This article sums up Bundy Ranch and Ferguson very nicely.

The2ndAmendment

Gold Member
Feb 16, 2013
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In a dependant and enslaved country.
If you respond without reading the article, I'll know. I'll respond to you with a big:

LOL RETARD LOL

Ferguson, Bundy Ranch, & 'Dancing The Night Away' With The Obamas | Zero Hedge

The events in Ferguson, Missouri went from what could have been just another all too common and tragic incident in which an unarmed black man is killed by an overly aggressive and unprofessional police force, to what may be a historically significant event in American history. So how did this transformation occur and what does it mean going forward? Those are the two questions I intend to address in this post.

There are two primary factors that have collided to create the current out of control situation in a suburb roughly 15 miles northwest of St. Louis, which before this past weekend, almost no one had ever heard of. The first factor is the underlying tension in American society that I have been writing about for several years now. Nowhere is this tension more apparent than in the minority majority inner cities or their outskirts. Being a privileged person, I have thankfully never experienced the dehumanization and oppression felt by so many in these disenfranchised communities, but I can still understand the fact that these neighborhoods are ground zero in the civil unrest that is likely to continue into the foreseeable future.

The second factor is the entirely inappropriate and dangerous militarization of police forces throughout these United States. While extreme tension between impoverished communities and the police has been well documented for decades and expressed through music and movies (I grew up with NWA’s Fuck Tha Police and Colors), the cops were generally speaking merely men and women driving around in patrol cars with guns and batons. Not to dismiss the violence that can and has been inflicted through those means, but the police in recent years have taken things to a whole new frightening level: Total Militarization.

I consider this trend to be such an existential threat to freedom and civil liberties that I have expended a considerable deal of time and energy over the past several years highlighting it. I have covered the topic too many times to list here (I will provide a compilation at the end of this post), but there is one in particular I want to mention. The post was published two months ago and was titled: The Militarization of Police Continues…Machine Guns, Grenade Launchers, Silencers and More. In it I quoted the following from a New York Times article:
 
What pisses me off is the way Obama is squandering the weaponry that was purchased a short while ago to fight terrorism. He must feel that the biggest threat in America is the citizens, because he's gutting our military.

An armored MRAP vehicle that cost the taxpayer over $600,000.00 Obama is practically giving them away to police departments for as little as $2500.00. There never was enough of them to protect all of our troops who are still deploying to Afghanistan today at Ft Campbell, and he's already giving them away. What are they going to use in any future conflict? Well, the answer is he's gutting the military to the point that deploying will be next to impossible. A policy letter was just released yesterday stating that the Pentagon was still on track to cut half of the active duty soldiers here at Ft Campbell as well as half of the civilian workforce during the next sequester in 2016. We don't even have what we need to take care of the place now, much less suffer a 50% reduction. Who in their right mind does this???
 
What pisses me off is the way Obama is squandering the weaponry that was purchased a short while ago to fight terrorism. He must feel that the biggest threat in America is the citizens, because he's gutting our military.

An armored MRAP vehicle that cost the taxpayer over $600,000.00 Obama is practically giving them away to police departments for as little as $2500.00. There never was enough of them to protect all of our troops who are still deploying to Afghanistan today at Ft Campbell, and he's already giving them away. What are they going to use in any future conflict? Well, the answer is he's gutting the military to the point that deploying will be next to impossible. A policy letter was just released yesterday stating that the Pentagon was still on track to cut half of the active duty soldiers here at Ft Campbell as well as half of the civilian workforce during the next sequester in 2016. We don't even have what we need to take care of the place now, much less suffer a 50% reduction. Who in their right mind does this???
Standing armies are very expensive and we are not going to have another big shooting war any time soon. Keeping force levels unrealistically high would be welfare for the MIC.
 
What pisses me off is the way Obama is squandering the weaponry that was purchased a short while ago to fight terrorism. He must feel that the biggest threat in America is the citizens, because he's gutting our military.

An armored MRAP vehicle that cost the taxpayer over $600,000.00 Obama is practically giving them away to police departments for as little as $2500.00. There never was enough of them to protect all of our troops who are still deploying to Afghanistan today at Ft Campbell, and he's already giving them away. What are they going to use in any future conflict? Well, the answer is he's gutting the military to the point that deploying will be next to impossible. A policy letter was just released yesterday stating that the Pentagon was still on track to cut half of the active duty soldiers here at Ft Campbell as well as half of the civilian workforce during the next sequester in 2016. We don't even have what we need to take care of the place now, much less suffer a 50% reduction. Who in their right mind does this???

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what compelling reason we have to still be IN Afghanistan.

The MRAP was a typical Military Industrial Complex boondoggle. It was designed because the HUMMV wasn't standing up really well to the IED's our enemies were using after we declared "Mission Accomplished".

