This is how we end it! (solution)

[Coyote]

Jews are not very safe. Look at their history of persecution and the rise of antisemitism around the world

I have in some depth and what we see today in terms of what is commonly called antisemitism is mainly due to the zionist regime.

Please stop with the holocaust stuff.

How can you inderstand their mindset if you exclude the holocaust? Thats like excluding Nakba.

 

[abi]

Still, this Hanukkah, a number of synagogues in Canada received startling, genocidal death notes. Our local synagogue also received hate mail this past week.

Many times if not nearly 100% of the time, these crimes are done by zionists. It's sad as hell and then every time they are caught they are just written off as crazy when their real intention was to develop sympathy for Israel.

 

[abi]

How can you inderstand their mindset if you exclude the holocaust?

I understand the mindset; believe me. I went to Hebrew school for years. But constantly bringing up what Germans did and then using that tragedy to lay another on the Palestinian people is morally reprehensible.

 

[Coyote]

The problem when fanatics overrun the argument is that it is easy to become defensive and inflexible protecting your corner against really awfull rhetoric. I find it gets harder to see both sides very well

Do you acknowledge an occupation and settlements?

What do you mean acknowledge? I oppose settlements as a deliberate provocation and obstacle to the peace process

Islam, which is what Israel is dealing with, needs no provocation. People that cannot admit the hate for Jews taught in the Koran and to Palestinian children guarantees no solution will ever be found. Islam will not honor treaties, it is not bound to, also clearly stated in Islamic literature.

Topic isnt Islam. Find another thread to share your hate.

Still, this Hanukkah, a number of synagogues in Canada received startling, genocidal death notes. Our local synagogue also received hate mail this past week.

Many times if not nearly 100% of the time, these crimes are done by zionists. It's sad as hell and then every time they are caught they are just written off as crazy when their real intention was to develop sympathy for Israel.

Oh geez. Thanks for proving multiple points here.

 

[flacaltenn]

There can never be peace without mutual recognition and acceptance.

Can you clarify this please?

You have been making this point in a few threads recently and I would like to understand what you mean exactly by "mutual recognition and acceptance".

Cessation of all claims which reject Jewish history, Jewish rights and Jewish presence.
Cessation of all requirements for dissolution of the Jewish State/Israel.
Removing all references to Arab-only or Palestinian-only land in the territory in charters and documents.
Revision of all UNESCO documents to re-claim Jewish/Israeli historical sites as Jewish/Israeli historical sites.
Formal recognition of Israel.

Stuff like that.

So, "mutual" as in as long as it is 'mutually' Israel.

I don't think anyone in the neighborhood wants a New "failed state" as a neighbor. So EVERYBODY is concerned about a healthy economic/political outlook. Gaza was a good example of a "city state" that had all the abilities to thrive on it's own. That's why it got fought over.

So "mutual recognition and acceptance" HAS to consider the viability of the deal. State security is a BIG issue. The leadership of future Palestine has to have a credible national defense. Mutual recognition and acceptance of THAT is required. They also have to have a means of connectivity between its sovereign lands. Also a part of that. For Israel -- there are PLENTY of "nuts and bolts" elements of Pali Statehood that requires them to "accept and recognize" a new neighbor state. And it's NOT EASY -- given the history and the disorganization of their "nationalist movement"..

 

[abi]

Oh geez. Thanks for proving multiple points here.

Do I really need to start posting all the fake hate vrimes that we know about?

The Jewish people in Canada, America and everywhere else are fine... or were at least prior to the big orange moron's proclamation.

 

[flacaltenn]

How many peace treaties have the Palestinian terrorists broken now? Every single one.

Israel isn’t going to fall for it anymore.

Gaza was the end of appeasement. THAT was the end point of giving land to folks who were not READY to govern and value the peace, well being and prosperity of their people..

Gaza wasnt appeasement. It was a calculated political strategy. Gaza was costing Israel hugely both monetarily and politically. They finally decided it wasnt worth it to protect a handful of Jews.

It wasn't JUST a matter of "protecting a handful of Jews".. As I said in the post above -- it WAS "a recognition and acceptance" of the PA's ability to govern and negotiate. The deal would NEVER have happened if the PA hadn't been able to demonstrate it's willingness to work with the Israelis in law enforcement, civil development, and other areas. They had a semi-reliable PARTNER with which to make peace. And it was a smart move to select Gaza as the "test bunny"..

 

[abi]

It wasn't JUST a matter of "protecting a handful of Jews".. As I said in the post above -- it WAS "a recognition and acceptance" of the PA's ability to govern and negotiate. The deal would NEVER have happened if the PA hadn't been able to demonstrate it's willingness to work with the Israelis in law enforcement, civil development, and other areas. They had a semi-reliable PARTNER with which to make peace. And it was a smart move to select Gaza as the "test bunny"..

Excuse me, but what thread are you on?

 

[flacaltenn]

Please be specific, what are the main goals in th equation of Peace,
what is the situation the day AFTER the solution?

I don't want to go into more detail as peace and what it involves, would take a long time to write for you, it would be very philosophical, and you do much better with simple concepts.

Think 'freedom' and go from there.

Governments PROTECT freedom and liberty. You don't truly have freedom if you don't have rule of law of some minimal amount. Even if that's all ya got Abi -- WHERE are these "free people" gonna live? Will they AGREE to terms of even living together? Etc, etc, etc ......

