This is how we end it! (solution)

[theliq]

The problem when fanatics overrun the argument is that it is easy to become defensive and inflexible protecting your corner against really awfull rhetoric. I find it gets harder to see both sides very well

Do you acknowledge an occupation and settlements?

What do you mean acknowledge? I oppose settlements as a deliberate provocation and obstacle to the peace process

Islam, which is what Israel is dealing with, needs no provocation. People that cannot admit the hate for Jews taught in the Koran and to Palestinian children guarantees no solution will ever be found. Islam will not honor treaties, it is not bound to, also clearly stated in Islamic literature.

Topic isnt Islam. Find another thread to share your hate.

Still, this Hanukkah, a number of synagogues in Canada received startling, genocidal death notes. Our local synagogue also received hate mail this past week.

Many times if not nearly 100% of the time, these crimes are done by zionists. It's sad as hell and then every time they are caught they are just written off as crazy when their real intention was to develop sympathy for Israel.

Oh geez. Thanks for proving multiple points here.

The subject is Islam, that is what drives the hatred of the Jews, among other things that plague Jews everywhere. And there is no hate over here, a very tired false reply to avoid looking at the root cause of almost all the violent conflicts in the world. I am just informing you of the hate in Islam.

But what you fail to mention is that it is the Christians who despised the Jews the most and attempted to EXTERMINATE the Jewish peoples....moreover it was the Muslims who gave them shelter in Spain (Moors) and in Constantinople(Istanbul)....Jews were in all Muslim Countries in history,,,this stopped in most Arabic countries after 1948...In this season of Goodwill,you are behaving like a CRUD......It was the Christians....Today some extremist Muslims use Israel/Jews for their own failings because some are stupid others nasty.....But to counter balance YOUR comments...The Zionists demand the end of the Palestinians and decree in their manifesto "TO DRIVE ALL PALESTINIANS INTO THE SEA" EXTERMINATE THEM

You have NO MORAL HIGH GROUND TO CRITISIZE....because as a ZIONIST you are actually the worst of the lot....and sickeningly obsequious with it.YOU BOASTING PHARISEE..YOU'LL NEVER CONQUER ME OR THE WONDERFUL PALESTINIAN NATION.........HIM THELIQ

 

[Indeependent]

Israel was the aggressor; which it was not.

Lie.

Of course Israel was the aggressor. Even before '48 zionist terrorists had been on a murderous rampage. The terrorists became Israel's first government. The zionists brought their war of aggression from another continent and it has never stopped.

I cant find the source at the moment but I recall reading that Israel was in fact trying to provoke Nasser into attacking. So they arent quite so innocent as their victors narrative implies. I will see if i can find the source.

Because Israel has to provoke hostilities.

Because jews have to provoke hostilities.

there fixed it for ya

The only thing that needs fixing is your ability to procreate.

 

[Indeependent]

Do you acknowledge an occupation and settlements?

What do you mean acknowledge? I oppose settlements as a deliberate provocation and obstacle to the peace process

Islam, which is what Israel is dealing with, needs no provocation. People that cannot admit the hate for Jews taught in the Koran and to Palestinian children guarantees no solution will ever be found. Islam will not honor treaties, it is not bound to, also clearly stated in Islamic literature.

Topic isnt Islam. Find another thread to share your hate.

Still, this Hanukkah, a number of synagogues in Canada received startling, genocidal death notes. Our local synagogue also received hate mail this past week.

Many times if not nearly 100% of the time, these crimes are done by zionists. It's sad as hell and then every time they are caught they are just written off as crazy when their real intention was to develop sympathy for Israel.

Oh geez. Thanks for proving multiple points here.

The subject is Islam, that is what drives the hatred of the Jews, among other things that plague Jews everywhere. And there is no hate over here, a very tired false reply to avoid looking at the root cause of almost all the violent conflicts in the world. I am just informing you of the hate in Islam.

