The word "period"

[Quantum Windbag]

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

So let's see if I understand how this works...Barry tells the American people something that he KNOWS is never going to happen and you want to set the "framework" by discussing W. and Iraq? I take it that's an admission by you that there IS no defense for the lies that Obama told for the past five years? That your only refuge has become that others have lied as well so therefore Obama's lies, lies that will affect 1/6 of our total economy and the health care of millions of Americans, aren't a big deal?

I was reminding the 'nuts around here of their hypocrisy.

Do you want me to end the debate set up in the OP? Fine.

Impeachable offenses are crimes. It is not a criminal offense for a politician to make promises he doesn't keep.

If it were George Bush Sr.'s promise of no new taxes would have been an impeachable offense, and no sane person believes that.

Not true, impeachable offenses are whatever Congress decides they are. If you don't believe me I can provide actual evidence of Congress using impeachment to remove people who they did not accuse of any crime. In fact, they once used it to remove a guy who simply said something they disagreed with, and the courts upheld it because that power is solely in the power of Congress.

But I do thank you for trying to rewrite the Constitution, again.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

This morning on one of my local radio stations, they had some Obama lackey on, that apparently is busy calling radio stations trying to convince Americans that they didn't really hear Obama say if-you-like-your-plan-you-keep-your-plan yada yada.
He went on to tell us idiots what Obama really meant, and only if you already hate Obama would you believe what your ears think you heard.

I've got to tell you, this just infuriates me to have these Obama extremeists try to weasel out of admitting that Obama lied through his teeth.
Anyone with any gray matter at all, can clearly see that Obama was trying to calm the fears of mom and pop America by assuring them that if they were happy with their plan, they needn't worry at all.He enthusiastically told them that NO MATTER WHAT THEY HAVE HEARD they would keep their plan if they liked it.
Just dishonesty of the highest degree.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

So let's see if I understand how this works...Barry tells the American people something that he KNOWS is never going to happen and you want to set the "framework" by discussing W. and Iraq? I take it that's an admission by you that there IS no defense for the lies that Obama told for the past five years? That your only refuge has become that others have lied as well so therefore Obama's lies, lies that will affect 1/6 of our total economy and the health care of millions of Americans, aren't a big deal?

I was reminding the 'nuts around here of their hypocrisy.

Do you want me to end the debate set up in the OP? Fine.

Impeachable offenses are crimes. It is not a criminal offense for a politician to make promises he doesn't keep.

If it were George Bush Sr.'s promise of no new taxes would have been an impeachable offense, and no sane person believes that.

Remind me again, was Bush reelected after he lied?

 

[Oldstyle]

And my second point would be that comparing campaign promises by politicians trying to get elected with someone who HAS been elected promising things will take place if you pass the legislative agenda he desires when he KNOWS that those promises are completely undeliverable are two very different things.

Anyone with even a dollop of common sense knows that stump speeches like "Read my lips...no new taxes!" should be taken with a grain of salt.

But when the President assures the American people repeatedly that they will be able to keep their insurance plan and their doctors if his signature legislation is passed KNOWING that will not be the case then THAT is more serious than an exuberant campaign speech promising the world!

My plan has four broad features: attention to urgent priorities, investment in the future, an attack on the deficit, and no new taxes.

That was PRESIDENT George Bush in 1989 in his Administration Goals speech to Congress.

Once again, Carbineer...you're comparing vague campaign promises with an actual legislative agenda once a politician was elected. What Barack Obama has to answer for isn't promising to be the most transparent administration ever...which in hindsight was simply campaign trail "rhetoric"...but his promise to the American people that the ACA wouldn't take away the healthcare plans they had and liked...and wouldn't take away their doctors that they had and liked...a promise that Obama HAD to know was a lie.

 

[Flopper]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.

As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.

BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.

 

[hjmick]

Well, if that's what he said, you missunderstood him...

 

[DigitalDrifter]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.

As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.

BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.

It has already been shown that Obama continued with the line AFTER the administration knew that some people would lose their plan.
Please stop covering for him.

 

[Sunshine]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

I know a lot of people who voted for him because they wanted health insurance. Now they are out $500/month and still don't have any coverage to speak of. Of course he lied. Impeach him? Oh HELL no. The dumbasses who voted him in need to live with him in office for another 3 years. If they can do it I can do it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.

As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.

BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.

Was it a lie?

Yes.

Feel free to keep defending him, just expect everyone to rub your face in it the next time you attack the other side.

 

[Sunshine]

Obama was addressing the concern that people would be forced to leave their insurance and take a Healthcare Exchange policy

Obama said ACA would not force you to drop your policy.

He had no control over what your health insurer would or would not do. He had no authority to tell insurers...YOU WILL OFFER THIS POLICY FOREVER

I have said that very same thing, actually. He was right that you could keep your policy. He did not address the issue that your policy may not keep you. People hear what they want to hear. I was discussing this with a friend from another forum when the bill first came out. Unlike most, I had actually read it. When I told him certain aspects of the ACA as I understood them to be, he said, 'we will be single payer in less than 5 years.' Why would an employer give you health insurance and even underwrite your claims when they can hand you $275 a month and tell you to buy your own. There is no logical reason they would do that. People who had coverage through their employers all breathed a collective sign of relief throughout the entire process of getting this through, thinking that it would in no way affect them. I own a company. I don't employ anyone, but if I did, that's how I would do it. Why people could not see and hear this train whistle a'blowin' is way beyond me.

 

[Sunshine]

And my second point would be that comparing campaign promises by politicians trying to get elected with someone who HAS been elected promising things will take place if you pass the legislative agenda he desires when he KNOWS that those promises are completely undeliverable are two very different things.