The MRAP: Brilliant Buy, or Billions Wasted? | TIME.com

Despite the flawed production process, lack of testing, and bulky handling, MRAPs were praised for their ability to save lives and limbs. In 2010, USA Today reported that MRAPs cut casualties from 2000 to 2010 by 30%, perhaps saving dozens of lives each month. In 2011, the Pentagon MRAP shop estimated that MRAPs saved up to a stunning 40,000 lives — 10,000 in Iraq and 30,000 Afghanistan.

But there’s been a recent reappraisal. In July, Chris Rohlfs and Ryan Sullivan wrote in Foreign Affairs that “the heavily-protected vehicles were no more effective at reducing casualties than the medium armored vehicles.” And the MRAPs are “three times as expensive as medium protected vehicles.”

The study suggested that the “40,000 saved lives” figure was an “unreasonable” premise that assumes “if the Army used up-armored Humvees rather than MRAPs, every attack on a vehicle would have resulted in the death of everyone inside.” While it is clear MRAPs saved lives, it is absurd to assume a Humvee would lose every life it carried. Increased MRAPs also did not prevent IED casualties from skyrocketing in 2010.

So really, it kind of sounds like the Army bought a lemon, and are trying to fob it off on someone else like a used car.

picture+of+a+shifty+used+car+salesman.jpg


"It was owned by a little Old Lady from Afghanistan who only went to war on Sundays!"
 
What is your answer to the militarization of law enforcement in America, 2A?

First, realize that the "drug war" is a miserable failure. The majority of the cases that require overwhelming armed force on the part of the police are drug cases/raids.

Second, if the police/DA's have a habit of over-using force or of picking the wrong place to raid, they get fired, period. We have to understand that with great power, comes great responsibility. If they are unable to wield it, they should no longer be employed as peace officers/officers of the court. Find them a nice city/state job behind a desk, but they should not be able to continue with law enforcement.

Third, if regular american citizens cannot own a certain type of firearm or carry it, the police shouldn't either. At best heavy weapons should be stored in the precincts, like an armory, and only brought out if needed. They should also be restricted to the same mag limits as other citizens, and once retired, have to go through the same hoops other citizens have to go through to get a permit, NO FAVORITISM.

We have created a new class of knights with our police officers, they get additional rights that other citizens do not, they get to carry weapons even off duty when other citizens are restricted or forbidden, they get to skirt petty laws like parking regs because of the blue wall, and when they do something wrong they know the government will more often than not cover for them. Police officers are normal citizens with a job, a job WE give them, with the only real additional power (that should be given to them) is the ability to make an arrest without fear of criminal charges or civil charges (as long as they follow proper procedure). That should be it.
 
What pisses me off is the way Obama is squandering the weaponry that was purchased a short while ago to fight terrorism. He must feel that the biggest threat in America is the citizens, because he's gutting our military.

An armored MRAP vehicle that cost the taxpayer over $600,000.00 Obama is practically giving them away to police departments for as little as $2500.00. There never was enough of them to protect all of our troops who are still deploying to Afghanistan today at Ft Campbell, and he's already giving them away. What are they going to use in any future conflict? Well, the answer is he's gutting the military to the point that deploying will be next to impossible. A policy letter was just released yesterday stating that the Pentagon was still on track to cut half of the active duty soldiers here at Ft Campbell as well as half of the civilian workforce during the next sequester in 2016. We don't even have what we need to take care of the place now, much less suffer a 50% reduction. Who in their right mind does this???

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what compelling reason we have to still be IN Afghanistan.

The MRAP was a typical Military Industrial Complex boondoggle. It was designed because the HUMMV wasn't standing up really well to the IED's our enemies were using after we declared "Mission Accomplished".

The MRAP: Brilliant Buy, or Billions Wasted? | TIME.com

Despite the flawed production process, lack of testing, and bulky handling, MRAPs were praised for their ability to save lives and limbs. In 2010, USA Today reported that MRAPs cut casualties from 2000 to 2010 by 30%, perhaps saving dozens of lives each month. In 2011, the Pentagon MRAP shop estimated that MRAPs saved up to a stunning 40,000 lives — 10,000 in Iraq and 30,000 Afghanistan.

But there’s been a recent reappraisal. In July, Chris Rohlfs and Ryan Sullivan wrote in Foreign Affairs that “the heavily-protected vehicles were no more effective at reducing casualties than the medium armored vehicles.” And the MRAPs are “three times as expensive as medium protected vehicles.”

The study suggested that the “40,000 saved lives” figure was an “unreasonable” premise that assumes “if the Army used up-armored Humvees rather than MRAPs, every attack on a vehicle would have resulted in the death of everyone inside.” While it is clear MRAPs saved lives, it is absurd to assume a Humvee would lose every life it carried. Increased MRAPs also did not prevent IED casualties from skyrocketing in 2010.

So really, it kind of sounds like the Army bought a lemon, and are trying to fob it off on someone else like a used car.

picture+of+a+shifty+used+car+salesman.jpg


"It was owned by a little Old Lady from Afghanistan who only went to war on Sundays!"

So you claim that because the vehicle doesn't reduce casualties 100% it's a lemon?

