The word "period"

[George Costanza]

yeah, I know this has already been covered, but I am looking for one dem/lib who is honest enough to admit that obama lied. probably like looking for rubies in my garden.

I'll admit that Obama lied if you will admit that George H.W. Bush lied when he said "read my lips."

The answer, of course, is that neither of them lied. What they both said seemed like a good idea at the time - it just didn't work out. That's not a lie. It might be mega piece of misjudgment, but it is not a lie.

in order to prove that either of them lied, you would have to be able to show knowledge on their part that it would not work out the way they were talking and an intent to decieve.

Here's your problem, Georgie...

Either Barack Obama DID know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and told a bald faced lie to the American people repeatedly over a FIVE YEAR period...

Or...

He DIDN'T know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and misjudged the situation about as badly as one possibly could...

So your choice of poisons is either Barry is a serial liar...or he's incompetent...

I was only addressing a post that assumed a lie was told when there is nothing to prove that it was. Too many people on boards like this like to scream "liar" when something doesn't turn out.

I don't think that President Obama is either a liar or incompetent. I recognize that the Republican Noise Machine assumes that he is both. So what else is new?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'll admit that Obama lied if you will admit that George H.W. Bush lied when he said "read my lips."

The answer, of course, is that neither of them lied. What they both said seemed like a good idea at the time - it just didn't work out. That's not a lie. It might be mega piece of misjudgment, but it is not a lie.

in order to prove that either of them lied, you would have to be able to show knowledge on their part that it would not work out the way they were talking and an intent to decieve.

Here's your problem, Georgie...

Either Barack Obama DID know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and told a bald faced lie to the American people repeatedly over a FIVE YEAR period...

Or...

He DIDN'T know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and misjudged the situation about as badly as one possibly could...

So your choice of poisons is either Barry is a serial liar...or he's incompetent...

I was only addressing a post that assumed a lie was told when there is nothing to prove that it was. Too many people on boards like this like to scream "liar" when something doesn't turn out.

I don't think that President Obama is either a liar or incompetent. I recognize that the Republican Noise Machine assumes that he is both. So what else is new?

The problem with your enlightened position is that there is actual evidence, from Obama's own mouth, that he knew he was lying.

 

[The T]

Here's your problem, Georgie...

Either Barack Obama DID know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and told a bald faced lie to the American people repeatedly over a FIVE YEAR period...

Or...

He DIDN'T know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and misjudged the situation about as badly as one possibly could...

So your choice of poisons is either Barry is a serial liar...or he's incompetent...

I was only addressing a post that assumed a lie was told when there is nothing to prove that it was. Too many people on boards like this like to scream "liar" when something doesn't turn out.

I don't think that President Obama is either a liar or incompetent. I recognize that the Republican Noise Machine assumes that he is both. So what else is new?

The problem with your enlightened position is that there is actual evidence, from Obama's own mouth, that he knew he was lying.

Yes there is. Obama knew, HHS knew, the Democrats knew...they voted for it. Republicans knew as well...and why none voted for it.

 

[Ame®icano]

 

[George Costanza]

Here's your problem, Georgie...

Either Barack Obama DID know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and told a bald faced lie to the American people repeatedly over a FIVE YEAR period...

Or...

He DIDN'T know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and misjudged the situation about as badly as one possibly could...

So your choice of poisons is either Barry is a serial liar...or he's incompetent...

I was only addressing a post that assumed a lie was told when there is nothing to prove that it was. Too many people on boards like this like to scream "liar" when something doesn't turn out.

I don't think that President Obama is either a liar or incompetent. I recognize that the Republican Noise Machine assumes that he is both. So what else is new?

The problem with your enlightened position is that there is actual evidence, from Obama's own mouth, that he knew he was lying.

What evidence is that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I was only addressing a post that assumed a lie was told when there is nothing to prove that it was. Too many people on boards like this like to scream "liar" when something doesn't turn out.

I don't think that President Obama is either a liar or incompetent. I recognize that the Republican Noise Machine assumes that he is both. So what else is new?

The problem with your enlightened position is that there is actual evidence, from Obama's own mouth, that he knew he was lying.

What evidence is that?

This is one example of him admitting the law would force people off their policies.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healthcare-insurance-govt-healthcare/324294-stray-cats-and-dogs.html

 

[George Costanza]

The problem with your enlightened position is that there is actual evidence, from Obama's own mouth, that he knew he was lying.

