Think You Know Who Won WWII?

[PoliticalChic]

FDR made the Soviets expend the blood while we came out of the war as a superpower with all of our industry intact

No doubt we won the war.....we have FDR to thank

Au contraire....

...Stalin made FDR dance to his tune.



I believe I'll construct an OP demonstrating that.....

Stalin made FDR dance to his tune?

Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe

Who's zooming who?

"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Here comes more of your education.




World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Stalin didn't 'lose' them.....

....he killed them.




Aren't you glad you came by today?
Look at how much your learned.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Actually, as far as 1945-1999 go, the Krauts and Nips won, but that was sort of the point. They got what they needed and stopped invading people. And other nations benefited from the free trade.

Do you do any research?


I do.


Lots.


Here's a suggestion that will lead you to some amazing realizations.....Operation Snow.

 

[rightwinger]

Au contraire....

...Stalin made FDR dance to his tune.



I believe I'll construct an OP demonstrating that.....

Stalin made FDR dance to his tune?

Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe

Who's zooming who?

"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Here comes more of your education.




World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Stalin didn't 'lose' them.....

....he killed them.




Aren't you glad you came by today?
Look at how much your learned.

You fail to define fraction

Regardless, the Soviets suffered horrendous losses and the population endured suffering that could not be imagined by Americans safely at home

FDR played Stalin as his people paid the price for the war and the US reaped the benefits

FDR was the master

 

[Unkotare]

Stalin made FDR dance to his tune?

Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe

Who's zooming who?

"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Here comes more of your education.




World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Stalin didn't 'lose' them.....

....he killed them.




Aren't you glad you came by today?
Look at how much your learned.

You fail to define fraction

Regardless, the Soviets suffered horrendous losses and the population endured suffering that could not be imagined by Americans safely at home

FDR played Stalin as his people paid the price for the war and the US reaped the benefits

FDR was the master

FDR was a scumbag, a liar, a fool, and a power-hungry threat to our Republic.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Stalin made FDR dance to his tune?

Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe

Who's zooming who?

"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Here comes more of your education.




World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Stalin didn't 'lose' them.....

....he killed them.




Aren't you glad you came by today?
Look at how much your learned.

You fail to define fraction

Regardless, the Soviets suffered horrendous losses and the population endured suffering that could not be imagined by Americans safely at home

FDR played Stalin as his people paid the price for the war and the US reaped the benefits

FDR was the master

I will prove otherwise.

Stay tuned.

 

[regent]

It may have been one of the greatest con-jobs in history. First Roosevelt promised Stalin a second front in 1942, and instead we invaded Africa. Then Churchill promised Stalin a second front in 1943 and we invaded the soft underbelly, which incidently didn't turn out too soft. During that time the Russians were taking huge casualties, but not to worry we would send them lend-lease materials of war. Finally we invaded in 1944 and a year later it was over. If we rated wars by the number of lives saved we really came out on top and that should make us feel good. But there are so many facets to that war that a simplistic look at one phase or item is unrealistic.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It may have been one of the greatest con-jobs in history. First Roosevelt promised Stalin a second front in 1942, and instead we invaded Africa. Then Churchill promised Stalin a second front in 1943 and we invaded the soft underbelly, which incidently didn't turn out too soft. During that time the Russians were taking huge casualties, but not to worry we would send them lend-lease materials of war. Finally we invaded in 1944 and a year later it was over. If we rated wars by the number of lives saved we really came out on top and that should make us feel good. But there are so many facets to that war that a simplistic look at one phase or item is unrealistic.

I'll correct all of the errors in your post at a later date.....

 

[rightwinger]

"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Here comes more of your education.




World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




"Stalin lost 20 million people while FDR was still fretting over invading Europe."

Stalin didn't 'lose' them.....

....he killed them.




Aren't you glad you came by today?
Look at how much your learned.

You fail to define fraction

Regardless, the Soviets suffered horrendous losses and the population endured suffering that could not be imagined by Americans safely at home

FDR played Stalin as his people paid the price for the war and the US reaped the benefits

FDR was the master

FDR was a scumbag, a liar, a fool, and a power-hungry threat to our Republic.

