Think You Know Who Won WWII?

[Camp]

Only idiots would question who won WWII. Germany was looted, large numbers of it's women were raped by plundering Russian's as the German soldiers were marched off by the Russian's to die in slave labor camps. The Russian's would return to lives of hopeless poverty of drinking vodka to escape the destitution of life in general as their wives and mothers stood in lines to hopefully get a weekly ration of chicken or horse meat, chunk of margerine, bottle of sunflower oil and bag of potatoes. Meanwhile, back in America, returning soldiers were going to universities and colleges or trade schools, getting good jobs, buying houses and cars, installing white picket fences and building bar-b-cue's in their backyards for weekend steak and hamburger with all the fixin's family and friend parties. Only idiots would ask such a stupid question. Who won WWII?

 

[Toro]

Canada.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Canada.

In the eighth round of the shoot-out?????

 

[Toro]

Canada.

In the eighth round of the shoot-out?????

I hope you recognize my sig!

 

[namvet]

Canada.

In the eighth round of the shoot-out?????

I hope you recognize my sig!

hockey pucks won the war???

 

[Art__Allm]

6. Viktor Suvorov " is a Soviet Army Cold War-era Soviet military intelligence officer who defected to the United Kingdom, eventually becoming a famous writer and historian." Viktor Suvorov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In his 2008 "The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II," Suvorov explains that Stalin materially assisted Nazi Germany in its aggression so that the Soviet Union could intervene at the proper time and seize all of continental Europe for itself. Hopefully, Germany and the West would exhaust themselves fighting each other.

Well, many prominent Russian historians now agree with the arguments of Suvorov (Rezun).

The declassified Russian document support the argument that Stalin was planning an offensive war on Europe in May 1941, and he believed that Hitler would weaken the capitalist system, and after that Soviet tanks could invade Europe and beat Hitler and the rest of Europe.

Stalin's Missed Chance is a study by Russian military historian Mikhail Ivanovich Meltyukhov, author of several books and articles on Soviet military history.

Stalin's Missed Chance covers a theory of planned Soviet invasion raised by Viktor Suvorov, author of highly controversial books such as Icebreaker. Unlike Suvorov's works, Meltyukhov's book is based on archive materials, some of which were until recently classified. Contrary to many Western scholars (David Glantz, John D. Erickson, Richard Overy and others), Mikhail Meltyukhov concurs with Suvorov's claim that Stalin and the Soviet military leadership had planned an offensive against Germany in 1941.

...
The basic idea of Soviet military planning consisted in the fact that the Red Army was to concentrate near the border under the disguise of maneuvers and to go over into a sudden, decisive attack. "The absence of any references to the possible defensive operations of the Red Army shows that the discussion was not about the preparation for a pre-emptive strike but for the assault on Germany and its allies. This idea is clearly expressed in the document of May 15, 1941, by which the Red Army was to be guided in the beginning of war." Meltyukhov suggests that the assault on Germany was initially planned to take place on June 12, 1941, but was postponed because the Soviet leadership feared an Anglo-German reconciliation against the Soviet Union after the flight of Rudolf Hess on May 12, 1941.[16]

The basis for this assumption is revealed by Molotov's recollection 40 years later in a conversation with Russian journalist Ivan Stadnyuk: "I don't remember all the motives for cancelling this decision, but it seems to me that Hitler's deputy Rudolf Hess' flight to England played the main role there. The NKVD reconnaissance reported to us, that Hess on behalf of Hitler had proposed the United Kingdom to conclude peace and to participate in the military march against the USSR... If we at this time would have unleashed ourselves a war against Germany, would have moved forces to Europe, then England could have entered the alliance with Germany without any delay... And not only England. We could have been face to face with the entire capitalist world".[17]

Stalin's Missed Chance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The flight of Rudolf Hess to the UK scared Stalin, he was afraid that the entire Western world was now against the Communists.

That explained the strange behaviour of Stalin in the first two weeks after the German invasion. He planned an offensive and he did not believe that Hitler would dare to attack the superior SU without getting the support of "capitalists" (UK and USA)

There is evidence that Brits managed to fool Hitler into believing that they would not mind if he attacks the SU. That may be the reason why they killed Rudolf Hess, the man who desperately tried to prevent a large scale carnage of European people.

