This article sums up Bundy Ranch and Ferguson very nicely.

[JoeB131]

Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.

Which would be a point if the kid was actually armed, and the officer was armed with something more than his normal handgun.

The incident itself has nothing to do with police militarization, the response to the discontent and rioting of the people of Fergueson has everything to do with it.

And do you really think the government would give up its weapons if by some theoretical miracle you disarmed everyone else?

People have ALWAYS been armed better or just as good as the police. The number of officers killed by military weapons is a fraction of the overall deaths.

This is just a typical "guns are bad in non-governmental hands" screed, the usual stuff from Joe.

Are the Japanese Police driving around in armored vehicles?

How about the German Police?

Or the British Police?

HOw often do they have shooting incidents?

Here, I'll give you a hint.

Japanese up in arms as police dare to use guns - World - News - The Independent

Craig Parker, a professor of criminal law in the US who has written a book on the Japanese police system, interviewed 50 policemen in Tokyo in the early Eighties: only one had drawn his gun in the line of duty and even then he had not fired it.


Wow. How about that. When you don't have a population armed like the Zombies are coming, police have guns, but rarely have to use them.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.

The police have been out gunned since the 70s.

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the president disarming the military at the same time he's arming civilians here and abroad.

Yeah, guy, but in the 1970's, you didn't have the NRA supporting selling AR-15's to Nancy Lanza.

In fact, back in the 1970's, the NRA supported common sense gun laws.

 

[Freewill]

The reason to not militarize the police is that the power they are given wants to be used. Why would people train for months and then just sit around and never use that power? I think that is what lead to Waco. The defense of the ATF is that the Dravidians were making and selling illegal guns, later when proved false the other accusations were thrown in. But imagine if the ATF didn't have a virtual standing army. Do you think they would have attacked the compound? Do you think that the situation would have been handled much differently?

How about Ruby Ridge? If the government didn't have trained snipers do you think that situation would have been handled differently?

That all said, what happened in Furgenson does not seem to be a result of the militarization of our police. Apparently though it is a crisis that some do not want to waste. Where was the left wing protest when the "tanks" rolled on Waco? Where was the left wing protest when the ATF agents were shooting blindly into a wooden building? Where is the left wing protest when Obama uses the military to kill US citizens without due process? (The ACLU did file a lawsuit) It may well turn out that this man in Furgenson did do something that prompted the shooting, we can't know for now. That incident seems to be between two men.

Now, what do we do about the riot? Do you send the police in with 9 mm and no cover or do we just let Furgenson descend into anarchy and let the civilians fight it out for themselves? I am not willing to send men and women into a hell hole without protection. But I am also not willing to send in para-military forces, such as at Waco, to just show the strength of the government.

 

[martybegan]

Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.

Which would be a point if the kid was actually armed, and the officer was armed with something more than his normal handgun.

The incident itself has nothing to do with police militarization, the response to the discontent and rioting of the people of Fergueson has everything to do with it.

And do you really think the government would give up its weapons if by some theoretical miracle you disarmed everyone else?

People have ALWAYS been armed better or just as good as the police. The number of officers killed by military weapons is a fraction of the overall deaths.

This is just a typical "guns are bad in non-governmental hands" screed, the usual stuff from Joe.

Are the Japanese Police driving around in armored vehicles?

How about the German Police?

Or the British Police?

HOw often do they have shooting incidents?

Here, I'll give you a hint.

Japanese up in arms as police dare to use guns - World - News - The Independent

Craig Parker, a professor of criminal law in the US who has written a book on the Japanese police system, interviewed 50 policemen in Tokyo in the early Eighties: only one had drawn his gun in the line of duty and even then he had not fired it.


Wow. How about that. When you don't have a population armed like the Zombies are coming, police have guns, but rarely have to use them.

We have been through this before, you can't compare cultures. In Japan they kill themselves far more than they kill others. Germans are too organized for the whole mass shooting thing. And the English have their issues with knives bottles and clubs.

In Japan the people are what makes the difference, they are subservient to authority, as per eastern mores and means.

 

[martybegan]

Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.

The police have been out gunned since the 70s.

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the president disarming the military at the same time he's arming civilians here and abroad.

Yeah, guy, but in the 1970's, you didn't have the NRA supporting selling AR-15's to Nancy Lanza.

In fact, back in the 1970's, the NRA supported common sense gun laws.

Because you assholes started advocating disarmament, which is as far from common sense as you can get.

We have background checks, we have laws against felons owning guns, we have laws against mentally adjudicated people owning guns, and yet the bad guys still get them.

 

[JoeB131]

We have been through this before, you can't compare cultures. In Japan they kill themselves far more than they kill others. Germans are too organized for the whole mass shooting thing. And the English have their issues with knives bottles and clubs.

In Japan the people are what makes the difference, they are subservient to authority, as per eastern mores and means.

Wait. Germans are "too organized" for mass shootings? NOt sure where you get that nonsense.

We have mass shootings because people like Adam Lanza can get guns.

 

[Freewill]

Is the answer to disarm local police and leave it to state police or to provide local police better training and tactics?

