The world backs America and Trump.

[toomuchtime_]

Wow, one missile strike and you claim to see the history of the world for the next fifty years. You must win a lottery jackpot every week.

No I use history repeating itself, have you forgotten Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya....how is this going to be ANY different?

Have I Triggered you or something? Good.

I would hope that the sane people prevail and this stays at only a one off happening from Trump lobbing Tomahawks on Syria and he isn't FORCED to escalate things....he needs to reread his OWN fucking words going right back to 2012 and what he said himself about military intervention in Syria and that it would "lead to bad things happening"

Three very different situations. Iraq has been turned into a functioning democracy. Afghanistan is no longer a safe haven from which terrorists can launch attacks against America. Libya was just a pointless mistake. However none of these has anything to do with Syria.

Under Obama's small stick foreign policy bad things were already getting worse across the ME, and the vacuum created by America's absence had encouraged Russia and Iran to move in to fill it. President Trump had just been wrong about Syria and Assad's chemical attack just days after the US indicated it could live with Assad in power showed that America's neglect of the ME had led Assad and Russia to think there were no red lines they couldn't cross with impunity. Now they have learned there are.

Iraq was never a "functioning democracy" - it just had the outward appearances of one. The cronyism, tribal/ethnic/religion fractures, the corruption - all that was still in place. The reason Iraq fractured was not because we left, but because it lacked the institutions and culture to sustain a real democracy, and we - in our incredible arrogance thought that toppling a Middle East dictator was all it would take. Oy ve.

The reality is that people think it's a simple problem and simple solutions are what is needed but they don't have a clue about the Middle East and what's worse, many don't want to learn. You can blame Obama for a "small stick" policy, but Obama had a better understanding of the realities in that region.

For example - Assad is unsupportable. But WHO IS in the plethora of rebel groups? In terms of human rights violations to Syrian civilians - many of those rebal groups aren't a whole lot better than Assad. WHO can hold and stabilize Syria if Assad is taken down? WHAT happens if Assad stays?

Who are the players here? Just a trailer....Iran, Russia, Turkey, ISIS, Hezbollah, various groups of Kurds, Syrian rebel groups. Turkey hates the Kurds and is worried about Kurdish uprising and violence in it's own country. Russia is persuing a scorched earth policy to prop up Assad who is becoming increasingy more brutal.

But Obama should have done more...like what? Boots on the ground? Without a clear idea of the end game that is unsupportable.

Iraq today is functioning democracy which recently had a peaceful transfer of power after an election. That is the ultimate test of whether it has a functioning democracy.

In 2011, Iraq was just a fledgling democracy and as you noted not ready to take care of itself. That's exactly what the Pentagon and the diplomats told Obama. They said if he pulled out our troops and ended the close guidance the Bush administration was giving to the Iraq government, Iraq would go up in flames. He ignored their advice and told the American people Iraq was ready to take care of itself and that's why he was able to pull out our troops. He knew it was a lie when he said it, but he believed he had to make good on his most important 2008 election promise to win a second term in 2012. He made a choice that his election was more important than the hundreds of thousands of lives that have been lost and the millions of refugees that have been created to get him a second term.

Keeping Assad in power has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and made millions homeless refugees, so if you're saying, let's keep Assad because we're afraid of what the next guy might do, you're also saying let's let hundreds of thousands more be killed and millions more become refugees because we are afraid of what the next guy might do. I say let's get rid of this son of a bitch and then get rid of the next son of a bitch if he does the same thing. The slaughter has got to stop.

Aren't you ignoring the fact that in 2008 the UN told the Bush Administration that the Occupation Mandate was not going to be renewed in 2009. That forced President Bush to negotiate the SOFA agreement that laid out the time table for our withdrawal from Iraq by 2012. Why wasn't President Bush able to negotiate a residual force? He certainly tried didn't he?

By that agreement President Obama could have removed all our troops at any time. Why didn't he? Why did he embark on a year long negotiation to keep a residual force in Iraq in 2011?

