The word "period"

[mudwhistle]

TK aptly illustrates the answer to that in this post:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/8104809-post673.html

yeah, I know this has already been covered, but I am looking for one dem/lib who is honest enough to admit that obama lied. probably like looking for rubies in my garden.

I'll admit that Obama lied if you will admit that George H.W. Bush lied when he said "read my lips."

The answer, of course, is that neither of them lied. What they both said seemed like a good idea at the time - it just didn't work out. That's not a lie. It might be mega piece of misjudgment, but it is not a lie.

in order to prove that either of them lied, you would have to be able to show knowledge on their part that it would not work out the way they were talking and an intent to decieve.

It wasn't a lie when Bush said it.

Obama said it for the approx 30th time this Sept.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.

As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.

BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.

Obama's lies about the ACA were not campaign promises, they were lies told in order to get the bill passed. Many congressiional dems were very concerned about the implications of the bill and probably would not have voted for it if Obama had not lied about that aspect of it.

What crime are you going to charge the president with?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Still trying to deflect from the topic I see.

 

[DiamondDave]

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Let it be repeated that taking the intel and passing the basic information from it on (the same intel our allies used and repeated, and that congress viewed and repeated) is not a lie.. Intel may not always be right, and when it is not it does not make it a lie...

Now... Obama did in fact lie.. yet it is not an impeachable offense.. it just reaffirms to many of us the type of liar we have known him to be all along

 

[mudwhistle]

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

A lie is defined thusly:

If you know what you're saying is untrue that is a lie.


Explain how what Bush said could be verified before we entered Iraq.

However, what Obama said was known to be a lie by everyone in the White House.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Not true, impeachable offenses are whatever Congress decides they are. If you don't believe me I can provide actual evidence of Congress using impeachment to remove people who they did not accuse of any crime. In fact, they once used it to remove a guy who simply said something they disagreed with, and the courts upheld it because that power is solely in the power of Congress.

But I do thank you for trying to rewrite the Constitution, again.

The president can be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors.' Clinton lied under oath to Congress. That is a crime.

High crimes and misdemeanours - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you have a point in there?

Nixon v. United States, 506 U.S. 224 (1993),[1] was a United States Supreme Court decision that determined that the question of whether the Senate had properly tried an impeachment was a political question, and could not be resolved in the Courts.

Nixon v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words, if the House impeaches the president, and the Senate finds him guilty, it is settled.

John Pickering was impeached for not showing up for work, which, I am pretty sure, is not a crime.

John Pickering (judge) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was a debate in the writing of the Constitution whether the President could be impeached for just incompetence, or for crimes.

Crimes won.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

A lie is defined thusly:

If you know what you're saying is untrue that is a lie.


Explain how what Bush said could be verified before we entered Iraq.

However, what Obama said was known to be a lie by everyone in the White House.

You proved the point. Bush and his administration said with certainty that Iraq had WMD's that were an imminent threat.

Since, as you admit, they cannot have known that to be true, to state it as fact constitutes a lie.

 

[Jarhead]

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

wow. You are most certainly desperate.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

Still trying to deflect from the topic I see.

The topic is what is an impeachable offense. The rightwing hacks on this board are not getting a free pass on this one as long as I'm here.

 

[Jarhead]

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

A lie is defined thusly:

If you know what you're saying is untrue that is a lie.


Explain how what Bush said could be verified before we entered Iraq.

However, what Obama said was known to be a lie by everyone in the White House.

You proved the point. Bush and his administration said with certainty that Iraq had WMD's that were an imminent threat.

Since, as you admit, they cannot have known that to be true, to state it as fact constitutes a lie.

Wrong.

If you state something as fact based on information offered to you giving you reason to state it as fact, you did not lie.

You were misinformed.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Did the UN lie about it? did Bill Clinton? did Hillary? did ted kennedy?

when people repeat something that they believe to be true (even if its not) they are not lying.

obama knew that people would not be able to keep their policies and doctors, and still said it. He lied, face it, deal with it.

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

wow. You are most certainly desperate.

You're off topic. Did Obama commit an impeachable offense? Yes or no.

 

[Jarhead]

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

wow. You are most certainly desperate.

You're off topic. Did Obama commit an impeachable offense? Yes or no.

I don't see this as an impeachable offense.

There is no law protecting the citizens from politicians that lie.

Therefore, he did not commit a crime.

I do, however, see it as unethical and will likely cause serious damage to his legacy.

 

[NLT]

TK aptly illustrates the answer to that in this post:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/8104809-post673.html

yeah, I know this has already been covered, but I am looking for one dem/lib who is honest enough to admit that obama lied. probably like looking for rubies in my garden.

I'll admit that Obama lied if you will admit that George H.W. Bush lied when he said "read my lips."

The answer, of course, is that neither of them lied. What they both said seemed like a good idea at the time - it just didn't work out. That's not a lie. It might be mega piece of misjudgment, but it is not a lie.

in order to prove that either of them lied, you would have to be able to show knowledge on their part that it would not work out the way they were talking and an intent to decieve.

Wipe that obama stain off your fat chin George , its disgusting

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.

As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.

BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.

It has already been shown that Obama continued with the line AFTER the administration knew that some people would lose their plan.
Please stop covering for him.

When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.

Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.

Except there is something that forces insurance companies to drop the plans, and it was put in intentionally because, without it, no one would have bought the Obamacare plans.

 

[BDBoop]

It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.

As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.

BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.

It has already been shown that Obama continued with the line AFTER the administration knew that some people would lose their plan.
Please stop covering for him.

When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.

Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.

Your posts are an absolute breath of fresh air.

I'm sure you appreciate me sharing how I feel.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The president can be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors.' Clinton lied under oath to Congress. That is a crime.

High crimes and misdemeanours - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you have a point in there?

Nixon v. United States, 506 U.S. 224 (1993),[1] was a United States Supreme Court decision that determined that the question of whether the Senate had properly tried an impeachment was a political question, and could not be resolved in the Courts.

Nixon v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words, if the House impeaches the president, and the Senate finds him guilty, it is settled.

John Pickering was impeached for not showing up for work, which, I am pretty sure, is not a crime.

John Pickering (judge) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was a debate in the writing of the Constitution whether the President could be impeached for just incompetence, or for crimes.

Crimes won.

There was a debate about whether there is a different standard for the president than for anyone else? Why wasn't that written into the Constitution if it actually won? Why are you the only person in the universe that knows about it?

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

 

[BDBoop]

Let me repeat the question. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

I hope someone will answer.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

wow. You are most certainly desperate.

You're off topic. Did Obama commit an impeachable offense? Yes or no.

I don't see this as an impeachable offense.

There is no law protecting the citizens from politicians that lie.

Therefore, he did not commit a crime.

I do, however, see it as unethical and will likely cause serious damage to his legacy.

There is nothing anywhere, despite the massive ignorance of idiots like you, that restricts impeachment to criminal offenses.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?

How about not. What does Bush have to do with this discussion?