All of the whining about the costs of the war and this guy Obama is literally giving away whatever we have to show for all of those costs. $600K a crack just thrown away, and I would have loved to have one when I was in Somalia in 93', and because of Obama's policies we won't have them in the future.

Makes sense.....:cuckoo:
 
Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.
 
What pisses me off is the way Obama is squandering the weaponry that was purchased a short while ago to fight terrorism. He must feel that the biggest threat in America is the citizens, because he's gutting our military.

An armored MRAP vehicle that cost the taxpayer over $600,000.00 Obama is practically giving them away to police departments for as little as $2500.00. There never was enough of them to protect all of our troops who are still deploying to Afghanistan today at Ft Campbell, and he's already giving them away. What are they going to use in any future conflict? Well, the answer is he's gutting the military to the point that deploying will be next to impossible. A policy letter was just released yesterday stating that the Pentagon was still on track to cut half of the active duty soldiers here at Ft Campbell as well as half of the civilian workforce during the next sequester in 2016. We don't even have what we need to take care of the place now, much less suffer a 50% reduction. Who in their right mind does this???

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what compelling reason we have to still be IN Afghanistan.

The MRAP was a typical Military Industrial Complex boondoggle. It was designed because the HUMMV wasn't standing up really well to the IED's our enemies were using after we declared "Mission Accomplished".

The MRAP: Brilliant Buy, or Billions Wasted? | TIME.com

Despite the flawed production process, lack of testing, and bulky handling, MRAPs were praised for their ability to save lives and limbs. In 2010, USA Today reported that MRAPs cut casualties from 2000 to 2010 by 30%, perhaps saving dozens of lives each month. In 2011, the Pentagon MRAP shop estimated that MRAPs saved up to a stunning 40,000 lives — 10,000 in Iraq and 30,000 Afghanistan.

But there’s been a recent reappraisal. In July, Chris Rohlfs and Ryan Sullivan wrote in Foreign Affairs that “the heavily-protected vehicles were no more effective at reducing casualties than the medium armored vehicles.” And the MRAPs are “three times as expensive as medium protected vehicles.”

The study suggested that the “40,000 saved lives” figure was an “unreasonable” premise that assumes “if the Army used up-armored Humvees rather than MRAPs, every attack on a vehicle would have resulted in the death of everyone inside.” While it is clear MRAPs saved lives, it is absurd to assume a Humvee would lose every life it carried. Increased MRAPs also did not prevent IED casualties from skyrocketing in 2010.

So really, it kind of sounds like the Army bought a lemon, and are trying to fob it off on someone else like a used car.

picture+of+a+shifty+used+car+salesman.jpg


"It was owned by a little Old Lady from Afghanistan who only went to war on Sundays!"

So you claim that because the vehicle doesn't reduce casualties 100% it's a lemon?

All of the whining about the costs of the war and this guy Obama is literally giving away whatever we have to show for all of those costs.
$600K a crack just thrown away, and I would have loved to have one when I was in Somalia in 93', and because of Obama's policies we won't have them in the future.

Makes sense.....:cuckoo:

I bet you really went crazy when we supplied the entire Iraqi army with weapons and equipment. Which they promptly let ISIS have. That wasn't very smart now was it? And Obama didn't even do that.
 
[

So you claim that because the vehicle doesn't reduce casualties 100% it's a lemon?

All of the whining about the costs of the war and this guy Obama is literally giving away whatever we have to show for all of those costs. $600K a crack just thrown away, and I would have loved to have one when I was in Somalia in 93', and because of Obama's policies we won't have them in the future.

Makes sense.....:cuckoo:

What i'd love is if we didn't go into places like Somalia or Afghanistan or Iraq which are none of our business.

someone sold the Army a $600K lemon that they won't have any real use for after Afghanistan ends next year. so they are fobbing them off on Police departments, which use them to intimidate but they don't have any practical use.
 
Some of the safest places in the world are patrolled by law enforcement officers who do not carry guns of any kind.

We should take a look at those places and maybe get an idea or two about how to improve the way we do things here.
 
Yea, I'm sure the cops are really gonna like the idea that THEY have to give up firepower so that the criminals can have the upper hand in fire power. I don't think the cops will go along with that idea.
 
Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.

Which would be a point if the kid was actually armed, and the officer was armed with something more than his normal handgun.

The incident itself has nothing to do with police militarization, the response to the discontent and rioting of the people of Fergueson has everything to do with it.

And do you really think the government would give up its weapons if by some theoretical miracle you disarmed everyone else?

People have ALWAYS been armed better or just as good as the police. The number of officers killed by military weapons is a fraction of the overall deaths.

This is just a typical "guns are bad in non-governmental hands" screed, the usual stuff from Joe.
 
Is the answer to disarm local police and leave it to state police or to provide local police better training and tactics?
 
Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.

The police have been out gunned since the 70s.

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the president disarming the military at the same time he's arming civilians here and abroad.
 
Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.

The police have been out gunned since the 70s.

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the president disarming the military at the same time he's arming civilians here and abroad.

President Obama is doing that?
 

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