Greatest President since Lincoln

Turned us into a Superpower and took the country to a new level

 

[rightwinger]

It may have been one of the greatest con-jobs in history. First Roosevelt promised Stalin a second front in 1942, and instead we invaded Africa. Then Churchill promised Stalin a second front in 1943 and we invaded the soft underbelly, which incidently didn't turn out too soft. During that time the Russians were taking huge casualties, but not to worry we would send them lend-lease materials of war. Finally we invaded in 1944 and a year later it was over. If we rated wars by the number of lives saved we really came out on top and that should make us feel good. But there are so many facets to that war that a simplistic look at one phase or item is unrealistic.

We laid back while the Soviets bled rivers. We finally invaded Normandy when the Soviets had already turned the tide on the Nazis. Then we claimed half the spoils

FDR and Churchill played Stalin for a sucker

 

[Unkotare]

You fail to define fraction

Regardless, the Soviets suffered horrendous losses and the population endured suffering that could not be imagined by Americans safely at home

FDR played Stalin as his people paid the price for the war and the US reaped the benefits

FDR was the master

FDR was a scumbag, a liar, a fool, and a power-hungry threat to our Republic.

Greatest President since Lincoln

Turned us into a Superpower and took the country to a new level

Worst president we've ever had. Hell, just a shitty human being as well.

 

[rightwinger]

FDR was a scumbag, a liar, a fool, and a power-hungry threat to our Republic.

Greatest President since Lincoln

Turned us into a Superpower and took the country to a new level

Worst president we've ever had. Hell, just a shitty human being as well.

FDR: Great man....beloved President

 

[Unkotare]

Greatest President since Lincoln

Turned us into a Superpower and took the country to a new level

Worst president we've ever had. Hell, just a shitty human being as well.

FDR: Great man....beloved President

FDR: A liar, a racist, an adulterer, a dupe...a power-hungry threat to our people and our Constitution

 

[mamooth]

As usual, you ran from a simple direct question, throwing up a wall of insults and irrelevant bullshit to cover your retreat.

Do you think the western powers should have sided with the Nazis against the Soviets?

It's a simple question. Yes or No?

Post #31 must have destroyed you, as you were afraid to re-post or respond to same.

If someone opposed allying with the Nazis, they would simply say so, especially after being directly asked about it twice. Instead of giving us a simple "no", you ran from the question twice.

Conclusion: You think we should have allied with the Nazis, but you lack the guts and honesty to say so.

The only thing worse than Nazi-sympathizing trash is cowardly lying Nazi-sympathizing trash. If you're going to be a Nazi sympathizer, at least be upfront about it.

 

[bendog]

Actually, as far as 1945-1999 go, the Krauts and Nips won, but that was sort of the point. They got what they needed and stopped invading people. And other nations benefited from the free trade.

Do you do any research?


I do.


Lots.


Here's a suggestion that will lead you to some amazing realizations.....Operation Snow.

But you should not listen to the voices.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As usual, you ran from a simple direct question, throwing up a wall of insults and irrelevant bullshit to cover your retreat.

Do you think the western powers should have sided with the Nazis against the Soviets?

It's a simple question. Yes or No?

Post #31 must have destroyed you, as you were afraid to re-post or respond to same.

If someone opposed allying with the Nazis, they would simply say so, especially after being directly asked about it twice. Instead of giving us a simple "no", you ran from the question twice.

Conclusion: You think we should have allied with the Nazis, but you lack the guts and honesty to say so.

The only thing worse than Nazi-sympathizing trash is cowardly lying Nazi-sympathizing trash. If you're going to be a Nazi sympathizer, at least be upfront about it.

From post #31:



"Do PC or any of the righties here think we should have sided with the Nazis?"

Why is that even a consideration.

The Nazis and the Communists were siblings.



You may certainly claim that you are too stupid to glean the answer, as the proof of your stupidity is evident in your posts......

...but, plead though you may, you will never be able to dictate how I answer you questions.




Let me put it as nicely as possible:
You have a Titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs

 

[PoliticalChic]

Actually, as far as 1945-1999 go, the Krauts and Nips won, but that was sort of the point. They got what they needed and stopped invading people. And other nations benefited from the free trade.

Do you do any research?


I do.


Lots.


Here's a suggestion that will lead you to some amazing realizations.....Operation Snow.

But you should not listen to the voices.

