The word "period"

[mudwhistle]

Good luck with that. You know it only take 50+% of the House to impeach. How come they haven't done it yet? What are they waiting for?

Because, mostly they're not morons and pulling a stupid stunt like that would sink them even further with the American Voters.

Well, it wouldn't be stupid. It would be productive.

Problem being if you impeach him you still have "Plugs" to deal with and nothing changes.

Nevermind that Dingy Harry is still running the Senate. It would be a waste of time. Democrats don't believe in following the law when politics is concerned.

It would be stupid. It would be productive only for the Democrats.

Democrats do control the Senate but that doesn't matter because if I'm not mistaken it take 2/3rds votes to convict in the senate.

I figure that Obama feels he's safe. That's why he refuses to fess up.

We'll see.........


I figure this criminal is good to go long as you sheeple still speak up for him.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Let's put this in perspective, when Clinton lied under oath, was that an impeachable offense?

Yes it was as the House demonstrated. However he was not convicted or removed from office by the Senate.

Now, was President Obama under oath when he made that claim?

That doesn't matter either. Impeachment is an up/ down vote in the House. They could impeach him tomorrow if they so chose.

It does not fucking matter if he was under oath or not, does it? He lied, and you don't care because he is black. That makes you a racist scumbag.

So by your logic, Obama could be impeached for being black.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How about not. What does Bush have to do with this discussion?

He was president. The topic is, what are impeachable offenses for presidents. Plus I get to make monkeys out of you two-faced phonies.

Did you get back to me about the fake debate you created about the only way to impeach the president is if he commits a crime? Or did you give up on this monkey?

Have you ever read the Constitution?

 

[NYcarbineer]

A lie is defined thusly:

If you know what you're saying is untrue that is a lie.


Explain how what Bush said could be verified before we entered Iraq.

However, what Obama said was known to be a lie by everyone in the White House.

You proved the point. Bush and his administration said with certainty that Iraq had WMD's that were an imminent threat.

Since, as you admit, they cannot have known that to be true, to state it as fact constitutes a lie.

Sorry, not knowing doesn't make it a lie.

BTW, you totally ignored what was found in Iraq. Captured documents showed, and this was testified before Congress, that Iraq was a more dangerous place than they had thought before we invaded. We found evidence of binary delivery systems and we found tons of yellow cake uranium waiting to be refined. If Obama had been president that would have been enough for you to defend him to the ends of the Earth.

No. There were no WMD's. Bush himself admitted that; his testimony in that regard, given that it was a statement against his own interests,

is the most credible testimony available.

Have a banana.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Still trying to deflect from the topic I see.

The topic is what is an impeachable offense. The rightwing hacks on this board are not getting a free pass on this one as long as I'm here.

Seems we've answered your question several times over. You just won't accept the answer.

You have misrepresented the facts. Bush didn't say it exactly the way you're saying he did.

Does that mean you're a liar too?

lol. It never ends.

 

[NYcarbineer]

When Obama said you can keep your plan, he was speaking for the government, not the insurance companies. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act that forces people to give up their health plans. The president can't speak for what the insurance companies may or may not do.

Whether the insurance companies choose to cancel and reissue the plans with the required changes or revise the current plans, the end result is same.

Except there is something that forces insurance companies to drop the plans, and it was put in intentionally because, without it, no one would have bought the Obamacare plans.

When the bill was in Senate, I think most people assumed the grandfather clause would allow existing plans to be grandfathered in with only new plans reflecting the increased benefits. This would allowed a gradual phase-in of the changes. However, the HHS wrote the regulation based on an interpretation of the law and comments from group insurers. The result was most plans could not be grandfathered in. Health insurer in the individual market elected to cancel and reissue the plans rather than update them. I have no idea what their reasons for doing so were. In some states, the insurance commission requested they do so. However some issuers stated there were operations problems in just updating the plan.

I think it's questionable as what Obama actually knew when he made the two statements. Later when it became clear that a number of insurance companies would be cancelling and reissuing plans instead of updating them, he could have informed the public of this. However, what would be the point in doing so? Whichever way the insurance companies handled the situation, the outcome would have been same. Every one that had coverage would be able to keep their coverage in a plan with additional benefits..

Some insurance companies have been required by some states to cancel plans. Some insurance companies are cancelling plans in order to scam people into more expensive plans without shopping for a better deal on the exchange.

 

[mudwhistle]

The topic is what is an impeachable offense. The rightwing hacks on this board are not getting a free pass on this one as long as I'm here.

Seems we've answered your question several times over. You just won't accept the answer.

You have misrepresented the facts. Bush didn't say it exactly the way you're saying he did.

Does that mean you're a liar too?

lol. It never ends.

Keep avoiding the truth and it never will.......

 

[NYcarbineer]

What exactly does it mean when obama said " if you like your health plan, you can keep it, period" "if you like your doctor, you can keep him, period"

no "ifs", no conditions, no "if it isn't changed"

You can keep it, PERIOD!