But what you fail to mention is that it is the Christians who despised the Jews the most and attempted to EXTERMINATE the Jewish peoples....moreover it was the Muslims who gave them shelter in Spain (Moors) and in Constantinople(Istanbul)....Jews were in all Muslim Countries in history,,,this stopped in most Arabic countries after 1948...In this season of Goodwill,you are behaving like a CRUD......It was the Christians....Today some extremist Muslims use Israel/Jews for their own failings because some are stupid others nasty.....But to counter balance YOUR comments...The Zionists demand the end of the Palestinians and decree in their manifesto "TO DRIVE ALL PALESTINIANS INTO THE SEA" EXTERMINATE THEM

You have NO MORAL HIGH GROUND TO CRITISIZE....because as a ZIONIST you are actually the worst of the lot....and sickeningly obsequious with it.YOU BOASTING PHARISEE..YOU'LL NEVER CONQUER ME OR THE WONDERFUL PALESTINIAN NATION.........HIM THELIQ

Pay Muslim Tax or die.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: This is how we end it! (solution)
※→ Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, I guess this was right.

• When did the Israelis commit the last act of contemporary terrorism?
• What was it?

As long as Israel needs to maintain a presence in the occupied territories as a requirement to to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,

Killing people, stealing land, and demolishing homes is restoring and ensuring public order and safety?

Rocco, you are a hoot.

I agree, the policy of destroying the homes of terrorists famies is way wrong.

I have yet to a Jewish terrorists home destroyed and his famimy left homeless.

(COMMENT)

Providing material support to terrorists is an offense in itself. Confiscation and forfeiture of property, holdings and other materials of value is done all the time (almost everyday) in the US and other nations. It is a philosophy that proceeds of crime should be forfeited and the criminal should not benefit from criminal activity.

In the US, it is most often seen as the forfeiture of property (may include but not limited to homes, warehouses, boats, vehicles and aircraft ... etc) for tax liabilities, drug smuggling, illicit trade in weapons (SALW)/explosives, human trafficking, AND other criminal activity. Under Article 8, International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism, have included similar duties - covering all the general assets one might might expect to find in an omnibus anti-crime package tailored to terrorism and related activities.

In the last decade, most of what the Arab Palestinians call Israeli terrorism centers on casualties resulting from ignoring:

• Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.
• Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​

This allegation often is coupled with the complaint that the Israelis fight back too hard and that the use of deadly force is more effective than that used by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that launch attacks --- operating within or near densely populated areas; or --- where the HoAP essential failed to remove or relocate civilian persons and objects away from the vicinity of HoAP targetable activities; which is the HoAP attempting to utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points immune from retaliatory strikes due to proximity.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

RE: This is how we end it! (solution)
※→ Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, I guess this was right.

• When did the Israelis commit the last act of contemporary terrorism?
• What was it?

As long as Israel needs to maintain a presence in the occupied territories as a requirement to to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,

Killing people, stealing land, and demolishing homes is restoring and ensuring public order and safety?

Rocco, you are a hoot.

I agree, the policy of destroying the homes of terrorists famies is way wrong.

I have yet to a Jewish terrorists home destroyed and his famimy left homeless.

(COMMENT)

Providing material support to terrorists is an offense in itself. Confiscation and forfeiture of property, holdings and other materials of value is done all the time (almost everyday) in the US and other nations. It is a philosophy that proceeds of crime should be forfeited and the criminal should not benefit from criminal activity.

In the US, it is most often seen as the forfeiture of property (may include but not limited to homes, warehouses, boats, vehicles and aircraft ... etc) for tax liabilities, drug smuggling, illicit trade in weapons (SALW)/explosives, human trafficking, AND other criminal activity. Under Article 8, International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism, have included similar duties - covering all the general assets one might might expect to find in an omnibus anti-crime package tailored to terrorism and related activities.

In the last decade, most of what the Arab Palestinians call Israeli terrorism centers on casualties resulting from ignoring:

• Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.
• Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​

This allegation often is coupled with the complaint that the Israelis fight back too hard and that the use of deadly force is more effective than that used by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that launch attacks --- operating within or near densely populated areas; or --- where the HoAP essential failed to remove or relocate civilian persons and objects away from the vicinity of HoAP targetable activities; which is the HoAP attempting to utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points immune from retaliatory strikes due to proximity.