What evidence is that?

This is one example of him admitting the law would force people off their policies.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healthcare-insurance-govt-healthcare/324294-stray-cats-and-dogs.html

How does that make him a liar?

Look - I am fully prepared to admit that our President screwed up. But screwing up isn't lying. I know that you know the difference between an intentional act and a negligent act. They used to tell us in law school, "even a stray dog knows the difference between being kicked and being stumbled over."

Show me something that establishes that President Obama knew from the outset (and we will define "outset" as prior to his election in 2008) that people would not be allowed to keep their existing coverage if they went with his national healthcare program, and thereafter, with that knowledge, represented otherwise, and I will concede that he is a liar.

What you have here doesn't even come close.

 

[Redfish]

What evidence is that?

This is one example of him admitting the law would force people off their policies.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healthcare-insurance-govt-healthcare/324294-stray-cats-and-dogs.html

How does that make him a liar?

Look - I am fully prepared to admit that our President screwed up. But screwing up isn't lying. I know that you know the difference between an intentional act and a negligent act. They used to tell us in law school, "even a stray dog knows the difference between being kicked and being stumbled over."

Show me something that establishes that President Obama knew from the outset (and we will define "outset" as prior to his election in 2008) that people would not be allowed to keep their existing coverage if they went with his national healthcare program, and thereafter, with that knowledge, represented otherwise, and I will concede that he is a liar.

What you have here doesn't even come close.

Even the liberal media has made that case. Do you get TV on your planet?

 

[The T]

This is one example of him admitting the law would force people off their policies.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healthcare-insurance-govt-healthcare/324294-stray-cats-and-dogs.html

How does that make him a liar?

Look - I am fully prepared to admit that our President screwed up. But screwing up isn't lying. I know that you know the difference between an intentional act and a negligent act. They used to tell us in law school, "even a stray dog knows the difference between being kicked and being stumbled over."

Show me something that establishes that President Obama knew from the outset (and we will define "outset" as prior to his election in 2008) that people would not be allowed to keep their existing coverage if they went with his national healthcare program, and thereafter, with that knowledge, represented otherwise, and I will concede that he is a liar.

What you have here doesn't even come close.

Even the liberal media has made that case. Do you get TV on your planet?

Note the minimizing of the lie? The left has down to a science...even when they look absolutely stupid doing it.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'll admit that Obama lied if you will admit that George H.W. Bush lied when he said "read my lips."

The answer, of course, is that neither of them lied. What they both said seemed like a good idea at the time - it just didn't work out. That's not a lie. It might be mega piece of misjudgment, but it is not a lie.

in order to prove that either of them lied, you would have to be able to show knowledge on their part that it would not work out the way they were talking and an intent to decieve.

Here's your problem, Georgie...

Either Barack Obama DID know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and told a bald faced lie to the American people repeatedly over a FIVE YEAR period...

Or...

He DIDN'T know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and misjudged the situation about as badly as one possibly could...

So your choice of poisons is either Barry is a serial liar...or he's incompetent...

I was only addressing a post that assumed a lie was told when there is nothing to prove that it was. Too many people on boards like this like to scream "liar" when something doesn't turn out.

I don't think that President Obama is either a liar or incompetent. I recognize that the Republican Noise Machine assumes that he is both. So what else is new?

As I said before, Georgie...you're basically left with only two explanations...either Barry knew that people would in fact not be able to keep their plans (which makes him a liar) or he didn't understand that would happen (which makes him incompetent).

After seeing the inter-administration conflicts over making that statement way back in 2010 I'm leaning towards Obama knowing full well that he wasn't telling the truth but doing it anyways because he didn't feel like the main stream media would call him on it.

 

[The T]

Here's your problem, Georgie...

Either Barack Obama DID know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and told a bald faced lie to the American people repeatedly over a FIVE YEAR period...

Or...

He DIDN'T know that ObamaCare would not work out the way he was talking and misjudged the situation about as badly as one possibly could...

So your choice of poisons is either Barry is a serial liar...or he's incompetent...

I was only addressing a post that assumed a lie was told when there is nothing to prove that it was. Too many people on boards like this like to scream "liar" when something doesn't turn out.