Was that a lie? Yes, and he knew it was when he said it. He lied to the american people in order to pass a bill that a majority of americans did not want.

Grounds for impeachment????????

Well, as usual a little research is a useful exercise. It's odd that you ask this as an open question, when 6 months ago you provided your own definitive answer:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7221830-post502.html

Note: what you are proclaiming is NOT an impeachable offense is the charge of Obama lying about Benghazi.

Case closed.

Benghazi is a case of Obstruction of Justice.

That is impeachable.

End of story.

Argue with the author of this thread. He thinks you're full of shit.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Seems we've answered your question several times over. You just won't accept the answer.

You have misrepresented the facts. Bush didn't say it exactly the way you're saying he did.

Does that mean you're a liar too?

lol. It never ends.

Keep avoiding the truth and it never will.......

You're off topic. What is the constitutionally impeachable high crime or misdemeanor the President committed regarding the ACA ?

 

[mudwhistle]

Except there is something that forces insurance companies to drop the plans, and it was put in intentionally because, without it, no one would have bought the Obamacare plans.

When the bill was in Senate, I think most people assumed the grandfather clause would allow existing plans to be grandfathered in with only new plans reflecting the increased benefits. This would allowed a gradual phase-in of the changes. However, the HHS wrote the regulation based on an interpretation of the law and comments from group insurers. The result was most plans could not be grandfathered in. Health insurer in the individual market elected to cancel and reissue the plans rather than update them. I have no idea what their reasons for doing so were. In some states, the insurance commission requested they do so. However some issuers stated there were operations problems in just updating the plan.

I think it's questionable as what Obama actually knew when he made the two statements. Later when it became clear that a number of insurance companies would be cancelling and reissuing plans instead of updating them, he could have informed the public of this. However, what would be the point in doing so? Whichever way the insurance companies handled the situation, the outcome would have been same. Every one that had coverage would be able to keep their coverage in a plan with additional benefits..

Some insurance companies have been required by some states to cancel plans. Some insurance companies are cancelling plans in order to scam people into more expensive plans without shopping for a better deal on the exchange.

Yeaaaaaah.....that's the ticket!!!

 

[Redfish]

PERIOD----no exceptions, no conditions, you can keep it PERIOD. A huge lie.

Face it libs, you elected a liar and a fraud.

Admit it so that the country can move ahead and fix some of the mess he caused.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hahahaha. Classic meltdown.

He isn't black, he's an F1 Hybrid ya moroonie........

He lied, end of your defense.

As if the GOP haven't?

Stop the press......

I am not trying to defend the GOP, am I?

You, however, are trying to defend Obama.

Wait, I forgot, you think everyone is either Republican or Democrat.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes it was as the House demonstrated. However he was not convicted or removed from office by the Senate.

Now, was President Obama under oath when he made that claim?

That doesn't matter either. Impeachment is an up/ down vote in the House. They could impeach him tomorrow if they so chose.

It does not fucking matter if he was under oath or not, does it? He lied, and you don't care because he is black. That makes you a racist scumbag.

So by your logic, Obama could be impeached for being black.

My logic has nothing to do with it. Impeachable offenses are whatever Congress says they are, ask Gerald Ford.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He was president. The topic is, what are impeachable offenses for presidents. Plus I get to make monkeys out of you two-faced phonies.

Did you get back to me about the fake debate you created about the only way to impeach the president is if he commits a crime? Or did you give up on this monkey?

Have you ever read the Constitution?

Your claim was that there was a debate about whether it is possible to impeach a president for being incompetent, or if there had to be a crime. Since the only place impeaching the president is mentioned is Article 2 Section 4 of the Constitution, which is the same clause that was used to impeach a judge for not showing up for work, you are, demonstrably, 100% wrong.

Wait, I have never read the Constitution, I cannot possibly outsmart you on impeachment, or anything else. You must be having a nightmare. Have you tried lucid dreaming to fix it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Except there is something that forces insurance companies to drop the plans, and it was put in intentionally because, without it, no one would have bought the Obamacare plans.

When the bill was in Senate, I think most people assumed the grandfather clause would allow existing plans to be grandfathered in with only new plans reflecting the increased benefits. This would allowed a gradual phase-in of the changes. However, the HHS wrote the regulation based on an interpretation of the law and comments from group insurers. The result was most plans could not be grandfathered in. Health insurer in the individual market elected to cancel and reissue the plans rather than update them. I have no idea what their reasons for doing so were. In some states, the insurance commission requested they do so. However some issuers stated there were operations problems in just updating the plan.

I think it's questionable as what Obama actually knew when he made the two statements. Later when it became clear that a number of insurance companies would be cancelling and reissuing plans instead of updating them, he could have informed the public of this. However, what would be the point in doing so? Whichever way the insurance companies handled the situation, the outcome would have been same. Every one that had coverage would be able to keep their coverage in a plan with additional benefits..

