. The last few pregnancys she's had have resulted in her near death, the death of the fetus, and a disabled child.

All of those consequences aren't shocking, they knew what they were risking by continuing to have children. When you open your life up to the public, you give the public the right to have an opinion.

 

[Plasmaball]

What about freedom of choice? My eldest has not been married and does not plan on it. i doubt it was because of liberals, it's his choice and hedoesn't want to have to go through the conflicts of adjusting to someones way of life by giving uo his.

then i don't think he understands what marriage is. He could always become a monk.

Anyways that womans vag has to be stapled to her legs in order to walk. holy crap 17 kids.

 

[High_Gravity]

If you want to bring down a society the quickest way is to attack the most important element of that society. Marriage.

I know this is old fashioned to think this way but that's my point. Marriage isn't what it used to be. It even has become an object of scorn by the left.

"Having to get married before getting pregnant? Are you kidding me???"

I used to think that white middle-class 50-60 year old males were the most hated group in America, but really the one group that is the focus of the most bigotry is the family unit. It's just not cool to be married. Marriage holds women back. In some people's minds it is the same as slavery.

It's easy for some to be married and still be highly critical of it. Being married is a pain in the butt. I think the best way to punish someone is to force them to marry someone they don't want to or to be forced into marriage because of a pregnancy. Gays want to be able to marry but the Gay activists show a palatable disdain for straight couples. The tables have been turned in our society to the point where if you say you're married and support the institution you're an outcast. What is normal has been redefined.

Having children out of wedlock is the quickest road to poverty. Kids are expensive and having only one income just isn't enough to make ends meet. It almost assures that you will become dependent one way or another on governmental assistance. So in effect government stands in the way of the family being a successful enterprise. For decades single mothers have been encouraged to stay single with cash handouts from Uncle Sugar.

Pictured above is a large family. Many find fault in this. Many assumptions can be made of the family pictured. 50 years ago this was normal in America. Now having one or two kids is the norm, at least among whites. Having children isn't the reason one gets married anymore. You don't need to make the commitment. Funny thing is there are reasons the old ways worked better. Pooling resources is the best way to get ahead or at least keep your head above water.

19 kids were normal 50 years ago? you sure bro? I know Magic Johnson grew up with 9 brothers and sisters but 19 kids is a bit much, even for back than.

I'm counting 17, but I had 4 brothers and sisters and my wife had 12 that lived to make it out of diapers.

My point is what is considered a normal family has changed. I don't think it's an improvement. Each case is different but what passes for normal has new problems that go with it.

I think cost of living is an issue though, just 1 child is so bloody expensive paying for clothes, formula, diapers, daycare etc etc its really hard to have more than a couple kids unless you want to go on assistance, the people I know that have alot of kids are not responsible and they all have different fathers.

Nevermind you were right, its 17.

 

[mudwhistle]

I grew up in the 60s and most families had four to six kids, mom stayed at home and dad supported the family on one income. Divorce was rare

What happened?

Birth Control: Family planning became the norm and women did not get pregnant every other year

Women started to work: More good paying career fields opened up to women. They no longer had to stay in unhappy marriages for financial reasons

Divorce lost its stigma: You were no longer a marked woman if you divorced

The standard of living declined: Dad could no longer support a family on a blue collar income. It went from mom can work if she wants, to mom HAS to work.

One study I looked at found that the more income a couple has the fewer children and vice-verse.

Most immigrants have large families.

The more liberal a family is the less likely they have 2 or more children.

 

[High_Gravity]

I grew up in the 60s and most families had four to six kids, mom stayed at home and dad supported the family on one income. Divorce was rare

What happened?

Birth Control: Family planning became the norm and women did not get pregnant every other year

Women started to work: More good paying career fields opened up to women. They no longer had to stay in unhappy marriages for financial reasons

Divorce lost its stigma: You were no longer a marked woman if you divorced

The standard of living declined: Dad could no longer support a family on a blue collar income. It went from mom can work if she wants, to mom HAS to work.

You just nailed it.

 

[Jarhead]

What about freedom of choice? My eldest has not been married and does not plan on it. i doubt it was because of liberals, it's his choice and hedoesn't want to have to go through the conflicts of adjusting to someones way of life by giving uo his.

then i don't think he understands what marriage is. He could always become a monk.

Anyways that womans vag has to be stapled to her legs in order to walk. holy crap 17 kids.

If she hiccuped while making love to her husband, he would likely find himslef inside looking out.

 

[High_Gravity]

I grew up in the 60s and most families had four to six kids, mom stayed at home and dad supported the family on one income. Divorce was rare

What happened?

Birth Control: Family planning became the norm and women did not get pregnant every other year

Women started to work: More good paying career fields opened up to women. They no longer had to stay in unhappy marriages for financial reasons

Divorce lost its stigma: You were no longer a marked woman if you divorced

The standard of living declined: Dad could no longer support a family on a blue collar income. It went from mom can work if she wants, to mom HAS to work.

One study I looked at found that the more income a couple has the fewer children and vice-verse.

Most immigrants have large families.

The more liberal a family is the less likely they have 2 or more children.

That is true, but the thing is alot of these immigrants that have 5 or 6 kids do it on a dish washers salary and survive off food stamps and cash aid.