I don't think that President Obama is either a liar or incompetent. I recognize that the Republican Noise Machine assumes that he is both. So what else is new?

As I said before, Georgie...you're basically left with only two explanations...either Barry knew that people would in fact not be able to keep their plans (which makes him a liar) or he didn't understand that would happen (which makes him incompetent).

After seeing the inter-administration conflicts over making that statement way back in 2010 I'm leaning towards Obama knowing full well that he wasn't telling the truth but doing it anyways because he didn't feel like the main stream media would call him on it.

Indeed. Obama is the consummate politician, remains detached...and lets others fall on their swords FOR him...and look for that house of cards to cease, fall...his creds are dwindling.

He knows damn full well what's going on.(As POTUS, how could he NOT unless he is incompetent)? Only the perpetually stupid will continue to defend him.

 

[George Costanza]

It's very simply, guys - provide me with credible (not subjective) information that Obama knew and then lied. So far, I am seeing a lot of subjective (and partisan) speculation, but nothing concrete.

Look - I'm not that much in love with Obama; never have been. He was not my first choice for pres. back in 2008 and I am not that thrilled with much that he has done since being in office. I am perfectly capable of accepting the fact that he lied on this, once I see independent proof that he did so. NOT a bunch of folks who are calling him a liar merely because he made a bad judgment call.

 

[The T]

It's very simply, guys - provide me with credible (not subjective) information that Obama knew and then lied. So far, I am seeing a lot of subjective (and partisan) speculation, but nothing concrete.

Look - I'm not that much in love with Obama; never have been. He was not my first choice for pres. back in 2008 and I am not that thrilled with much that he has done since being in office. I am perfectly capable of accepting the fact that he lied on this, once I see independent proof that he did so. NOT a bunch of folks who are calling him a liar merely because he made a bad judgment call.

The word PERIOD when used at the end of a sentence has only but ONE connotation Georgie Boy. YOU cannot twist the meaning of words no matter how hard you try. Obama LIED. Democrats LIED. YOU perpetuate the lie.

Truth is not your friend. Truth has no agenda. YOU DO.

 

[Ame®icano]

It's very simply, guys - provide me with credible (not subjective) information that Obama knew and then lied. So far, I am seeing a lot of subjective (and partisan) speculation, but nothing concrete.

Look - I'm not that much in love with Obama; never have been. He was not my first choice for pres. back in 2008 and I am not that thrilled with much that he has done since being in office. I am perfectly capable of accepting the fact that he lied on this, once I see independent proof that he did so. NOT a bunch of folks who are calling him a liar merely because he made a bad judgment call.

The word PERIOD when used at the end of a sentence has only but ONE connotation Georgie Boy. YOU cannot twist the meaning of words no matter how hard you try. Obama LIED. Democrats LIED. YOU perpetuate the lie.

Truth is not your friend. Truth has no agenda. YOU DO.

Let's scale it back a little, T.

Barry and democrats were promising "if you like it, you keep it". What George is saying is that at all 30+ time he was doing so he believed that's the truth. The question is, did Barry knew he couldn't deliver on that promise and intentionally mislead the public, or he didn't know what would be in the law.

If he knew, then he lied.
If he didn't know, then technically he didn't lie, but... then why did he signed the law that was in big part passed based on his promise.

Now its up to people to decide what they believe in.

Like with many other things, I believe he lied.

 

[Redfish]

Obama lied--------Period.

 

[The T]

It's very simply, guys - provide me with credible (not subjective) information that Obama knew and then lied. So far, I am seeing a lot of subjective (and partisan) speculation, but nothing concrete.

Look - I'm not that much in love with Obama; never have been. He was not my first choice for pres. back in 2008 and I am not that thrilled with much that he has done since being in office. I am perfectly capable of accepting the fact that he lied on this, once I see independent proof that he did so. NOT a bunch of folks who are calling him a liar merely because he made a bad judgment call.

The word PERIOD when used at the end of a sentence has only but ONE connotation Georgie Boy. YOU cannot twist the meaning of words no matter how hard you try. Obama LIED. Democrats LIED. YOU perpetuate the lie.

Truth is not your friend. Truth has no agenda. YOU DO.

Let's scale it back a little, T.