Nazi Rudolf Hess was 'murdered by British agents in prison to stop him revealing war secrets but Scotland Yard was told NOT to investigate'
.http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=8604099

The ruling elite of the Western countries decided that Communism is less dangerous to their interests, though Stalin was eager to convert the entire Europe into a GULAG-System.

If Americans had not invented the nuclear bomb, Stalin would have easily conquered the entire Europe after wWII and fulfilled his plans.

The Soviets had a huge superiority of military power even before WWII (twice as many planes as Hitler, and four times more tanks before WWII, and to the end of WWII the Soviets managed to produce an astronomical amount of superior tanks, rockets and planes that were able to reach the Atlantic shore in a couple of weeks.

The western powers were scared to death by Stalin after WWII, that is the reason why they abandoned their Morgenthau Plan and re-armed what was left of Germany immediately after WWII.

Hitler was never a threat neither to the UK nor to the USA, he admired the British Empire and the United States. He was an Anglophile who tried to avoid a war with Anglo-Saxons in any case. The flight of Rudolf Hess to the UK was a desperate attempt to prevent a genocidal war between Germans and Anglo-Saxons.

But the owners of British and American media managed to stampede the Brits and Americans into a fraternal war with Germans, because the British and American media never told their readers the truth about Stalin.

They portrayed the mass murderer Stalin as a "good guy" in their media, that is the reason why Brits and Americans accepted the union with the most murderous regime that existed till the beginning of WWII.

How many civilians were killed by Stalin till the outbreak of WWII?

Well, only during the Holodomor were killed more than 7 Million Christians, and the total number of killed Christians till the outbreak of WWII was more than 10 Million.

And how many civilians were killed by Hitler till the outbreak of WWII?

It is obvious that Stalin was the greatest murderer in September 1939 and even in June 1941, but Western powers preferred a union with a person who intended to establish a GULAG-System on the entire European continent.

Does that make any sense? Millions of life could have been saved, if western powers had the intention to avoid WWII.

And according to Churchill it was very easy to avoid WWII.

Here are his words:

Sinews of Peace (1946)
by Winston Churchill

Up till the year 1933 or even 1935, Germany might have been saved from the awful fate which has overtaken here and we might all have been spared the miseries Hitler let loose upon mankind. There never was a war in history easier to prevent by timely action than the one which has just desolated such great areas of the globe. It could have been prevented in my belief without the firing of a single shot, and Germany might be powerful, prosperous and honored today

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Sinews_of_Peace

They could have easily prevented WWII, but they did not. The question is why?

Well, only if we assume that the interests of the British and American elite and their voters did not coincide, then we can find the answer.

So....who won WWII?

The banksters?

 

[Peterf]

As it was, we allowed the Soviets to do the majority of the fighting and dying in Europe while we sat back untouched at home

Great political and military strategy by FDR

As usual, your posts are informed by political bias rather than historical knowledge.


Try to remember the benefits of my input when you celebrate Thanksgiving.

FDR made the Soviets expend the blood while we came out of the war as a superpower with all of our industry intact

No doubt we won the war.....we have FDR to thank

Maybe you thank FDR. But not all the Poles, Czecks, Hungarians, Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians he gave to his murderous buddy Stalin.

FDR - my candidate for the worst US president of all, in a rather crowded field.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As usual, your posts are informed by political bias rather than historical knowledge.


Try to remember the benefits of my input when you celebrate Thanksgiving.

FDR made the Soviets expend the blood while we came out of the war as a superpower with all of our industry intact

No doubt we won the war.....we have FDR to thank

Maybe you thank FDR. But not all the Poles, Czecks, Hungarians, Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians he gave to his murderous buddy Stalin.

FDR - my candidate for the worst US president of all, in a rather crowded field.

The wingster was told what to think many years ago.....and now he simply perseverates.....and drools.

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. Viktor Suvorov " is a Soviet Army Cold War-era Soviet military intelligence officer who defected to the United Kingdom, eventually becoming a famous writer and historian." Viktor Suvorov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In his 2008 "The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II," Suvorov explains that Stalin materially assisted Nazi Germany in its aggression so that the Soviet Union could intervene at the proper time and seize all of continental Europe for itself. Hopefully, Germany and the West would exhaust themselves fighting each other.

Well, many prominent Russian historians now agree with the arguments of Suvorov (Rezun).

The declassified Russian document support the argument that Stalin was planning an offensive war on Europe in May 1941, and he believed that Hitler would weaken the capitalist system, and after that Soviet tanks could invade Europe and beat Hitler and the rest of Europe.