I have to admit that I was trying a bit of an experiment..... offering that clue to see if there was even the tiniest desire for knowledge present.

I should admit, also, that your post verifies my hypothesis.

 

[Steven_R]

As it was, we allowed the Soviets to do the majority of the fighting and dying in Europe while we sat back untouched at home

Great political and military strategy by FDR

I'm not sure that was even a real decision so much as just how the situation played out. Us equipment was subpar for the first years of the war (and even until the end. The M4 Sherman was a terrible tank, but we could just keep making them at an incredible rate). US troops had to learn tactics the hard way in 1942 in North Africa (e.g. Kasserine Pass). It was '43 before Italy could be invaded and '44 before France was even feasible. About all the US could offer was Lend-Lease and to take on the role of the daylight bombing campaigns because we were the only ones able to replace the planes and aircrews lost.

 

[rightwinger]

As it was, we allowed the Soviets to do the majority of the fighting and dying in Europe while we sat back untouched at home

Great political and military strategy by FDR

I'm not sure that was even a real decision so much as just how the situation played out. Us equipment was subpar for the first years of the war (and even until the end. The M4 Sherman was a terrible tank, but we could just keep making them at an incredible rate). US troops had to learn tactics the hard way in 1942 in North Africa (e.g. Kasserine Pass). It was '43 before Italy could be invaded and '44 before France was even feasible. About all the US could offer was Lend-Lease and to take on the role of the daylight bombing campaigns because we were the only ones able to replace the planes and aircrews lost.

Well put

And the question remains, who won the war?

Could the Soviets losing 20 million people and suffering an invasion be considered winning? At what price?

We lost 400,000 men and had our home front untouched. We emerged a political and military superpower at nowhere near the price

 

[Steven_R]

Losing the 20 million was no problem to Stalin. He could twist the screws a bit more on dissidents and gave the low level Russians at least something they could rally around (that whole save Motherland Russia thing). Plus the sheer amount of territorial gains and a buffer zone in East Europe the Soviets ended up with made it worthwhile.

Obviously France and Britain lost far more than any gains. Both countries were effectively bombed flat, economies in ruins, and their colonial empires began being dismantled in the process of rebuilding.

I'm not even sure how much I would count the US in the winner's column to be honest. With the Pax Britania over, someone had to step into the void to ensure stability and the only western nation left was the US. The US economy hummed along for the next 25 years, but that was more because nobody else had any manufacturing capabilities left at all. Then with the US being transformed into a world peacekeeper at odds with Soviet expansion we did get into that military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about, constant low level war (either as an active player like in Korea or Vietnam or by using another conflict as a proxy war like with Afghanistan). It forced the US to get into bed with some very nasty characters like Diem and Saddam and Pinochet and hurt US images overseas. Plus all the foreign entanglements that came along with NATO, SEATO, and the UN. How much money and lives did the next 50 years worth of WW2 victory really cost Americans?

 

[regent]

Losing the 20 million was no problem to Stalin. He could twist the screws a bit more on dissidents and gave the low level Russians at least something they could rally around (that whole save Motherland Russia thing). Plus the sheer amount of territorial gains and a buffer zone in East Europe the Soviets ended up with made it worthwhile.

Obviously France and Britain lost far more than any gains. Both countries were effectively bombed flat, economies in ruins, and their colonial empires began being dismantled in the process of rebuilding.

I'm not even sure how much I would count the US in the winner's column to be honest. With the Pax Britania over, someone had to step into the void to ensure stability and the only western nation left was the US. The US economy hummed along for the next 25 years, but that was more because nobody else had any manufacturing capabilities left at all. Then with the US being transformed into a world peacekeeper at odds with Soviet expansion we did get into that military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about, constant low level war (either as an active player like in Korea or Vietnam or by using another conflict as a proxy war like with Afghanistan). It forced the US to get into bed with some very nasty characters like Diem and Saddam and Pinochet and hurt US images overseas. Plus all the foreign entanglements that came along with NATO, SEATO, and the UN. How much money and lives did the next 50 years worth of WW2 victory really cost Americans?

Do we put too much faith in wars anymore? Seems wars never turn out the way one planned, even by winning. In fact, today's wars might be laying the ground work for tomorrow's problems.