Barry and democrats were promising "if you like it, you keep it". What George is saying is that at all 30+ time he was doing so he believed that's the truth. The question is, did Barry knew he couldn't deliver on that promise and intentionally mislead the public, or he didn't know what would be in the law.

If he knew, then he lied.
If he didn't know, then technically he didn't lie, but... then why did he signed the law that was in big part passed based on his promise.

Now its up to people to decide what they believe in.

Like with many other things, I believe he lied.

As do I. The man lied. It's plain and it was intentional.

 

[BlindBoo]

What is it about Obamacare that compels seemingly intelligent people to explode in bubbling spasms of stupid? Are they misinformed? Unable to see past the rage-fueled partisan sweat dripping into their eyes? Or just plain dishonest?

No matter. At this point, it has become obvious that history will look back on the four-year war on Obamacare as one of the saddest, most bizarre, and most dishonestly embarrassing episodes of our time.

Are Republicans So Frantic to Stop Obamacare Because They Fear It Will Work? | Vanity Fair

 

[Redfish]

What is it about Obamacare that compels seemingly intelligent people to explode in bubbling spasms of stupid? Are they misinformed? Unable to see past the rage-fueled partisan sweat dripping into their eyes? Or just plain dishonest?

No matter. At this point, it has become obvious that history will look back on the four-year war on Obamacare as one of the saddest, most bizarre, and most dishonestly embarrassing episodes of our time.

Are Republicans So Frantic to Stop Obamacare Because They Fear It Will Work? | Vanity Fair

because its a terrible law designed to fix a non existent problem by taking over 1/6 of the national economy.

it has been a very good period for the country because people are expressing their beliefs, fears, and visions for this great country. This is a good thing for the USA to be having this debate.

 

[BlindBoo]

What is it about Obamacare that compels seemingly intelligent people to explode in bubbling spasms of stupid? Are they misinformed? Unable to see past the rage-fueled partisan sweat dripping into their eyes? Or just plain dishonest?

No matter. At this point, it has become obvious that history will look back on the four-year war on Obamacare as one of the saddest, most bizarre, and most dishonestly embarrassing episodes of our time.

Are Republicans So Frantic to Stop Obamacare Because They Fear It Will Work? | Vanity Fair

because its a terrible law designed to fix a non existent problem by taking over 1/6 of the national economy.

it has been a very good period for the country because people are expressing their beliefs, fears, and visions for this great country. This is a good thing for the USA to be having this debate.

It's not totally terrible as there are a lot of benefits. It is a flat out lie that there were not problems with the old system. it is a flat out lie that the ACA is a take over by the feds of 1/6th of the economy.

The debate will be how to fix it to work better, not repeal it with nothing to replace it with.

 

[Redfish]

What is it about Obamacare that compels seemingly intelligent people to explode in bubbling spasms of stupid? Are they misinformed? Unable to see past the rage-fueled partisan sweat dripping into their eyes? Or just plain dishonest?

No matter. At this point, it has become obvious that history will look back on the four-year war on Obamacare as one of the saddest, most bizarre, and most dishonestly embarrassing episodes of our time.

Are Republicans So Frantic to Stop Obamacare Because They Fear It Will Work? | Vanity Fair

because its a terrible law designed to fix a non existent problem by taking over 1/6 of the national economy.

it has been a very good period for the country because people are expressing their beliefs, fears, and visions for this great country. This is a good thing for the USA to be having this debate.

It's not totally terrible as there are a lot of benefits. It is a flat out lie that there were not problems with the old system. it is a flat out lie that the ACA is a take over by the feds of 1/6th of the economy.

The debate will be how to fix it to work better, not repeal it with nothing to replace it with.

wrong, boo boo.

there are 2 good lines in the ACA law
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. there can be no lifetime maximum payments

the rest of it is crap and should be scrapped.

The end game of the dems and libs has always been single payer govt run healthcare i.e. taking over 1/6 of the economy. This law was the first step.

Where is tort reform?
Where is interstate competition?
Where are tax free health saving accounts?

Why is there a real estate tax in a healthcare law?
Why are unions going to be exempt from the per worker tax?
Why was the employer mandate delayed?
Where is the website?
Where is the $2500/year savings that obama promised everyone?

Its a terrible mess. Scrapping it and starting over is the only sensible way forward.

This time how about some open debate and discussion with both parties allowed to participate and the people allowed to listen in?