Stalin's Missed Chance is a study by Russian military historian Mikhail Ivanovich Meltyukhov, author of several books and articles on Soviet military history.

Stalin's Missed Chance covers a theory of planned Soviet invasion raised by Viktor Suvorov, author of highly controversial books such as Icebreaker. Unlike Suvorov's works, Meltyukhov's book is based on archive materials, some of which were until recently classified. Contrary to many Western scholars (David Glantz, John D. Erickson, Richard Overy and others), Mikhail Meltyukhov concurs with Suvorov's claim that Stalin and the Soviet military leadership had planned an offensive against Germany in 1941.

...
The basic idea of Soviet military planning consisted in the fact that the Red Army was to concentrate near the border under the disguise of maneuvers and to go over into a sudden, decisive attack. "The absence of any references to the possible defensive operations of the Red Army shows that the discussion was not about the preparation for a pre-emptive strike but for the assault on Germany and its allies. This idea is clearly expressed in the document of May 15, 1941, by which the Red Army was to be guided in the beginning of war." Meltyukhov suggests that the assault on Germany was initially planned to take place on June 12, 1941, but was postponed because the Soviet leadership feared an Anglo-German reconciliation against the Soviet Union after the flight of Rudolf Hess on May 12, 1941.[16]

The basis for this assumption is revealed by Molotov's recollection 40 years later in a conversation with Russian journalist Ivan Stadnyuk: "I don't remember all the motives for cancelling this decision, but it seems to me that Hitler's deputy Rudolf Hess' flight to England played the main role there. The NKVD reconnaissance reported to us, that Hess on behalf of Hitler had proposed the United Kingdom to conclude peace and to participate in the military march against the USSR... If we at this time would have unleashed ourselves a war against Germany, would have moved forces to Europe, then England could have entered the alliance with Germany without any delay... And not only England. We could have been face to face with the entire capitalist world".[17]

Stalin's Missed Chance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The flight of Rudolf Hess to the UK scared Stalin, he was afraid that the entire Western world was now against the Communists.

That explained the strange behaviour of Stalin in the first two weeks after the German invasion. He planned an offensive and he did not believe that Hitler would dare to attack the superior SU without getting the support of "capitalists" (UK and USA)

There is evidence that Brits managed to fool Hitler into believing that they would not mind if he attacks the SU. That may be the reason why they killed Rudolf Hess, the man who desperately tried to prevent a large scale carnage of European people.



The ruling elite of the Western countries decided that Communism is less dangerous to their interests, though Stalin was eager to convert the entire Europe into a GULAG-System.

If Americans had not invented the nuclear bomb, Stalin would have easily conquered the entire Europe after wWII and fulfilled his plans.

The Soviets had a huge superiority of military power even before WWII (twice as many planes as Hitler, and four times more tanks before WWII, and to the end of WWII the Soviets managed to produce an astronomical amount of superior tanks, rockets and planes that were able to reach the Atlantic shore in a couple of weeks.

The western powers were scared to death by Stalin after WWII, that is the reason why they abandoned their Morgenthau Plan and re-armed what was left of Germany immediately after WWII.

Hitler was never a threat neither to the UK nor to the USA, he admired the British Empire and the United States. He was an Anglophile who tried to avoid a war with Anglo-Saxons in any case. The flight of Rudolf Hess to the UK was a desperate attempt to prevent a genocidal war between Germans and Anglo-Saxons.

But the owners of British and American media managed to stampede the Brits and Americans into a fraternal war with Germans, because the British and American media never told their readers the truth about Stalin.

They portrayed the mass murderer Stalin as a "good guy" in their media, that is the reason why Brits and Americans accepted the union with the most murderous regime that existed till the beginning of WWII.

How many civilians were killed by Stalin till the outbreak of WWII?

Well, only during the Holodomor were killed more than 7 Million Christians, and the total number of killed Christians till the outbreak of WWII was more than 10 Million.

And how many civilians were killed by Hitler till the outbreak of WWII?

It is obvious that Stalin was the greatest murderer in September 1939 and even in June 1941, but Western powers preferred a union with a person who intended to establish a GULAG-System on the entire European continent.

Does that make any sense? Millions of life could have been saved, if western powers had the intention to avoid WWII.

And according to Churchill it was very easy to avoid WWII.

