This Is a Real Reason Why Middle-Class Incomes Remain Stagnant

[OnePercenter]

Actually worker's wagers ARE the personal piggy bank of employers. Where do you think those wages come from?

I see we agree.

 

[OnePercenter]

Simple. If you make widgets for $5.00 a piece, and government forces you to sell your widgets at $4.50 a piece, then you are losing money.

Under my plan, the cost of making the widget would reduce $.50 per unit, so it would be a push. PLUS! The greater middle class spending would boost sales.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Simple. If you make widgets for $5.00 a piece, and government forces you to sell your widgets at $4.50 a piece, then you are losing money.

Under my plan, the cost of making the widget would reduce $.50 per unit, so it would be a push. PLUS! The greater middle class spending would boost sales.

How would you be able to increase wages and decrease the cost of a product? If I'm losing money selling my widgets at a 50 cent loss, so are my suppliers that used to provide me with the material to make those widgets.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Eventually I did, but I lived through the Reagan recession which was much worse than Obama's. I became unemployed at the beginning of that recession and took any job that paid, even if I was making less than minimum wage which was somewhere around $3.50 an hour at the time.

Once Reagan got the economy going again, I didn't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I took other jobs just for extra money.

Eventually is when Daddy Bush reversed Reaganomics.

No, Reagan got reelected because of the booming economy. And if you think Bush reversed anything Reagan did, you better tell your fellow liberal cohorts because they keep saying our economy today is Reagan's fault.

 

[OnePercenter]

I think you are a liar. Nobody can pay their employees twice as much as their competitors and stay in business. That's why many of our jobs are now overseas.

You can think what you want, but you'll be wrong.

The question you have to ask yourself: How can increased spending bring greater revenue?

Answer that question and you'll be smarter than 50% of business owners.

 

[rightwinger]

Eventually I did, but I lived through the Reagan recession which was much worse than Obama's. I became unemployed at the beginning of that recession and took any job that paid, even if I was making less than minimum wage which was somewhere around $3.50 an hour at the time.

Once Reagan got the economy going again, I didn't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I took other jobs just for extra money.

Eventually is when Daddy Bush reversed Reaganomics.

No, Reagan got reelected because of the booming economy. And if you think Bush reversed anything Reagan did, you better tell your fellow liberal cohorts because they keep saying our economy today is Reagan's fault.

The destruction of the middle class as well as our deficit spending were Reagan's fault

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What you don't understand is that your idea only works in your little world.

In reality, all costs to business get passed down to us--the little people.

For instance, everybody wants cleaner air. Oh how nice cleaner air is. So in the trucking industry, we got hit with all kinds of environmental costs. A new tractor today costs over 10K than they did seven years ago. Why? Because of all the pollution BS they have to manufacture those trucks with.

Then we have this stuff called Diesel Emission Fluid, or DEF for short. It's a separate container that squirts that goofy fluid into the exhaust pipe to make it cleaner. During the Bush regime, the EPA forced refineries to make diesel fuel cleaner by greatly lowering the sulfur content. Since that time, diesel fuel increased to around a dollar a gallon more than gasoline, and it's still that way today. Prior to that, diesel was cheaper than gasoline.

So my employer has to pay more for trucks, more for diesel fuel, has to buy DEF for the trucks, and 80% of the problems with the trucks we have have to do with some pollution gadget going haywire. So who do you think pays for all this, my employer?

Of course not. My employer has to increase our fees to our customers. Our customers who manufacture the products we buy at the store has to increase their prices to cover additional transportation costs. That's how it works in the real world.

BULLSHIT! One of the businesses I own is an equipment leasing company. I buy wholesale from Peterbilt, KW, International, Hino (Toyota), and Ford. The added environmental adds only increased prices 2%. Then the lowering of diesel fuel prices more than pays for DEF fluid.

If your employer is raising prices, it's probably going to his 'Maui beach house fund.'

No, a new truck today costs 10% more than trucks did seven or eight years ago. This is information my employer got from all the salesmen. Plus these trucks breakdown all the time because of all the pollution gadgets in them. As the head mechanic told me at Freightliner, they don't have one computer any longer. Trucks have two to three computers that have to work in sync with each other because of the pollution nonsense. Here up north, we usually don't get winters this mild. Our freezing temperatures play hell on those computers and they are constantly causing problems.

