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What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"
no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"
You can keep it, PERIOD!
Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.
Grounds for impeachment????????
Yes it was a lie. A bald faced lie. A big lie.
No, you can't be impeached for lying during a campaign. Otherwise, no one would ever make it past Inauguration Day without immediately being impeached.
Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?
How about not. What does Bush have to do with this discussion?
He was president. The topic is, what are impeachable offenses for presidents. Plus I get to make monkeys out of you two-faced phonies.
A lie is defined thusly:
If you know what you're saying is untrue that is a lie.
Explain how what Bush said could be verified before we entered Iraq.
However, what Obama said was known to be a lie by everyone in the White House.
You proved the point. Bush and his administration said with certainty that Iraq had WMD's that were an imminent threat.
Since, as you admit, they cannot have known that to be true, to state it as fact constitutes a lie.
Sorry, not knowing doesn't make it a lie.
BTW, you totally ignored what was found in Iraq. Captured documents showed, and this was testified before Congress, that Iraq was a more dangerous place than they had thought before we invaded. We found evidence of binary delivery systems and we found tons of yellow cake uranium waiting to be refined. If Obama had been president that would have been enough for you to defend him to the ends of the Earth.
A lie is defined thusly:
If you know what you're saying is untrue that is a lie.
Explain how what Bush said could be verified before we entered Iraq.
However, what Obama said was known to be a lie by everyone in the White House.
You proved the point. Bush and his administration said with certainty that Iraq had WMD's that were an imminent threat.
Since, as you admit, they cannot have known that to be true, to state it as fact constitutes a lie.
Wrong.
If you state something as fact based on information offered to you giving you reason to state it as fact, you did not lie.
You were misinformed.
You proved the point. Bush and his administration said with certainty that Iraq had WMD's that were an imminent threat.
Since, as you admit, they cannot have known that to be true, to state it as fact constitutes a lie.
Sorry, not knowing doesn't make it a lie.
BTW, you totally ignored what was found in Iraq. Captured documents showed, and this was testified before Congress, that Iraq was a more dangerous place than they had thought before we invaded. We found evidence of binary delivery systems and we found tons of yellow cake uranium waiting to be refined. If Obama had been president that would have been enough for you to defend him to the ends of the Earth.
As if that Yellow Cake was being hidden from the world.
When the bill was in Senate, I think most people assumed the grandfather clause would allow existing plans to be grandfathered in with only new plans reflecting the increased benefits. This would allowed a gradual phase-in of the changes. However, the HHS wrote the regulation based on an interpretation of the law and comments from group insurers. The result was most plans could not be grandfathered in. Health insurer in the individual market elected to cancel and reissue the plans rather than update them. I have no idea what their reasons for doing so were. In some states, the insurance commission requested they do so. However some issuers stated there were operations problems in just updating the plan.When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.It has already been shown that Obama continued with the line AFTER the administration knew that some people would lose their plan.
Please stop covering for him.
Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.
Except there is something that forces insurance companies to drop the plans, and it was put in intentionally because, without it, no one would have bought the Obamacare plans.
You proved the point. Bush and his administration said with certainty that Iraq had WMD's that were an imminent threat.
Since, as you admit, they cannot have known that to be true, to state it as fact constitutes a lie.
Wrong.
If you state something as fact based on information offered to you giving you reason to state it as fact, you did not lie.
You were misinformed.
Bush did not have that.
What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"
no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"
You can keep it, PERIOD!
Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.
Grounds for impeachment????????
Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?
Sorry, not knowing doesn't make it a lie.
BTW, you totally ignored what was found in Iraq. Captured documents showed, and this was testified before Congress, that Iraq was a more dangerous place than they had thought before we invaded. We found evidence of binary delivery systems and we found tons of yellow cake uranium waiting to be refined. If Obama had been president that would have been enough for you to defend him to the ends of the Earth.
As if that Yellow Cake was being hidden from the world.
Uh....yes....it was.
It was found hidden in a vault in Iraq. The UN didn't find it during their inspections. We did.
What's your point....other than you can't accept anything as important unless the media says it's important?
Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?
How about not. What does Bush have to do with this discussion?
He was president. The topic is, what are impeachable offenses for presidents. Plus I get to make monkeys out of you two-faced phonies.
When the bill was in Senate, I think most people assumed the grandfather clause would allow existing plans to be grandfathered in with only new plans reflecting the increased benefits. This would allowed a gradual phase-in of the changes. However, the HHS wrote the regulation based on an interpretation of the law and comments from group insurers. The result was most plans could not be grandfathered in. Health insurer in the individual market elected to cancel and reissue the plans rather than update them. I have no idea what their reasons for doing so were. In some states, the insurance commission requested they do so. However some issuers stated there were operations problems in just updating the plan.When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.
Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.
Except there is something that forces insurance companies to drop the plans, and it was put in intentionally because, without it, no one would have bought the Obamacare plans.
I think it's questionable as what Obama actually knew when he made the two statements. Later when it became clear that a number of insurance companies would be cancelling and reissuing plans instead of updating them, he could have informed the public of this. However, what would be the point in doing so? Whichever way the insurance companies handled the situation, the outcome would have been same. Every one that had coverage would be able to keep their coverage in a plan with additional benefits..
We found 10 instances after the law was signed when Obama made the pledge again.