 

[flacaltenn]

It wasn't JUST a matter of "protecting a handful of Jews".. As I said in the post above -- it WAS "a recognition and acceptance" of the PA's ability to govern and negotiate. The deal would NEVER have happened if the PA hadn't been able to demonstrate it's willingness to work with the Israelis in law enforcement, civil development, and other areas. They had a semi-reliable PARTNER with which to make peace. And it was a smart move to select Gaza as the "test bunny"..

Excuse me, but what thread are you on?

The one that explains "how we end it"... Does it all end in a multicultural march/demonstration?

 

[abi]

The one that explains "how we end it"... Does it all end in a multicultural march/demonstration?

With love.

 

[Lastamender]

The problem when fanatics overrun the argument is that it is easy to become defensive and inflexible protecting your corner against really awfull rhetoric. I find it gets harder to see both sides very well

Do you acknowledge an occupation and settlements?

What do you mean acknowledge? I oppose settlements as a deliberate provocation and obstacle to the peace process

Islam, which is what Israel is dealing with, needs no provocation. People that cannot admit the hate for Jews taught in the Koran and to Palestinian children guarantees no solution will ever be found. Islam will not honor treaties, it is not bound to, also clearly stated in Islamic literature.

Topic isnt Islam. Find another thread to share your hate.

Still, this Hanukkah, a number of synagogues in Canada received startling, genocidal death notes. Our local synagogue also received hate mail this past week.

Many times if not nearly 100% of the time, these crimes are done by zionists. It's sad as hell and then every time they are caught they are just written off as crazy when their real intention was to develop sympathy for Israel.

Oh geez. Thanks for proving multiple points here.

The subject is Islam, that is what drives the hatred of the Jews, among other things that plague Jews everywhere. And there is no hate over here, a very tired false reply to avoid looking at the root cause of almost all the violent conflicts in the world. I am just informing you of the hate in Islam.

 

[flacaltenn]

The one that explains "how we end it"... Does it all end in a multicultural march/demonstration?

With love.

Cool. I love peace. And not wasting generations upon generations to acquire it.

 

[abi]

Cool. I love peace. And not wasting generations upon generations to acquire it.

Right, which is why right now, the best alternative seems to be the immediate right of return followed and free and fair elections.

 

[Shusha]

Cool. I love peace. And not wasting generations upon generations to acquire it.

Right, which is why right now, the best alternative seems to be the immediate right of return followed and free and fair elections.

Boy, THAT would be fun. The immediate right of return for both the Jewish people and the Arab people followed by free and fair elections. Basically a scramble to see who could win the demographics game.

 

[flacaltenn]

Cool. I love peace. And not wasting generations upon generations to acquire it.

Right, which is why right now, the best alternative seems to be the immediate right of return followed and free and fair elections.

Hardly ANY Palestinians want to be Israelit citizens, have Israeli rights or vote in Israeli elections. They need their OWN nation organizing and voting. Go tell them how they are screwing up... Stop badgering us about their failures or support for Islamic extremists.

 

[abi]

Stop badgering us about their failures or support for Islamic extremists.

I don't know why you must demonize them, but for pure hatred.

 

[abi]

Boy, THAT would be fun. The immediate right of return for both the Jewish people and the Arab people followed by free and fair elections. Basically a scramble to see who could win the demographics game.

It wouldn't be fun and international law is clear about one generation.

 

[Hollie]

Cool. I love peace. And not wasting generations upon generations to acquire it.

Right, which is why right now, the best alternative seems to be the immediate right of return followed and free and fair elections.

Free and fair elections in the Islamist dystopia is not really viable. Most democracies / democratic republics are founded upon the model of separation of church and state and are thus at odds with islamist ideology. Democracy is shirk to islamist ideology, (the unforgivable sin of submitting to anything but God). Islam is religion, politics, law, and personal comportment. Everything—complete totalitarianism. I think it’s Impossible to overstate how fiercely resistant the retrograde ideology of Islam is to any sort of revision or reform, and this is its single most intractable impediment to compatibility with the rest of the world. That is the cornerstone of its unyielding intolerance and contempt for all other worldviews.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Defined as a State in which the Jewish people have independence, sovereignty and self-determination, having reconstituted their 3000 year old nation.

Don't play games with the definitions -- the point is acceptance of the Jewish narrative.

HA! Don't play games with the definitions? From you? Listen, Shusha, Jews already have the same rights as everyone else.

I thought you were talking about Israel, as a homeland for the Jewish people, as you do day in and day out.

Israel, yes or no?

Defined as a homeland for the Jewish people in the land known as Palestine since at least 450BC?

Yes or no, abi? If you want to put qualifications on it -- go ahead.

Yes, but....?

As a homeland for the Jewish people in the land known as Palestine since at least 450BC, obviously not.

Jews having self-determination in Palestine might work, though. We don't know yet and it is awkward discussing what the Palestinians would or should accept at this point. Ultimately, there are about 6 million of them yet to return and their land has been carved up to the point that today it looks more like swiss cheese than the land they were forced off of by the zionist regime.

I really hate speaking for these people as I can't begin to understand what a multigenerational occupation does to a people, but I am leaning towards a one state solution based in freedom with equal rights for all.

A voice in the wilderness.