Yes, lower fuel prices are a huge plus, but that was not the case just a few years ago. Everybody was charging fuel surcharges because it was the only way to stay in business.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Eventually I did, but I lived through the Reagan recession which was much worse than Obama's. I became unemployed at the beginning of that recession and took any job that paid, even if I was making less than minimum wage which was somewhere around $3.50 an hour at the time.

Once Reagan got the economy going again, I didn't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I took other jobs just for extra money.

Eventually is when Daddy Bush reversed Reaganomics.

No, Reagan got reelected because of the booming economy. And if you think Bush reversed anything Reagan did, you better tell your fellow liberal cohorts because they keep saying our economy today is Reagan's fault.

The destruction of the middle class as well as our deficit spending were Reagan's fault

Reagan had nothing to do with spending for over 25 years. It's time liberals start accepting blame for their own doings.

 

[rightwinger]

Eventually I did, but I lived through the Reagan recession which was much worse than Obama's. I became unemployed at the beginning of that recession and took any job that paid, even if I was making less than minimum wage which was somewhere around $3.50 an hour at the time.

Once Reagan got the economy going again, I didn't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I took other jobs just for extra money.

Eventually is when Daddy Bush reversed Reaganomics.

No, Reagan got reelected because of the booming economy. And if you think Bush reversed anything Reagan did, you better tell your fellow liberal cohorts because they keep saying our economy today is Reagan's fault.

The destruction of the middle class as well as our deficit spending were Reagan's fault

Reagan had nothing to do with spending for over 25 years. It's time liberals start accepting blame for their own doings.

Reagan put us in a permanent hole
We couldn't afford the spending we once did

For the richest nation on earth...we chose to invest in tax cuts

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think you are a liar. Nobody can pay their employees twice as much as their competitors and stay in business. That's why many of our jobs are now overseas.

You can think what you want, but you'll be wrong.

The question you have to ask yourself: How can increased spending bring greater revenue?

Answer that question and you'll be smarter than 50% of business owners.

It can't, and yes, I also run my own business. Not only that, but my line of work puts me in contact with all kinds of business owners. If a business overpays their workers, they can't compete price wise with their competitors. Employee costs are huge, it's not just wages. The higher the wages, the higher the employees SS and Medicare contributions are that the employer must match. The higher the rate of pay, the higher the unemployment insurance costs are not to mention workman's compensation. Then there are other costs such as paid holidays and vacation.

Many small business owners make a meager living. My boss comes to work at 7:00 every day and doesn't leave until 4:00. He does okay, but he certainly doesn't live high on the hog.

 

[OnePercenter]

Because businesses heavily rely on investors. Investors are attracted to the growth rate of a company. If a company is overpaying their employees and creating jobs just for the hell of it, they have a terrible growth rate and no investors. Eventually they go out of business.

Sure. But what % of investment return do investors want?

Something bad happened during baby Bush. Investment returns were huge do to the false economy. For the most part, investors today seek the same unrealistic returns.

 

[OnePercenter]

If the 1% you refer to are the people with functional brains. Then yes I'd hope so.

The minimum wage increase to $15 is one of the stupidest ideas I've seen in a very long time. I'll give you a good example of why this is so stupid.

Let's go with McDonalds. Posted roughly a 20% profit margin, which btw is exceptional for fast food. According to what I've seen labor is about 25% of cost of sales for them.

How are you going to double the labor cost, and what's going to be it's impact on the business model?

1 - Will they cut staff?
2 - Will they raise prices?
3 - Will there be a combination of both?

Note that these are the only 3 alternatives. The most likely answer will be option 3. They will go with more automation which will cut jobs and offset some of the need to increase prices and maintain a good profit margin.

Now this doesn't sound as bad does it? Of course this won't be the only company who does this, and where are those now unemployable workers going to go? Why onto the federal dole, which btw will have to increase what it pays out due to the increased costs on well....pretty much everything.

Now here's where the real fun starts. Let's go with the guy making $15 an hour before the min wage increase. Congratulations...he's now making minimum wage. Think his employer is going to increase his pay....just cause? He might for his more important personnel, but he won't for everyone in most cases. Said employee will see his buying power plummet, and guess who else might need some federal assistance?

Guess he'll have to go buy less fast food...and other things he normally does. At this point I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with something called the Misery Index.

That 20% doesn't include franchisee salaries and bonuses.