In remarks in Portland, Maine, on April 1, 2010, Obama said that "if Americans like their doctor, they will keep their doctor. And if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it. No one will be able to take that away from you. It hasnt happened yet. It wont happen in the future."
After the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services issued regulations for the law on June 14, 2010, HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius blogged: "The bottom line is that under the Affordable Care Act, if you like your doctor and plan, you can keep them."
Obama then repeated the remarks during several campaign events in 2012, as well as at the first presidential debate in Denver on Oct. 3, 2012: "If you've got health insurance, it doesn't mean a government takeover. You keep your own insurance. You keep your own doctor. But it does say insurance companies can't jerk you around."
Finally, as recently as a few weeks ago, Obama was playing down the impact.
"Now, lets start with the fact that even before the Affordable Care Act fully takes effect, about 85 percent of Americans already have health insurance - either through their job, or through Medicare, or through the individual market," he said in a speech in Largo, Md., on Sept. 26. "So if youre one of these folks, its reasonable that you might worry whether health care reform is going to create changes that are a problem for you -- especially when youre bombarded with all sorts of fear-mongering. So the first thing you need to know is this: If you already have health care, you dont have to do anything."
Overall, we didnt find one instance in which Obama offered a caveat that it only applies to plans that hadnt changed after the laws passage.
Politifact; Pants on Fire: Barack Obama says that what he'd said was you could keep your plan 'if it hasnt changed since the law passed'
What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"
TK aptly illustrates the answer to that in this post:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/8104809-post673.html
yeah, I know this has already been covered, but I am looking for one dem/lib who is honest enough to admit that obama lied. probably like looking for rubies in my garden.
When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.It was an extraordinarily bold and foolish pledge. However, was it lie? A broken promise is only a lie when the person knows he can not fulfill the promise. When this pledge was made in 2009, it was before the law was passed and the bill was changing daily. When his second statement was made after the law was passed the regulations that governed grandfathering older plans had not been written. Most insurance companies and probably Obama assumed the older plans would be grandfather in, but the regulators did not believe they could meet the requirements of the law and other legislation if they allowed the old plans to stand as is. This forced many companies to cancel and reissue plans due to either state laws or internal problems.
As I said, I think Obama was foolish to make such bold statements because he could not control everything that went into the law or the regulations that came out of it.
BTW If we impeached every president that broke campaign promises, we would have impeached them all.
It has already been shown that Obama continued with the line AFTER the administration knew that some people would lose their plan.
Please stop covering for him.
Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.
Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?
Let's put this in perspective, when Clinton lied under oath, was that an impeachable offense?
Yes it was as the House demonstrated. However he was not convicted or removed from office by the Senate.
Now, was President Obama under oath when he made that claim?
That doesn't matter either. Impeachment is an up/ down vote in the House. They could impeach him tomorrow if they so chose.
Let's set the framework for this debate. Were Bush's lies that got us into Iraq impeachable offenses?
How about not. What does Bush have to do with this discussion?
He was president. The topic is, what are impeachable offenses for presidents. Plus I get to make monkeys out of you two-faced phonies.
What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"
no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"
You can keep it, PERIOD!
Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.
Grounds for impeachment????????
Yes it was a lie. A bald faced lie. A big lie.
No, you can't be impeached for lying during a campaign. Otherwise, no one would ever make it past Inauguration Day without immediately being impeached.
When the bill was in Senate, I think most people assumed the grandfather clause would allow existing plans to be grandfathered in with only new plans reflecting the increased benefits. This would allowed a gradual phase-in of the changes. However, the HHS wrote the regulation based on an interpretation of the law and comments from group insurers. The result was most plans could not be grandfathered in. Health insurer in the individual market elected to cancel and reissue the plans rather than update them. I have no idea what their reasons for doing so were. In some states, the insurance commission requested they do so. However some issuers stated there were operations problems in just updating the plan.When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.
Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.
Except there is something that forces insurance companies to drop the plans, and it was put in intentionally because, without it, no one would have bought the Obamacare plans.
I think it's questionable as what Obama actually knew when he made the two statements. Later when it became clear that a number of insurance companies would be cancelling and reissuing plans instead of updating them, he could have informed the public of this. However, what would be the point in doing so? Whichever way the insurance companies handled the situation, the outcome would have been same. Every one that had coverage would be able to keep their coverage in a plan with additional benefits..
When the bill was in Senate, I think most people assumed the grandfather clause would allow existing plans to be grandfathered in with only new plans reflecting the increased benefits. This would allowed a gradual phase-in of the changes. However, the HHS wrote the regulation based on an interpretation of the law and comments from group insurers. The result was most plans could not be grandfathered in. Health insurer in the individual market elected to cancel and reissue the plans rather than update them. I have no idea what their reasons for doing so were. In some states, the insurance commission requested they do so. However some issuers stated there were operations problems in just updating the plan.When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.
Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.
Except there is something that forces insurance companies to drop the plans, and it was put in intentionally because, without it, no one would have bought the Obamacare plans.
I think it's questionable as what Obama actually knew when he made the two statements. Later when it became clear that a number of insurance companies would be cancelling and reissuing plans instead of updating them, he could have informed the public of this. However, what would be the point in doing so? Whichever way the insurance companies handled the situation, the outcome would have been same. Every one that had coverage would be able to keep their coverage in a plan with additional benefits..