Most Respectfully,
R

Well you asked when they committed the last act of contemporary terrorism - the most notable recently have been these:
the kidnapping and subsequent burning alive of a Palestinian teenager
the firebombing of a Palestinian house, killing most of the family sleeping inside.

 

[Coyote]

There is no other Jewish state. No other safe place.

The does not need to be a Jewish state in Palestine any more than a Christian one in China.

Jews are very safe, even thriving in many countries this world over.

You mention not understanding how people can live under generations of occupation. Likewise I fond it also hard to understand how people can live through a concentration camp. Do you?

Yes, horrible, be serious.

Jews are not very safe. Look at their history of persecution and the rise of antisemitism around the world. The holocaust is still in LIVING memory. They are a very small minority and easily scapegoated. How many countries refused to take in Jews in ww2? Until it was too late? If I were Jewish it would be hard to put that behind me and trust in the good will of people who once hared me and could again in times of trouble. They have a right to a homeland. So do the Palestinians. There is enough room for all you know.

As most of you know, I live in Canada. Canada is a very safe, accepting, multi-cultural county. (Far from perfect, there is lots of work to be done still. But generally safe.)

Still, this Hanukkah, a number of synagogues in Canada received startling, genocidal death notes. Our local synagogue also received hate mail this past week. It is impossible to put behind us the atrocities of the past while they are still being called for.

(Though that didn't stop us from having a party in the city square last night).

FREE AT LAST! Well not exactly but now I'm on my computer not my phone and can type quickly with out such an overload of misplaced keystrokes. Groups who are minorities with a long history of scapegoating in an area are always at risk by cowards who lives are so small they feel the need to strike out. It shouldn't be minimized. Hell - when it's Muslims in the US - it's minimized or they somehow "deserve it". It's the same with Jews only now they deserve it because of the "Zionists". The claim that it's actually being done by "Zionists" to gain sympathy is another pathetic argument. There are always a few individuals who perpetrate false attacks for attention but they are a minority.

 

[Coyote]

What do you mean acknowledge? I oppose settlements as a deliberate provocation and obstacle to the peace process

I mean that Shusha denies their existence and claims there is no occupation.

Denies what existence?

 

[Coyote]

How can you inderstand their mindset if you exclude the holocaust?

I understand the mindset; believe me. I went to Hebrew school for years. But constantly bringing up what Germans did and then using that tragedy to lay another on the Palestinian people is morally reprehensible.

How is that different then bringing up Nakba?

 

[Coyote]

Still, this Hanukkah, a number of synagogues in Canada received startling, genocidal death notes. Our local synagogue also received hate mail this past week.

Many times if not nearly 100% of the time, these crimes are done by zionists. It's sad as hell and then every time they are caught they are just written off as crazy when their real intention was to develop sympathy for Israel.

That is false.

 

[Coyote]

Please be specific, what are the main goals in th equation of Peace,
what is the situation the day AFTER the solution?

I don't want to go into more detail as peace and what it involves, would take a long time to write for you, it would be very philosophical, and you do much better with simple concepts.

Think 'freedom' and go from there.

Governments PROTECT freedom and liberty. You don't truly have freedom if you don't have rule of law of some minimal amount. Even if that's all ya got Abi -- WHERE are these "free people" gonna live? Will they AGREE to terms of even living together? Etc, etc, etc ......

Absolutely. They need to protect everyone's freedom and liberty...and rights.

 

[Coyote]

Cool. I love peace. And not wasting generations upon generations to acquire it.

Right, which is why right now, the best alternative seems to be the immediate right of return followed and free and fair elections.

Free and fair elections in the Islamist dystopia is not really viable. Most democracies / democratic republics are founded upon the model of separation of church and state and are thus at odds with islamist ideology. Democracy is shirk to islamist ideology, (the unforgivable sin of submitting to anything but God). Islam is religion, politics, law, and personal comportment. Everything—complete totalitarianism. I think it’s Impossible to overstate how fiercely resistant the retrograde ideology of Islam is to any sort of revision or reform, and this is its single most intractable impediment to compatibility with the rest of the world. That is the cornerstone of its unyielding intolerance and contempt for all other worldviews.