Some insurance companies have been required by some states to cancel plans. Some insurance companies are cancelling plans in order to scam people into more expensive plans without shopping for a better deal on the exchange.

California just required every insurer that cancelled plans as a result of the federal law to extend them for 3 months, but it is California that forced them to cancel the plan.

Then again, you think Republicans are responsible for Obamacare.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Did you get back to me about the fake debate you created about the only way to impeach the president is if he commits a crime? Or did you give up on this monkey?

Have you ever read the Constitution?

Your claim was that there was a debate about whether it is possible to impeach a president for being incompetent, or if there had to be a crime. Since the only place impeaching the president is mentioned is Article 2 Section 4 of the Constitution, which is the same clause that was used to impeach a judge for not showing up for work, you are, demonstrably, 100% wrong.

Wait, I have never read the Constitution, I cannot possibly outsmart you on impeachment, or anything else. You must be having a nightmare. Have you tried lucid dreaming to fix it?

So your answer to the OP is that yes, the President committed an impeachable offense,

because anything the President does or doesn't do is an impeachable offense.

That's fascinating. Then logically you must also believe that the Constitution really means nothing other than what the Supreme Court says it means.

You thus waste alot time here telling us what you suppose the Constitution to mean. lol

 

[NYcarbineer]

PERIOD----no exceptions, no conditions, you can keep it PERIOD. A huge lie.

Face it libs, you elected a liar and a fraud.

Admit it so that the country can move ahead and fix some of the mess he caused.

Too bad you people defended so many conservative lies, not mention told so many yourselves,

but for that, you might actually have some standing to go all sanctimonious on the Prez over this.

 

[Oldstyle]

Hmmm...pointing out that the President of the United States consistently lied to the American people over a five year period is being "sanctimonious"? Really?

I'm curious, Carbineer...do you ever hold Barry accountable for his actions? This isn't some trivial thing that Barack Obama did...he deliberately misled the American people over what would happen to their healthcare once the ACA kicked in because he knew that if they KNEW what was going to happen they would have risen up against it. That's a pretty sleazy thing to do with something as important as people's health care.

 

[Ame®icano]

Hmmm...pointing out that the President of the United States consistently lied to the American people over a five year period is being "sanctimonious"? Really?

I'm curious, Carbineer...do you ever hold Barry accountable for his actions? This isn't some trivial thing that Barack Obama did...he deliberately misled the American people over what would happen to their healthcare once the ACA kicked in because he knew that if they KNEW what was going to happen they would have risen up against it. That's a pretty sleazy thing to do with something as important as people's health care.

Sure, he deliberately misled American people by telling them that individual mandate is not a tax, and after it was passed and signed, then challenged on SCOTUS, his lawyers admitted it was a tax. When law passed on SCOTUS, he kept saying again its not a tax. So tell me, is it a lie or not?

 

[Flopper]

That's all good and well, Flopper, as it applies to what he said prior to his signing the bill in to law. But by the time the bill reached his desk the clause that has caused so much dismay and controversy with regard to keeping your plan was there. If he didn't know about it, what the hell is he doing signing the damn thing? Furthermore, he continued to proclaim that people who were happy with their plan, with their doctor, they would be able to keep them. No caveats, no exceptions. It was a line he continued to use through out 2012 and as recently as Sept. 26 of this year. You will not be able to convince me that, more than three years after signing that POS he didn't know...

Because if he didn't know three years in, he's not as smart as so many claim he is... Or he doesn't have a fucking clue as to what going on around him... Or he was flat out lying to the American people...

No matter how you slice it, it stinks.

There is nothing in the law that forces insurance companies to cancel policies. The law grandfathers all plans that existed prior to 10/23/2010. So when Obama signed the bill into law, everyone could keep their current plan. So he did not lie. However, there is more to story so read on.

The law says plans that are significantly changed after 10/23/2010 can not be grandfathered. At the time the bill became law, significant had not been defined. Later in the year and in 2011 regulations were drafted and requests for comments were sent to insurance companies. After meeting with insurance companies and the IRS, it was determined that most changes to plans such as premiums or even changes required by state law would be considered a significant change thus making the plan inelligble for grandfathering.


Since grandfathered plans could not be sold after 2014 and the plans would have be cancelled or updated sometime in the future, many insurance companies made a business decision to cancel many of the old plans and move people to new a new plan. I doubt Obama knew that insurance companies would be cancelling plans. If so he would have never made the statement after the law was passed because he surely would know that millions of cancellations would be a public relations nightmare.

BTW, anyone who wants individual insurance for 2014 without any of the ACA changes, can purchase a grandfathered plan now. They're listed on insurer web sites with a note that they are not ACA compliant and can not be sold in 2014 but will meet the ACA individual mandate requirement for 2014.