Fact is both sides wanted us out so they could go after each other. It's what they do.

The fact is the Pentagon and diplomats told Obama Iraq would go up in flames if he pulled out and he lied to the American people when he said he was pulling out because Iraq could now take care of itself. The real reason he pulled out was to enhance his bid for a second term by keeping this very important promise from his 2008 campaign. The Pentagon told him exactly what would happen if he pulled out and he made a conscious choice to allow it to happen so he could have a second term.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

News from The Associated Press

Good to see.

Strange they HATED him UNTIL he BOMBED someone, so WTF does that say?

That the value of human life exceeds political ideology.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

News from The Associated Press

Good to see.

Strange they HATED him UNTIL he BOMBED someone, so WTF does that say?

That the value of human life exceeds political ideology.

See my Darfur comments in this thread, I don't buy this "value of human life" argument, if that were the case then Sudan would have been bombed to intervene to prevent 250,000 plus people being hacked to death by machetes including children and babies.

Also many who are TODAY SUDDENLY liking Trump don't care about "the value of human life" when it comes to supporting murdering babies as they slumber in the womb. Hypocrites.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

News from The Associated Press

Good to see.

Strange they HATED him UNTIL he BOMBED someone, so WTF does that say?

That the value of human life exceeds political ideology.

See my Darfur comments, I don't buy this "value of human life" argument, if that were the case then Sudan would have been bombed to intervene to prevent 250,000 plus people being hacked to death by machetes including children and babies.

I hear ya! Not sure why TRUMP didn't bomb them too.

*facepalm*

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

News from The Associated Press

Good to see.

Strange they HATED him UNTIL he BOMBED someone, so WTF does that say?

That the value of human life exceeds political ideology.

See my Darfur comments, I don't buy this "value of human life" argument, if that were the case then Sudan would have been bombed to intervene to prevent 250,000 plus people being hacked to death by machetes including children and babies.

I hear ya! Not sure why TRUMP didn't bomb them too.

*facepalm*

Some things we have to agree to disagree, I cannot see how I'm supposed NOT to agree with destroying Libya, but I'm supposed to think it's GREAT that Trump has bombed Syria JUST as ISIS were being put on the backfoot, so now ISIS is going to get a bit of a boost.

So some things we have to agree to disagree.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

GOD DAMN //// THE BUSHES ARE BACK. That's what I'm talkin' about.

No what it is is that the Neo-Conservative vipers never went away, they were there the entire eight years of Obama also, there will be Perpetual Warmongering and Perpetual War until the Neo-Conservatives vipers are decapitated.

There of course is NOTHING Conservative about the Neo-Conservatives and their realm is purely American Foreign Policy, specifically a small patch of the Middle East which they're obsessed about and they intend if need be to destroy EVERYTHING in order to get their ultimate wet dream.

This doesn't stop with Syria, next it'll be Lebanon and Iran and Jordan and the southern half of Egypt.

Wow, one missile strike and you claim to see the history of the world for the next fifty years. You must win a lottery jackpot every week.

Have you ever asked yourself why they never give a shit about taking military action unless it's in specific areas of the Middle East?

This Tomahawk missile Warmongering Masturbating exercise on the premise of "those poor people, including children and babies being gassed by chemical weapons" is absolute horsecrap, they don't give a SHIT about those people.

Why didn't they bomb Sudan because of what was happening in Darfur where more than 250,000 people have been hacked to death with machetes INCLUDING children and babies?

Fucking hypocrites.

No one cares who died. Babies could be sliced and diced by machetes and no one cares.
May I repeat.
No one cares.

The civilized world will not tolerate the use of chemical weapons. It has been that way since WWI.

 

[toomuchtime_]

GOD DAMN //// THE BUSHES ARE BACK. That's what I'm talkin' about.

No what it is is that the Neo-Conservative vipers never went away, they were there the entire eight years of Obama also, there will be Perpetual Warmongering and Perpetual War until the Neo-Conservatives vipers are decapitated.

There of course is NOTHING Conservative about the Neo-Conservatives and their realm is purely American Foreign Policy, specifically a small patch of the Middle East which they're obsessed about and they intend if need be to destroy EVERYTHING in order to get their ultimate wet dream.

This doesn't stop with Syria, next it'll be Lebanon and Iran and Jordan and the southern half of Egypt.

Wow, one missile strike and you claim to see the history of the world for the next fifty years. You must win a lottery jackpot every week.

Have you ever asked yourself why they never give a shit about taking military action unless it's in specific areas of the Middle East?

This Tomahawk missile Warmongering Masturbating exercise on the premise of "those poor people, including children and babies being gassed by chemical weapons" is absolute horsecrap, they don't give a SHIT about those people.

Why didn't they bomb Sudan because of what was happening in Darfur where more than 250,000 people have been hacked to death with machetes INCLUDING children and babies?

Fucking hypocrites.

No one cares who died. Babies could be sliced and diced by machetes and no one cares.
May I repeat.
No one cares.

The civilized world will not tolerate the use of chemical weapons. It has been that way since WWI.

The thing is, it's much easier to bomb chemical weapons than it is to bomb machetes.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

News from The Associated Press

Good to see.

Strange they HATED him UNTIL he BOMBED someone, so WTF does that say?

That the value of human life exceeds political ideology.

See my Darfur comments, I don't buy this "value of human life" argument, if that were the case then Sudan would have been bombed to intervene to prevent 250,000 plus people being hacked to death by machetes including children and babies.

I hear ya! Not sure why TRUMP didn't bomb them too.

*facepalm*

Some things we have to agree to disagree, I cannot see how I'm supposed NOT to agree with destroying Libya, but I'm supposed to think it's GREAT that Trump has bombed Syria JUST as ISIS were being put on the backfoot, so now ISIS is going to get a bit of a boost.

So some things we have to agree to disagree.

Two different countries with two different reasons. Libya was actually cooperating with the US and not systematically killing off its population.
Syria is the terrorist capital of the world and killing off its citizens faster than they're being born.

Two completely different scenarios

 

[sealybobo]

News from The Associated Press

Good to see.

I thought. You guys didn't care what the rest of the world thinks? Still he should have got congressional approval. The world doesn't understand the constitution neither do you

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

GOD DAMN //// THE BUSHES ARE BACK. That's what I'm talkin' about.

No what it is is that the Neo-Conservative vipers never went away, they were there the entire eight years of Obama also, there will be Perpetual Warmongering and Perpetual War until the Neo-Conservatives vipers are decapitated.

There of course is NOTHING Conservative about the Neo-Conservatives and their realm is purely American Foreign Policy, specifically a small patch of the Middle East which they're obsessed about and they intend if need be to destroy EVERYTHING in order to get their ultimate wet dream.

This doesn't stop with Syria, next it'll be Lebanon and Iran and Jordan and the southern half of Egypt.

Wow, one missile strike and you claim to see the history of the world for the next fifty years. You must win a lottery jackpot every week.

Have you ever asked yourself why they never give a shit about taking military action unless it's in specific areas of the Middle East?

This Tomahawk missile Warmongering Masturbating exercise on the premise of "those poor people, including children and babies being gassed by chemical weapons" is absolute horsecrap, they don't give a SHIT about those people.

Why didn't they bomb Sudan because of what was happening in Darfur where more than 250,000 people have been hacked to death with machetes INCLUDING children and babies?

Fucking hypocrites.

No one cares who died. Babies could be sliced and diced by machetes and no one cares.
May I repeat.
No one cares.

The civilized world will not tolerate the use of chemical weapons. It has been that way since WWI.

The civilised world tolerates dropping White Phosphorus on people though yes? So dropping White Phosphorus on people is okay with the civilised world and you don't see the double standard?