 

[Billy000]

the problem with the people who are democrats. they believe we are here to make their lives for them. they don't care what it does to a business or us

back in the day you couldn't make enough to support yourselves or the kids you plop out. the fathers usually got a second job. now today the fathers are demanding a business raise all their prices on the good they are selling so they pay their sorry asses to work for them.

Something wrong with this Society. no honor or pride

Democrats support the working class. Republicans support the rich and wealthy.

Democrats support tax and spend. Republicans support lower taxes and spending.

Yeah and the latter is what drives up the debt lol.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because businesses heavily rely on investors. Investors are attracted to the growth rate of a company. If a company is overpaying their employees and creating jobs just for the hell of it, they have a terrible growth rate and no investors. Eventually they go out of business.

Sure. But what % of investment return do investors want?

Something bad happened during baby Bush. Investment returns were huge do to the false economy. For the most part, investors today seek the same unrealistic returns.

It depends on what kind of investment strategy you wish to have for yourself.

A safe conservative investment would probably pay around the 5% area and perhaps a little more. A more risky investment may pay 10% or more. A very dangerous investment but potential high return is probably in the 15 to 20% bracket. It's all based on how much risk you wish to take.

Most people are not day traders and usually invest in something more long term conservative. But they won't invest in a company with a 2% growth. They are probably looking for a 7% growth.

 

[OnePercenter]

McDonald's orders 7,000 touchscreen kiosks to replace cashiers

Which is only to provide a different way of payment.

Who give the customer their order? The laid-off cashiers?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the problem with the people who are democrats. they believe we are here to make their lives for them. they don't care what it does to a business or us

back in the day you couldn't make enough to support yourselves or the kids you plop out. the fathers usually got a second job. now today the fathers are demanding a business raise all their prices on the good they are selling so they pay their sorry asses to work for them.

Something wrong with this Society. no honor or pride

Democrats support the working class. Republicans support the rich and wealthy.

Democrats support tax and spend. Republicans support lower taxes and spending.

Yeah and the latter is what drives up the debt lol.

No, you don't have debt because you take in less money. You have debt when you spend more money than you take in. Spending is the problem in this country.

 

[Rustic]

Republicans refuse to vote for a minimum wage increase, and then complain that wages are too low.

Your solution is like putting a bandaids on a broken arm, sure it may look like something is being done(to the naïve bleeding heart progressive).
Your Idea is childish at best, Federal government can't fix anything nor can they create a single job.

This what happens when the government controls all aspects of life...

Stats About Pine Ridge

 

[OnePercenter]

American workers are among the most productive on earth. They also work more hours and receive less vacation and benefits and retire later than the rest of the world....In spite of what conservatives claim...American workers are not lazy

Amen! I employ 500 of the best in the nation.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

McDonald's orders 7,000 touchscreen kiosks to replace cashiers

Which is only to provide a different way of payment.

Who give the customer their order? The laid-off cashiers?

Eventually, yes. Instead of having 14 employees at a store, they may reduce that to 4 or 5 people. It's not just McDonald's, it's everybody. Been going on for at least a decade or more. Machines are becoming cheaper to buy and wages with benefits for real people continue to increase. Eventually your Big Mac will be made on an assembly line of mini robots.

 

[francoHFW]

the problem with the people who are democrats. they believe we are here to make their lives for them. they don't care what it does to a business or us

back in the day you couldn't make enough to support yourselves or the kids you plop out. the fathers usually got a second job. now today the fathers are demanding a business raise all their prices on the good they are selling so they pay their sorry asses to work for them.

Something wrong with this Society. no honor or pride

Democrats support the working class. Republicans support the rich and wealthy.

Democrats support tax and spend. Republicans support lower taxes and spending.

Yeah and the latter is what drives up the debt lol.

No, you don't have debt because you take in less money. You have debt when you spend more money than you take in. Spending is the problem in this country.

Or taxes on the rich and giant corps are too low, and the nonrich have gone to hell, fact free dupe.
Notice anything happening under Reaganism?:
The Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.

Over the past 30 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105% – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 = 96%
2007 = 92%

A 13% drop since 1980

2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

An increase of 16% since Reagan.

3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

A 12.3% drop after Reagan.

4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

A 5.6 times increase.

6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 = 6%
1990 = 3%
2000 = 2%

A 10% Decrease.

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – Congratulations to Emmanuel Saez
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = Federated Prudent Bear Fund (A): Overview
4 = FRB: Z.1 Release--Financial Accounts of the United States--December 10, 2015
5/6 = 15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts