There is an active shooter at a Florida Highschool

[ChrisL]

What are the connections? Legal psychiatric drugs which began to be widely distributed and used during the 80s and 90s. There has definitely been an uptick in these types of incidents, and there is a reason WHY and it is not guns or AR-15s.

 

[ChrisL]

Sure, but there have been links made (as I linked to a page or so ago) between an increased level of violence while people are taking these types of medications.

Uh ... You're missing the point.
It's not necessary nor rocket science to draw a link between crazy people ... On medication because they are crazy ... Doing crazy things.

They were crazy before they started taking the medication ... That's why they are taking it nit-wit ...

.

I already noted that too. I asked is it the drugs that make their condition worse or are they predestined to become mass murderers because of their mental illness? Perhaps YOU are the nit wit?

 

[BlackSand]

I already noted that too. I asked is it the drugs that make their condition worse or are they predestined to become mass murderers because of their mental illness? Perhaps YOU are the nit wit?

They are taking the medication because they are mentally ill is a fact ... That's why they take it.
To pretend the medication they are taking because they are mentally ill ... Is what made them mentally ill before they started taking it ... Would be stupid.

You could make the case the medication doesn't work on curing the mental illness they already had.

.

 

[ChrisL]

Mass shootings were (and still are - in reality) a rare occurrence. However, they were much more rare in the past.

I just find it interesting that it seems an uptick has occurred in things like school shootings relatively recently, around the same time as all of these new "psychiatric drugs" have come into play.

It's interesting to try to draw lines and make connections and try to figure out the REAL reason why for me. Much more interesting than just repeating the democrat catch phrase "blame guns . . . duhhhh."

 

[ChrisL]

Generation meds: the US children who grow up on prescription drugs

In America, medication is becoming almost as much a staple of childhood as Disney and McDonald’s. Kids pack their pills for school or college along with their lunch money. Some are taking drugs for depression and anxiety, others for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The right drugs at the right time can save young people from profound distress and enable them to concentrate in class. But some adolescents, critics say, are given medication to mask the ordinary emotional turmoil of growing up; there is a risk that they will never learn to live without it.

According to America’s Centers for Disease Control, 11% of four- to 17-year-olds in the US have been diagnosed with ADHD, a label for those who are disruptive in class and unable to concentrate; just over 6% are taking medication. But the official figure hides huge variation across regions and class. Numbers are very high in the white, middle-class east coast population, says Ilina Singh, professor of neuroscience and society at Oxford University, while there is under-diagnosis in poor white populations and among ethnic minorities.

“In the middle-class, educated group in New York, you probably are seeing kids who are just under more academic pressure,” she says. “Parents will begin to look at psychiatric diagnosis and treatment with drugs as one option for making children perform better. You have parents saying, ‘My child must be on Ritalin because all the other children in the class are.’”

In the UK, meanwhile, about 3% of children are diagnosed with ADHD; just 1% are on medication. American children can go through six or seven different drugs quite early in their lives; in the UK, children are usually sent for cognitive behaviour therapy first, in line with guidance from the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence.

Medication for ADHD has long provoked controversy. But in recent years, the big upturn in the US has been in prescribing for depression and anxiety. It is now generally accepted, says David Healy, professor of psychiatry at Bangor University, that 20%-25% of students at most universities in the US are on medication, often on multiple prescriptions. There, he says, taking your meds is often seen as proof that a young person is dealing with their problems. “But you are not going to learn coping skills if you are taking pills,” he adds.

 

[ChrisL]

Relying on meds for most of your life as a child to "feel good" and then suddenly being thrust into adulthood must not be an easy transition either. It could be a huge lack of REAL coping mechanisms.

 

[beagle9]

I already noted that too. I asked is it the drugs that make their condition worse or are they predestined to become mass murderers because of their mental illness? Perhaps YOU are the nit wit?

They are taking the medication because they are mentally ill is a fact ... That's why they take it.
To pretend the medication they are taking because they are mentally ill ... Is what made them mentally ill before they started taking it ... Would be stupid.

You could make the case the medication doesn't work on curing the mental illness they already had.

.

. Is there proof with out a doubt that people who take these drugs we're mentally ill ??? You don't know that, as the opioid epidemic is proof that millions have been exposed to or have had illegal prescriptions written to them in hopes they would become hooked even though they weren't actually mental candidates for the drugs..

 

[BlackSand]

Relying on meds for most of your life as a child to "feel good" and then suddenly being thrust into adulthood must not be an easy transition either. It could be a huge lack of REAL coping mechanisms.

That's closer to the truth I would imagine than attempting to blame the drugs for other reckless and irresponsible activities.

Too many people will jack their children up on drugs and think that is an adequate response to their behavioral problems.
They give those children a "special" identity ... Which in turn allows people to think that more inappropriate behavior is "normal" for that child.

They are not vigilant enough in monitoring the child's actual wellbeing and development.
They are more than happy to think the drugs will take care of everything ... Which simply isn't the case.

.

 

[BlackSand]

Is there proof with out a doubt that people who take these drugs we're mentally ill ??? You don't know that, as the opioid epidemic is proof that millions have been exposed to or have had illegal prescriptions written to them in hopes they would become hooked even though they weren't actually mental candidates for the drugs..

I was talking about prescription drugs prescribed to patients to treat diagnosed mental problems.
And yes .. in some cases I think drugs are overprescribed ... More as a matter of incompetence than marketing though.

.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Next page.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

 

[kaz]

No our country is not homogenous. I live in Australia but am from NZ. Neitehr country is homogenous at all. My son's last school in NZ there were 42 different nationalities there. NZ hasn't been homongenous since the 1970s.

stat after stat after stat shows that US born citizens are more likely to commit crimes than either legal or illegal immigrants. Immigrants being the bane of US crime is a myth.

It would be a better job if you didn't have access to assault rifles. And no, I don't give a shit if I have misused the term. You know exactly what I mean by that.

Thanks for clarifying on the NZ. I thought you told me that, but people kept saying Australia. Most of the aborigines are in New South Wales. Australia also has an over policy to only allow Europeans emigrate

 

[ChrisL]

It could also be that these people SHOULD have been on meds but were not taking their meds (as is SO often the case) because they were feeling better. Happens all the time. People are on their meds. They are feeling better and normal, so they decide they can stop taking their meds now. Who wants to have to take pills every day for the rest of their lives? nobody. And then they slowly decline back into their insanity.

 

[ChrisL]

I would LOVE to be able to interview one of these people. I have a whole lot of questions I would like to ask them.

 

[kaz]

The US has a higher incarceration rate than you do

The US has more crime than you do.

Oh my fing God, that's brilliant. You're a genius. Our countries are not the same. Damn, I wish I'd realized that. Oh wait, I did. You didn't know that ...

It wasn't an insight. I was asked a question and answered it. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The US has shit drug and prostitution laws for a start. Get those sorted and your incarceration rate would halve. And the tax bill associated with that. THen again, you have private prisons, so there is a driver right there for people to be incarcerated. Especially if you are a shareholder in that prison company and you give judges back handers.

Well, I agree on the drugs and prostitution.

The thing is that you keep arguing we should just pass laws. You really don't address that we are very different country. We have a million illegal aliens entering our country. And we have no southern border. The drug dealers who already exist can import guns. Think about it.

We also have 300 million guns. All our gun laws are doing is making it easier for mass shooters. And each one tries to outdo the last one and no one has guns to stop them. Gun owners are overwhelmingly good people who learn to use them safely. And the ones who aren't can get them anyway. I know, I came from there even though I've lived my adult life in urban areas.

Australia is like NZ both in demographics and in that you have no borders or millions of illegal aliens, drugs and guns flowing freely in. To just say gun laws is so shallow. And it's clearly not working, and you don't address that either.

The Washington Navy yard was the epitome example of the stupidity of our laws where people who owned and knew how to use them were prohibited from having them and died because of it

 

[kaz]

Of course there is. There are more and more gun laws, and more and more shooters with no one shooting back.

So seriously, if your kids were in that school, you'd be glued to the live TV reporting saying, I hope no one else has a gun, I hope no one else has a gun, I hope no one else has a gun, I hope no one else has a gun ...

I'd be saying, I hope someone wastes the little prick

No, I'm thinking "I don't have to worry about that shit where I live."

Then why are you posting across the pond that we should just disarm our honest citizens and die?

Because I don't have to worry about this shit and it would be great if you didn't have to either.

And yet you have zero idea how to accomplish that, so thanks

 

[ChrisL]

Let's think about when this problem with school shootings and mass shootings started to increase. I would say in the 90s is when we really started to hear more about school shootings and mass shootings. I would like to try to figure out what it is that would cause an increase in such a crime and also the mental illness/emotional disability/distress/whatever that is most likely associated with it. I've just made a connection in the use of antipsychotics (including antidepressants/anxiolytics/etc) and the uptick in mass shootings. That is the time period when we started using more psychiatric medications and when the uptick occurred, and most of these shooters are or were at one time on one or more of these kinds of medications.

 

[ChrisL]

The US has a higher incarceration rate than you do

The US has more crime than you do.

Oh my fing God, that's brilliant. You're a genius. Our countries are not the same. Damn, I wish I'd realized that. Oh wait, I did. You didn't know that ...

It wasn't an insight. I was asked a question and answered it. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The US has shit drug and prostitution laws for a start. Get those sorted and your incarceration rate would halve. And the tax bill associated with that. THen again, you have private prisons, so there is a driver right there for people to be incarcerated. Especially if you are a shareholder in that prison company and you give judges back handers.

Well, I agree on the drugs and prostitution.

The thing is that you keep arguing we should just pass laws. You really don't address that we are very different country. We have a million illegal aliens entering our country. And we have no southern border. The drug dealers who already exist can import guns. Think about it.

We also have 300 million guns. All our gun laws are doing is making it easier for mass shooters. And each one tries to outdo the last one and no one has guns to stop them. Gun owners are overwhelmingly good people who learn to use them safely. And the ones who aren't can get them anyway. I know, I came from there even though I've lived my adult life in urban areas.

Australia is like NZ both in demographics and in that you have no borders or millions of illegal aliens, drugs and guns flowing freely in. To just say gun laws is so shallow. And it's clearly not working, and you don't address that either.

The Washington Navy yard was the epitome example of the stupidity of our laws where people who owned and knew how to use them were prohibited from having them and died because of it

There have been more and more and more gun control laws and yet more and more and more violence as well. That is because guns don't cause people to hate and want to kill other people.

 

[kaz]

Doctor Grump likes to pretend everyone lives a small population homogeneous country with no international borders like he does. I mean, what works in Mayberry RFD will work everywhere, right?

He's not interested at all in learning anything about the United States and how it's different than New Zealand. Just lecturing us how they do it and assuming it would work here

Posted by a friend of mine in Sydney, who is a New Yorker. He wondered in his post that maybe the reason wasn't guns, maybe it was the water....

That tells us what?




View attachment 176952

Australian gun crime is going up....our gun crime is going down......they have almost had numerous mass public shootings....the only thing that kept them from being mass public shootings...the shooter chose not to shoot more people, or he was a bad shot.........

It is a lie that Australian gun control stopped their mass shootings, or their gun crime......don't believe it...

Keep in mind...whenever an anti gunner claims Australian gun laws stopped their mass public shootings...ask them how their gun laws stopped these shootings from becoming mass public shootings...since the shooter had guns in a public place and was shooting people........