Oh bullshit. Israel is struggling with exactly that issue.

 

[abi]

It's the same with Jews only now they deserve it because of the "Zionists".

Sir, with all due respect, Jews are not zionists. There are 50 million Christian zionists in America alone. THAT IS MORE THAN ALL THE JEWS ON THE PLANET BY 35 MILLION. Please stop making this false charge and focus on the issues at hand.

There are always a few individuals who perpetrate false attacks for attention but they are a minority.

These stats are tough to come by; have a link?

 

[Coyote]

Thus far I haven't heard a peep on how a one-state solution would protect a minority's right and lives in the Middle East.

 

[Coyote]

It's the same with Jews only now they deserve it because of the "Zionists".

Sir, with all due respect, Jews are not zionists. There are 50 million Christian zionists in America alone. THAT IS MORE THAN ALL THE JEWS ON THE PLANET BY 35 MILLION. Please stop making this false charge and focus on the issues at hand.

There are always a few individuals who perpetrate false attacks for attention but they are a minority.

These stats are tough to come by; have a link?

Yes they are...however, out of the many that have occurred I only recall less then a handful that were false.

 

[abi]

How is that different then bringing up Nakba?

Look at what you just quoted and tell me,

 

[abi]

Yes they are...however, out of the many that have occurred I only recall less then a handful that were false.

So, you first state it as fact and now you admit it was a guess?

 

[Coyote]

How is that different then bringing up Nakba?

Look at what you just quoted and tell me,

Answer the question.

 

[Coyote]

Yes they are...however, out of the many that have occurred I only recall less then a handful that were false.

So, you first state it as fact and now you admit it was a guess?

Can YOU support your claim?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: This is how we end it! (solution)
※→ Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, I guess this was right.

• When did the Israelis commit the last act of contemporary terrorism?
• What was it?

As long as Israel needs to maintain a presence in the occupied territories as a requirement to to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,

Killing people, stealing land, and demolishing homes is restoring and ensuring public order and safety?

Rocco, you are a hoot.

I agree, the policy of destroying the homes of terrorists famies is way wrong.

I have yet to a Jewish terrorists home destroyed and his famimy left homeless.

(COMMENT)

Providing material support to terrorists is an offense in itself. Confiscation and forfeiture of property, holdings and other materials of value is done all the time (almost everyday) in the US and other nations. It is a philosophy that proceeds of crime should be forfeited and the criminal should not benefit from criminal activity.

In the US, it is most often seen as the forfeiture of property (may include but not limited to homes, warehouses, boats, vehicles and aircraft ... etc) for tax liabilities, drug smuggling, illicit trade in weapons (SALW)/explosives, human trafficking, AND other criminal activity. Under Article 8, International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism, have included similar duties - covering all the general assets one might might expect to find in an omnibus anti-crime package tailored to terrorism and related activities.

In the last decade, most of what the Arab Palestinians call Israeli terrorism centers on casualties resulting from ignoring:

• Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.
• Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​

This allegation often is coupled with the complaint that the Israelis fight back too hard and that the use of deadly force is more effective than that used by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that launch attacks --- operating within or near densely populated areas; or --- where the HoAP essential failed to remove or relocate civilian persons and objects away from the vicinity of HoAP targetable activities; which is the HoAP attempting to utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points immune from retaliatory strikes due to proximity.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign crap?

 

[Coyote]

It's the same with Jews only now they deserve it because of the "Zionists".

Sir, with all due respect, Jews are not zionists. There are 50 million Christian zionists in America alone. THAT IS MORE THAN ALL THE JEWS ON THE PLANET BY 35 MILLION. Please stop making this false charge and focus on the issues at hand.

There are always a few individuals who perpetrate false attacks for attention but they are a minority.

These stats are tough to come by; have a link?

Here's the thing Abi - instead of demonizing groups - like "Zionists" - attack policies. Political policies. Israel is a nation. If you disagree with concrete policies and actions - like with any other nation - attack that.