Here are his words:

Sinews of Peace (1946)
by Winston Churchill

Up till the year 1933 or even 1935, Germany might have been saved from the awful fate which has overtaken here and we might all have been spared the miseries Hitler let loose upon mankind. There never was a war in history easier to prevent by timely action than the one which has just desolated such great areas of the globe. It could have been prevented in my belief without the firing of a single shot, and Germany might be powerful, prosperous and honored today

Sinews of Peace - Wikisource, the free online library

They could have easily prevented WWII, but they did not. The question is why?

Well, only if we assume that the interests of the British and American elite and their voters did not coincide, then we can find the answer.

So....who won WWII?

The banksters?

A famous passage in Whittaker Chambers' "Witness" continually bears remembering:

"You don't understand the class structure of American society," said Smetana, "or you would not ask such a question. In the United States, the working class are Democrats. The middle class are Republicans. The upper class are Communists."

 

[PoliticalChic]

Gorby offered Reagan a deal to end the cold war and Reagan grabbed it. Both Reagan and Gorby are to be commended for making the deal. It was a deal that would never have been offered under Stalin. It was also fortunate that Reagan was a Republican or the boards would be filled with posts explainng how the Democratic president sold out America and worse, was a commie lover and all the rest of the usual tripe.

This is the pap that was fed to followers like you to try to hide the credit that Reagan deserves.


"SO ON WHOM or what do we bestow the title of the "evil empire's" killer? Was it Mikhail Gorbachev himself who pulled down what Lenin and Stalin had built up? It is tempting to finger Gorbachev, but this would ascribe too much wisdom and foresight to a man who wanted merely to reform, but not to relinquish, the empire. At no point, however, did Gorbachev want to yield Moscow's pride of place as the number two superpower. And he was blissfully confident that the risks were tolerable: "There is no reason to fear the collapse or the end of socialism", Gorbachev assured Romanian leader Nicolae Ceausescu three weeks after the Berlin Wall had been breached and three weeks before the Romanian dictator was executed by his own people."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2751/is_77/ai_n6353166/pg_6/?tag=content;col1

 

[mamooth]

And PC gives her stamp of approval to posts saying we should have sided with the Nazis against Stalin.

That's how far gone they are in their partisan sickness. Solely to further hate against FDR and liberals, they'd throw their lot in with the Nazis.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And PC gives her stamp of approval to posts saying we should have sided with the Nazis against Stalin.

That's how far gone they are in their partisan sickness. Solely to further hate against FDR and liberals, they'd throw their lot in with the Nazis.

"And PC gives her stamp of approval to posts saying we should have sided with the Nazis against Stalin."

Let's see such a quote.


'Else you're a lying sleaze bag.


Oh....you are a lying sleaze bag....in that case, never mind.

 

[Bleipriester]

The USA were the big winner of the WWII. America overtook the world´s leadership from the British Empire.

 

[Toro]

Russia was a wasteland in the west. It lost millions of people and much of its infrastructure was destroyed.

Bleipriester is correct. The US was the dominant Superpower. It's currency became the world's reserve currency. It was the unquestioned leader in manufacturing and an economic behemoth the USSR could not match. Global institutions from the World Bank to GATT were effectively US institutions. The US took command over Western military operations through NATO. It's culture was spread throughout the world - who gave a fuck about Russian movies? It's corporations sold products that people around the world wanted.

Without a doubt, the US was the big winner of WWII.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Russia was a wasteland in the west. It lost millions of people and much of its infrastructure was destroyed.

Bleipriester is correct. The US was the dominant Superpower. It's currency became the world's reserve currency. It was the unquestioned leader in manufacturing and an economic behemoth the USSR could not match. Global institutions from the World Bank to GATT were effectively US institutions. The US took command over Western military operations through NATO. It's culture was spread throughout the world - who gave a fuck about Russian movies? It's corporations sold products that people around the world wanted.

Without a doubt, the US was the big winner of WWII.

Soviet communism = international socialism.

That translates into the end of national sovereignty.




Have you heard of 'The United Nations."

It's inception was due to Soviet spies in America.



"A young American diplomat was the leading force in the designing of the United Nations. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary planning for the U.N. was done.

He was Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn (Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later).

At Yalta it was agreed that the Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one. At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.

All of this seemed well and good until three years later. Alger Hiss was exposed as a communist spy...."
What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know




"Without a doubt, the US was the big winner of WWII."

Really?