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia

• 16 January 1998 to 15 June 2009 – Melbourne gangland killings – A series of 35 murders of crime figures and their associates that began with the slaying of Alphonse Gangitano in his home, most likely by Jason Moran, the latest victim being Des Moran who was murdered in Ascot Vale on 15 June 2009.
• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria at La Trobe university in Melbourne, Victoria, armed with a 38-calibre revolver handgun and opened fire, killing cafeteria manager Leon Capraro and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

21st century[edit]
2000s[edit]

• 13 March 2000 – Millewa State Forest Murders – Barbara and Stephen Brooks and Stacie Willoughby were found dead, all three having been shot execution style and left in the forest.[62][63]
• 16 July 2001 – Peter James Knight, an anti-abortion activist, walked into an abortion clinic in East Melbourne armed with a rifle. Knight shot dead security guard Stephen Gordon Rogers and was later overpowered by staff in the abortion clinic. After his arrest, Knight was charged and convicted of murder. He was sentenced to life in prison.
• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.
• 14 October 2002 – Dr. Margret Tobin, the South Australian head of Mental Health Services, was shot dead by Jean Eric Gassy as she walked out of a lift in her office building.
• 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.
• 25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman are shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney which was the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families. Twenty-four-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom. Up to 100 shots were fired into the house by four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.
• 18 February 2006 – Cardross Hit and Run – Thomas Graham Towle crashed his car at high speed into a group of 13 teenagers, killing six and injuring seven near the town ofCardross, Victoria.[73]
• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[75]

An expidited list.....

Here is a list of shootings in Australia...notice, they are all after they banned and confiscated guns...tell me....how did Australian gun laws stop these from becoming mass shootings?

I will quote a few....read the rest....

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia

• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

If he had decided to keep shooting...would Australian gun laws have kept this from being a mass shooting?
Tell me...this doesn't count as a mass shooting...only because more of the victims didn't die...7 people shot......did Australian gun laws stop it from being a mass shooting?

• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.

Another one.....this shooter couldn't clear his rifle...so he only killed 2...the new standard for a mass shooting incident is 3 dead victims...so how did Australian gun laws keep this from being a mass shooting...rather than just dumb luck....?

• 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.

And had this guy decided to keep shooting.....would Australian gun laws have stopped him? And kept this from being a mass shooting?

• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]

Can you see that CNN's article is just wrong....that it implies that Australian gun control has ended their mass shootings...and that that is a lie?

And more....

• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.

• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]

this guy actually went into a mall......with a gun......after they banned and confiscated them...so tell me how this doesn't show that the CNN article is a lie....

• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]

How did Australian gun control laws keep this shooting from being a muslim terrorist mass shooting? An immigrant to Australia got a gun in a country where they banned and confiscated them and now claim their gun control laws have stopped mass shootings...

• 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]

And how did Australian gun control keep this shooting from being a mass shooting?

• 10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.

And had this kid walked into his school.....as a muslim immigrant and simply shot 3 kids....it would have been an act of muslim terrorism and a mass shooting ....again, luck saved Australia, not their gun control laws...

• And how did Australian gun laws keep these muslim teenager from going to a school with this gun and shooting a bunch of students?
  
  Sydney police HQ shooting linked to terrorism: police commissioner
  
  The actions of the 15-year-old gunman who shot dead a New South Wales police civilian employee were an act of terrorism, police say.
  
  The radicalised youth of Middle Eastern background has been named as Farhad Jabar Khalil Mohammad.
  
  He killed the police employee, Curtis Cheng, as he was leaving police headquarters at Parramatta in Sydney's west around 4:30pm yesterday.
  
  The offender then fired several more shots at officers as they emerged from the building to respond to the incident.

You really need to give this wall of text marathon a freaking rest!

No one gives a shit about the UK or Australia.

And that's simply not true.

It's not even an opinion worth defending and your extremism is failing you - even you care enough about the relevance of the "Australia Comparison" that you want to shut out discussion of it.

And I for one find comparisons and articles discussing how the rest of the world is dealing with similar issues is very relevant to the conversation.

`​

The point is that Australia is so fundamentally different than the US that it's difficult to learn anything useful from them.

They are advocating what we do now, gun laws. And they clearly aren't working

 

[Dirk the Daring]

You do know we have like 300 ,000,000
Plus people right? What does Australia have 24 million?

We have more damn illegal Mexicans in America then the entire population of Australia

Which has what to do with the point? Illegals are more law abiding than your own citizens.

And you are wrong. There are 10 million illegals in the US. Oz has 24 million.

By the literal DEFINITION of the word 'illegal,' they are not.