 

[Jarhead]

I grew up in the 60s and most families had four to six kids, mom stayed at home and dad supported the family on one income. Divorce was rare

What happened?

Birth Control: Family planning became the norm and women did not get pregnant every other year

Women started to work: More good paying career fields opened up to women. They no longer had to stay in unhappy marriages for financial reasons

Divorce lost its stigma: You were no longer a marked woman if you divorced

The standard of living declined: Dad could no longer support a family on a blue collar income. It went from mom can work if she wants, to mom HAS to work.

You just nailed it.

that is more a result of people wanting more than just what they need.

Years ago, it was about necessities.

One income can afford necessities. The second income is required so they can afford wants.

 

[Plasmaball]

I grew up in the 60s and most families had four to six kids, mom stayed at home and dad supported the family on one income. Divorce was rare

What happened?

Birth Control: Family planning became the norm and women did not get pregnant every other year

Women started to work: More good paying career fields opened up to women. They no longer had to stay in unhappy marriages for financial reasons

Divorce lost its stigma: You were no longer a marked woman if you divorced

The standard of living declined: Dad could no longer support a family on a blue collar income. It went from mom can work if she wants, to mom HAS to work.

One study I looked at found that the more income a couple has the fewer children and vice-verse.

Most immigrants have large families.

The more liberal a family is the less likely they have 2 or more children.

That is true, but the thing is alot of these immigrants that have 5 or 6 kids do it on a dish washers salary and survive off food stamps and cash aid.

and don't use birth control. You would think we would rather people use birth control than welfare, but we don't. We rather them breed and then whine when they can't afford the 30 kids the woman spawns out.

 

[High_Gravity]

If you are suggesting that my 20 year marriage is unnecessary and invalid because we don't have children I take offense and would yell you go straight to hell.

The happiest married couples I know don't have children.

My wife of nearly 3 decades and I have 2 children and we have a reputation of being the happiest married couple in our town.

Happiness encompasses ALL aspects of life...and if you handle life with optimism, there will be the perfect balance .

Thats the difference though, you guys are from a more mature generation, not this Jersey Shore lets fuck everything that moves generation that I am putting up with now.

 

[High_Gravity]

One study I looked at found that the more income a couple has the fewer children and vice-verse.

Most immigrants have large families.

The more liberal a family is the less likely they have 2 or more children.

That is true, but the thing is alot of these immigrants that have 5 or 6 kids do it on a dish washers salary and survive off food stamps and cash aid.

and don't use birth control. You would think we would rather people use birth control than welfare, but we don't. We rather them breed and then whine when they can't afford the 30 kids the woman spawns out.

Birth control needs to be encouraged imo.

 

[mudwhistle]

19 kids were normal 50 years ago? you sure bro? I know Magic Johnson grew up with 9 brothers and sisters but 19 kids is a bit much, even for back than.

I'm counting 17, but I had 4 brothers and sisters and my wife had 12 that lived to make it out of diapers.

My point is what is considered a normal family has changed. I don't think it's an improvement. Each case is different but what passes for normal has new problems that go with it.

I think cost of living is an issue though, just 1 child is so bloody expensive paying for clothes, formula, diapers, daycare etc etc its really hard to have more than a couple kids unless you want to go on assistance, the people I know that have alot of kids are not responsible and they all have different fathers.

Nevermind you were right, its 17.

Brain fart.

 

[BreezeWood]

The War On Marriage


not on Marriage, on those who are not willing to share the Garden and who define Marriage solely as the above.

 

[rightwinger]

I grew up in the 60s and most families had four to six kids, mom stayed at home and dad supported the family on one income. Divorce was rare

What happened?

Birth Control: Family planning became the norm and women did not get pregnant every other year

Women started to work: More good paying career fields opened up to women. They no longer had to stay in unhappy marriages for financial reasons

Divorce lost its stigma: You were no longer a marked woman if you divorced

The standard of living declined: Dad could no longer support a family on a blue collar income. It went from mom can work if she wants, to mom HAS to work.

One study I looked at found that the more income a couple has the fewer children and vice-verse.

Most immigrants have large families.

The more liberal a family is the less likely they have 2 or more children.

Idiocracy

Rich educated people over analyze having children while the poor uneducated spit them out like crazy

 

[Jarhead]

The happiest married couples I know don't have children.

My wife of nearly 3 decades and I have 2 children and we have a reputation of being the happiest married couple in our town.

Happiness encompasses ALL aspects of life...and if you handle life with optimism, there will be the perfect balance .

Thats the difference though, you guys are from a more mature generation, not this Jersey Shore lets fuck everything that moves generation that I am putting up with now.

I had to put up with the hippie generation; the cold war; and many other societal distractions.....do not allow your generation distractions to be your crutch...we all had them. You can find happiness within....and the key is to find a spouse or partner who is on the same page.

 

[mudwhistle]

What about freedom of choice? My eldest has not been married and does not plan on it. i doubt it was because of liberals, it's his choice and hedoesn't want to have to go through the conflicts of adjusting to someones way of life by giving uo his.

then i don't think he understands what marriage is. He could always become a monk.

Anyways that womans vag has to be stapled to her legs in order to walk. holy crap 17 kids.

Some women can do it and some can't.

But then we're getting into natural selection and that's another topic.