I am not willing to send police into the inner city without some sort of protection. I am not willing to rush to judgment over this one incident or the reaction of those lawless citizens in the community.

I have been railing about the militarization of the government since the clear abuse at Waco. But I don't see a parallel between what happened at Furgenson and the armed raid by the ATF at Waco.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Because you assholes started advocating disarmament, which is as far from common sense as you can get.

We have background checks, we have laws against felons owning guns, we have laws against mentally adjudicated people owning guns, and yet the bad guys still get them.

We have laws against prostitution, and there's a massage parlor operating not more than a mile from where i work, pretty much out in the open.

Having a law and not really enforcing it is worse than having a law at all.

If you have a background check and Jared Loughner or Joker HOlmes was able to get a gun, anyway, then you don't have a good background check.

 

[martybegan]

[

Because you assholes started advocating disarmament, which is as far from common sense as you can get.

We have background checks, we have laws against felons owning guns, we have laws against mentally adjudicated people owning guns, and yet the bad guys still get them.

We have laws against prostitution, and there's a massage parlor operating not more than a mile from where i work, pretty much out in the open.

Having a law and not really enforcing it is worse than having a law at all.

If you have a background check and Jared Loughner or Joker HOlmes was able to get a gun, anyway, then you don't have a good background check.

Then enforce the ones we have before adding new ones.

Unless background checks involve seeing the future or reading minds, or until the mental health system is fixed, people will get through. it is still no reason to prevent or inhibit me from owning a firearm, or carrying one in public.

 

[martybegan]

We have been through this before, you can't compare cultures. In Japan they kill themselves far more than they kill others. Germans are too organized for the whole mass shooting thing. And the English have their issues with knives bottles and clubs.

In Japan the people are what makes the difference, they are subservient to authority, as per eastern mores and means.

Wait. Germans are "too organized" for mass shootings? NOt sure where you get that nonsense.

We have mass shootings because people like Adam Lanza can get guns.

They only seem to do it when the government tells them, or when they are communists. (RAB).

And again, still not a reason for me not to be able to get a gun.

 

[mudwhistle]

Okay, let's get realistic here.

The reason why the cops are so heavily armed is no one wants dead cops. So because the NRA has done such a wonderful job making sure that the Nancy Lanzas of the world are armed like the Zombie Apocalypse is coming, we want our police to be armed and protected well enough so they come home to their families at night.

Which works well, up until the point where you get ugly scenes like Fergeson where they use that firepower with impunity.

It's an arms race, and then one morning, we all wake up and find ourselves terrified about how scary these weapons are.

Which would be a point if the kid was actually armed, and the officer was armed with something more than his normal handgun.

The incident itself has nothing to do with police militarization, the response to the discontent and rioting of the people of Fergueson has everything to do with it.

And do you really think the government would give up its weapons if by some theoretical miracle you disarmed everyone else?

People have ALWAYS been armed better or just as good as the police. The number of officers killed by military weapons is a fraction of the overall deaths.

This is just a typical "guns are bad in non-governmental hands" screed, the usual stuff from Joe.

How about the German Police?

Or the British Police?

HOw often do they have shooting incidents?

Here, I'll give you a hint.

Japanese up in arms as police dare to use guns - World - News - The Independent

Craig Parker, a professor of criminal law in the US who has written a book on the Japanese police system, interviewed 50 policemen in Tokyo in the early Eighties: only one had drawn his gun in the line of duty and even then he had not fired it.


Wow. How about that. When you don't have a population armed like the Zombies are coming, police have guns, but rarely have to use them.

..We'be talked about this before.

Germans and Japanese nationals have societies that teach accountability and a respect for authority figures, whereas here in America our kids are taught not to trust the police and our politicians mock our moral values and break our laws.

Why should your average thugs respect the law when our president doesn't.

 

[JoeB131]

[q

..We'be talked about this before.

Germans and Japanese nationals have societies that teach accountability and a respect for authority figures, whereas here in America our kids are taught not to trust the police and our politicians mock our moral values and break our laws.

Why should your average thugs respect the law when our president doesn't.

It never ceases to amaze me that you guys want to blame EVERYTHING for gun violence...

except for the guns.

You think the Germans and Japanese don't have crooked politicians?

 

[JoeB131]

We have been through this before, you can't compare cultures. In Japan they kill themselves far more than they kill others. Germans are too organized for the whole mass shooting thing. And the English have their issues with knives bottles and clubs.

In Japan the people are what makes the difference, they are subservient to authority, as per eastern mores and means.

Wait. Germans are "too organized" for mass shootings? NOt sure where you get that nonsense.

We have mass shootings because people like Adam Lanza can get guns.

They only seem to do it when the government tells them, or when they are communists. (RAB).

And again, still not a reason for me not to be able to get a gun.

I haven't seen a compelling reason why the rest of us should let you have a gun.

But here's the thing. Germany actually does have a high level of gun ownership. About 17 million privately owned guns for some 80 million citizens.

What they don't have is this silly notion that gun ownership is a right, therefore guns are properly regulated, licensed, controlled and can be taken away when the privilage is abused.