Anyone with even a dollop of common sense knows that stump speeches like "Read my lips...no new taxes!" should be taken with a grain of salt.

But when the President assures the American people repeatedly that they will be able to keep their insurance plan and their doctors if his signature legislation is passed KNOWING that will not be the case then THAT is more serious than an exuberant campaign speech promising the world!

You must also understand that G. W. H. Bush paid the price for his lie.

Will Obama?

He can apply for Obamacare!

 

[Redfish]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

 

[Sunshine]

So let's see if I understand how this works...Barry tells the American people something that he KNOWS is never going to happen and you want to set the "framework" by discussing W. and Iraq? I take it that's an admission by you that there IS no defense for the lies that Obama told for the past five years? That your only refuge has become that others have lied as well so therefore Obama's lies, lies that will affect 1/6 of our total economy and the health care of millions of Americans, aren't a big deal?

I was reminding the 'nuts around here of their hypocrisy.

Do you want me to end the debate set up in the OP? Fine.

Impeachable offenses are crimes. It is not a criminal offense for a politician to make promises he doesn't keep.

If it were George Bush Sr.'s promise of no new taxes would have been an impeachable offense, and no sane person believes that.

Not true, impeachable offenses are whatever Congress decides they are. If you don't believe me I can provide actual evidence of Congress using impeachment to remove people who they did not accuse of any crime. In fact, they once used it to remove a guy who simply said something they disagreed with, and the courts upheld it because that power is solely in the power of Congress.

But I do thank you for trying to rewrite the Constitution, again.

The president can be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors.' Clinton lied under oath to Congress. That is a crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanours

 

[Redfish]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.

As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.

BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.

Obama's lies about the ACA were not campaign promises, they were lies told in order to get the bill passed. Many congressiional dems were very concerned about the implications of the bill and probably would not have voted for it if Obama had not lied about that aspect of it.

 

[legaleagle_45]

I know a lot of people who voted for him because they wanted health insurance. Now they are out $500/month and still don't have any coverage to speak of. Of course he lied. Impeach him? Oh HELL no. The dumbasses who voted him in need to live with him in office for another 3 years. If they can do it I can do it.

Besides, that would mean Biden would be President...

 

[Redfish]

I know a lot of people who voted for him because they wanted health insurance. Now they are out $500/month and still don't have any coverage to speak of. Of course he lied. Impeach him? Oh HELL no. The dumbasses who voted him in need to live with him in office for another 3 years. If they can do it I can do it.

Besides, that would mean Biden would be President...

I would take Biden the idiot over Obama the marxist any day.

 

[percysunshine]

Obama was addressing the concern that people would be forced to leave their insurance and take a Healthcare Exchange policy

Obama said ACA would not force you to drop your policy.

He had no control over what your health insurer would or would not do. He had no authority to tell insurers...YOU WILL OFFER THIS POLICY FOREVER

Obama has significant control over what insurers will or will not do. He is dictating the terms of the policies they can offer on the exchanges and what the price range can be. The grandfathering clauses are a matter of public record.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-17/pdf/2010-14488.pdf

As to the obfuscation that he is telling insurers they have to provide policies forever, it is a straw man. No one ever claimed he was telling them that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Obama was addressing the concern that people would be forced to leave their insurance and take a Healthcare Exchange policy

Obama said ACA would not force you to drop your policy.

He had no control over what your health insurer would or would not do. He had no authority to tell insurers...YOU WILL OFFER THIS POLICY FOREVER

I have said that very same thing, actually. He was right that you could keep your policy. He did not address the issue that your policy may not keep you. People hear what they want to hear. I was discussing this with a friend from another forum when the bill first came out. Unlike most, I had actually read it. When I told him certain aspects of the ACA as I understood them to be, he said, 'we will be single payer in less than 5 years.' Why would an employer give you health insurance and even underwrite your claims when they can hand you $275 a month and tell you to buy your own. There is no logical reason they would do that. People who had coverage through their employers all breathed a collective sign of relief throughout the entire process of getting this through, thinking that it would in no way affect them. I own a company. I don't employ anyone, but if I did, that's how I would do it. Why people could not see and hear this train whistle a'blowin' is way beyond me.

Want to learn that he is actually smarter than you, and is so happy that you are stupid enough to believe his lies?

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-17/pdf/2010-14488.pdf

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I was reminding the 'nuts around here of their hypocrisy.

Do you want me to end the debate set up in the OP? Fine.

Impeachable offenses are crimes. It is not a criminal offense for a politician to make promises he doesn't keep.

If it were George Bush Sr.'s promise of no new taxes would have been an impeachable offense, and no sane person believes that.

Not true, impeachable offenses are whatever Congress decides they are. If you don't believe me I can provide actual evidence of Congress using impeachment to remove people who they did not accuse of any crime. In fact, they once used it to remove a guy who simply said something they disagreed with, and the courts upheld it because that power is solely in the power of Congress.

But I do thank you for trying to rewrite the Constitution, again.

The president can be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors.' Clinton lied under oath to Congress. That is a crime.

High crimes and misdemeanours - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you have a point in there?

Nixon v. United States, 506 U.S. 224 (1993),[1] was a United States Supreme Court decision that determined that the question of whether the Senate had properly tried an impeachment was a political question, and could not be resolved in the Courts.

Nixon v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words, if the House impeaches the president, and the Senate finds him guilty, it is settled.

John Pickering was impeached for not showing up for work, which, I am pretty sure, is not a crime.

John Pickering (judge) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Flopper]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.

As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.

BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.

It has already been shown that Obama continued with the line AFTER the administration knew that some people would lose their plan.
Please stop covering for him.

When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.

Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.