 

[regent]

Gorby offered Reagan a deal to end the cold war and Reagan grabbed it. Both Reagan and Gorby are to be commended for making the deal. It was a deal that would never have been offered under Stalin. It was also fortunate that Reagan was a Republican or the boards would be filled with posts explainng how the Democratic president sold out America and worse, was a commie lover and all the rest of the usual tripe.

This is the pap that was fed to followers like you to try to hide the credit that Reagan deserves.


"SO ON WHOM or what do we bestow the title of the "evil empire's" killer? Was it Mikhail Gorbachev himself who pulled down what Lenin and Stalin had built up? It is tempting to finger Gorbachev, but this would ascribe too much wisdom and foresight to a man who wanted merely to reform, but not to relinquish, the empire. At no point, however, did Gorbachev want to yield Moscow's pride of place as the number two superpower. And he was blissfully confident that the risks were tolerable: "There is no reason to fear the collapse or the end of socialism", Gorbachev assured Romanian leader Nicolae Ceausescu three weeks after the Berlin Wall had been breached and three weeks before the Romanian dictator was executed by his own people."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2751/is_77/ai_n6353166/pg_6/?tag=content;col1

So Reagan got outsmarted too? Sounds like the commies outsmarted all the Americans, unless... unless the Americans were secret commies themselves? Hard to to believe, but Reagan did vote for FDR and he did live in Chicago for a time, in fact near the University of Chicago, where Obama taught, and where they worked on you know what at Stagg Field. Now it's becoming clear, Reagan was also a union leader, and he was in the movie business, and got divorced. Reagan also stayed in Hollywood during the war making propaganda films. It's understandable now why Reagan tried to destroy our economy with his tripling the debt and then meeting Gorbachev and finally making the "deal."

 

[Art__Allm]

"Without a doubt, the US was the big winner of WWII."

Really?

He means the American financial elite, the "upper class" that financed the rise of Bolshevism in Russia.

What to the American Middle Class, they lost the war, because "Cultural Communists" invaded the USA after WWII, and today USA became in cultural regard a communist country.

"Political Correctness", "Racism" and "Hate Speech" are code words from the vocabulary of Communists, these buzz words are used to eliminate the freedom of speech and all other freedoms that were the highest values of the USA before WWII.

 

[Art__Allm]

So Reagan got outsmarted too? Sounds like the commies outsmarted all the Americans, unless... unless the Americans were secret commies themselves?

There are different classes and different lobbies in America.
The term "Americans" does not make any sense.

What Americans do yo mean?

The Middle Class?

The Financial Elite?

Do you really believe that the American Middle Class (that is now disappearing) and the American Financial Elite are the same people who have the same interests?

Oh boy! How old are you?

 

[Art__Allm]

And PC gives her stamp of approval to posts saying we should have sided with the Nazis against Stalin.

Every government is supposed to represent the interests of the MAJORITY of the population it represents.

In some cases to stay out of European conflicts or the conflicts between Israel and his neighbours is in the BEST interests of the majority of Americans, though it may be not in the interests of the American "upper class", speak the American "financial elite".

Do you get my drift?

 

[Toro]

Russia was a wasteland in the west. It lost millions of people and much of its infrastructure was destroyed.

Bleipriester is correct. The US was the dominant Superpower. It's currency became the world's reserve currency. It was the unquestioned leader in manufacturing and an economic behemoth the USSR could not match. Global institutions from the World Bank to GATT were effectively US institutions. The US took command over Western military operations through NATO. It's culture was spread throughout the world - who gave a fuck about Russian movies? It's corporations sold products that people around the world wanted.

Without a doubt, the US was the big winner of WWII.

Soviet communism = international socialism.

That translates into the end of national sovereignty.




Have you heard of 'The United Nations."

It's inception was due to Soviet spies in America.



"A young American diplomat was the leading force in the designing of the United Nations. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary planning for the U.N. was done.

He was Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn (Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later).

At Yalta it was agreed that the Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one. At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.

All of this seemed well and good until three years later. Alger Hiss was exposed as a communist spy...."
What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know




"Without a doubt, the US was the big winner of WWII."

Really?

No offense, PC, but extreme right-wing sources with plots of communist conspiracies to take over world government via the UN are pretty nutty. It sounds very 9/11 twoofer-sih. These so-called communist spies in the US government co-opted everyone else to impose their vision of communist world government on the rest of the unsuspecting Congress and the American people. Uh-huh. And Churchill was a communist too.